Army seeks to identify whistleblowers who gave torture photos to the 'Mirr

Military police investigating claims of British troops torturing an Iraqi prisoner believe photographs of two "whistleblowing" soldiers could help to uncover the truth.

Defence sources say that although the photographs in the Daily Mirror yesterday of the soldiers who supplied the newspaper with the original images of the alleged torture are pixellated, the background of the shots could well lead to their identification.

Establishing their identity would help military authorities to work out exactly where and when the photographs were taken, and by whom.

A spokeswoman for the newspaper would not comment on claims that the two soldiers, from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment (QLR), were paid for the photographs, or that the newspaper had made up to £120,000 from syndicating them.

~snip~

more:http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/story.jsp?story=517942

If you know what I mean.

I see...

And yes they are correct, these are the photos that will
loose the war.

Before this broke there was a chance, slight, but still a chance
of actually doing some good out of this tragedy.

Forget it now...

that the British pictures are fake.

The most credible thing going towards their "fakery" is that suposedly the rifles in the photos are the SA-80 Mark 1, and British military issue is the SA-80 Mark 2. If this is true, then the pictures are faked, since no British troops still have the old Mark 1s.

This would be the eqivalent of a picture purporting to show US troops abusing Iraqis with viet-nam era M-16s, instead of the M-16A2 or M-4 Carbine which is current issue, or a picture of US troops in Iraq driving around in the old style Jeep, instead of the Hummer.

In this article quoting the soldiers in question

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14205031%26method=full%26siteid=50143%26headline=squaddie%2dabuse%2dwitnesses%2d%2dwe%2dtold%2dthe%2dtruth-name_page.html

It seems to me that it addresses most of the nitpicky accusations about the photos veracity.

The A2 mostly has internal modifications. With the angle in the pictures, it's virtually impossible to tell what they're using.

they had these really tacky triangular-shaped foregrips, along with a "birdcage" 3-pronged flash supressor. The M-16A2 and M-4 carbine don't.

It's practically impossible to confuse a M-16 that was standard issue in 1970 with a current issue M-16A2 or M-4 in a picture if the foregrips and flash supressors are pictured.

I was talking about the SA80A1 vs A2. The various M16 updates are easily recognizable.

shows a inverted round metal charging handle, which was one of the pieces retrofitted by the Hechler and Koch Gmbh rework to make the SA80A2. The A2 has a beefed-up teardrop-shaped plastic-capped charging handle, which has no hollowed out portion.

Given the fact that the original style charging handle was prone to failure (with the obviously disasterous result of being unable to charge the weapon if it breaks, which is very, very, VERY bad in combat...) and is an externally visible object in the photo, I'd really like an explanation as to why an obsolete (and withdrawn from service) charging handle was in use before I write off the possible fakery.

It's possible that the photos are genuine. It's also possible that they're faked. I'd like more facts before I make a decision.

,..until I regained civy status. I might do a LOT of anonymous stuff. But, I would not open myself to the persecutors.

Sorry,...I am just NOT so brave as to OUT myself into punishment.

Been there, done that,...got f-ed.

What ever the reason for the photos at the onset, turning them over to someone who could do something about it should be protected at all costs.

Just like the little girl that got scorched by Napalm in Nam, these are the photos that show how things are going or are not going. They can say all they want, one picture can make or destroy thousands of words over and over.

Even now they wish to maybe even destroy the witnesses even though the evidence is already out, and in effect the ideas behind some of these people's thinking.

The effect of witness tampering being crime in the US for obvious reasons, this will not this be flowered over by people wanting to protect their bacon, other people will bring the testimony

It's the GOP way to toast the person that blows the whistle, and give the perps a promotion and a raise.

Up is down.
Down is up.
Wrong is right.
Right is wrong.
Jesus is Rambo.
Jesus DOESN'T love poor people.
George bush lives in the white house.

We're living in the twilight zone.

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

Let me just tell you though, they are going to be wishing they were in the twilight zone when reality hits them where it counts.

Please don't make the mistake of missing to what happens to a boiling pot when the lid is clamped shut. It's predictable as the sun coming up tomorrow morning

"One of the bad effects of an anti-intellectual philosophy is that thrives upon the errors and confusions of the intellect. Hence it is led to prefer bad thinking to good, to declare every momentary difficulty insoluble, and to regard every foolish mistake as revealing the bankruptcy of intellect and the triumph of intuition. -Bertrand Russel"

http://www.miniluv.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=471

Yeah, right.

LONDON – MPs called for Daily Mirror editor Piers Morgan to resign if photographs appearing to show Iraqis being tortured by British troops turn out to be fakes.

Morgan could face being quizzed by MPs about his decision to publish the photographs, which critics claim are putting the lives of British soldiers in Iraq at risk.

Labour MP Janet Anderson said Morgan should resign as editor if they proved to be fake. Another Labour MP Mark Hendrick said last night that if the photographs proved not to be real, the Mirror would become known as the "dodgy daily".

In a statement to the House of Commons last night armed forces minister Adam Ingram told MPs that "no stone would be left unturned" in the investigation into the pictures. He also raised the concern that the paper had put lives on the line.

"There is always the question of lives being put at risk because of what might prove to be unfounded allegations," Ingram said.

~snip~

http://www.brandrepublic.com/mediabulletin/news_story.cfm?articleID=209825&Origin=MB05052004

Piers Morgan is a prick, those photos contain serious anomalies that have not been addressed adequately. If fake those photos are endangering lives. It also means that real photos of actual abuses will be easily dismissed.

Piers Morgan would do well to remember that Britain has a highly skilled secret service that is well placed to fit people up. They've done for better people than him.

from BBC

"The newspaper says the sources for its photos are two members of the regiment who are standing by their account of what happened."

If that is accurate then it seems to me that the Mirror are already admitting that the photos are fake.

WARNING!!!: I must profess I am not familiar with this website and it does have banners advertising books by G Gordon Liddy and Ann Coulter. Don't shoot me, I just Googled it up!

That being said, I'm fairly certain the Mirror pics are fakes. That was my first impression when I saw them. The whole thing just looks too clean. The shot of the guy getting it in the groin doesn't show any kind of motion and the victim doesn't seem to be reacting to a blow. Something doesn't add up.

I've also read that the victim's T-shirt portrays a pre-1988 Iraqi flag although it seems to be relatively new.

Compare this to the U.S. photos which are most certainly genuine. They've got the grainy, slightly out of focus quality that you'd expect from amateur photographers in a dark setting.

Anyhoo, here's the link. Don't say I didn't warn you. And don't buy any Gordon Liddy books!!!

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/news2004/0504/050404-abuse.htm

If the WMD justification turns out to be fake. I claim the invasion has put the lives of British soldiers (and many others) at risk. If the justification for war turns out to be fake, the government will be known as the "dodgy government". No stone should be left unturned in the investigation into the WMD. I am concerned that the invasion has put lives on the line.

"There is always the question of lives being put at risk because of what might prove to be unfounded allegations," I say.

THE government has taken a balanced and responsible position on the Mirror's revelations about British soldiers attacking an Iraqi prisoner.

Defence minister Adam Ingram insisted in the Commons that no stone would be left unturned to get at the truth. We could ask for nothing more.

There is hardly a more serious charge that could be made against our troops than that some of them brutalised, abused and beat a captive.

Yet that is what two squaddies from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment said about a rogue element among their comrades.

Controversy has raged over the pictures they provided. Doubting journalists and ex-servicemen have been queuing up to get on the airways to discredit them.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14210806%26method=full%26siteid=50143%26headline=our%2dsources%2dwill%2dnever%2dbe%2dhanded%2dover-name_page.html

I wonder if a 10 year old could figure out the difference of the media using a secret source to expose illegal/immoral activity as opposed to Novak using a secret source to expose someone who never did anything immoral/illegal and actually put in danger of assassination many undercover CIA agents. I wonder if Limbaugh has enough brain cells to figure that out?