Iraqi cleric defies US troops, taunts over abuse

than the leaders of my own party. This cleric knows how to stand up to a bully.

edit: looked at your profile, and you're not a "brother!"

then it's clearly not "your party".


You don't know very much about Mr. Sadr and his movement, do you?

and I feel the same (barring a couple irreconciliable differences).

like - the establishment of a theocracy? The subjugation of women? the establishment of Shia law?

http://www.memri.de/uebersetzungen_analysen/laender/persischer_golf/irak_sadr_11_02_04.html

Shallow cliches complimented by the Zionist MEMRI.. which isn't too ghastly of a bio considering the source, despite leaving out much and passing on lies. Some of the author's other pieces, in the Zionist-"Neocon" Frontpagemag for example, betray his orientation.

No.. the irreconciliable differences mostly center on my entirely disinterested agnosticism. My thoughts on the matter would rather be atheism if the subject interested me, but it just doesn't.

As far as 'temporal' politics go there is some common ground there with me, and I have come to admire his handling of an extremely difficult and traumatizing situation (to say nothing of what came before). The weight of all that was thrust upon he and his wife would've crushed practically anybody, yet he is still standing.

What do you call whoosh*'s dream world? "christian" "democracy" ...

They were *promised* "freedom", "liberty", "democracy" - ie self-governance. As long as it is "christian" "democracy" ..

Shia law is the antithesis to democracy, and *I* do not support it any more than "christian" "democracy".

Thinking that we could export a western style democracy into that part of the world borders on insane. And while a significant number of Iraqi's supported the overthrow of Hussein, it's not like they had much say in our invasion, or it's aftermath. Promises backed by the barrel of a gun always ring hollow, whether from Hussein , the Coalition, or even Moqtada Al-Sadr.

but the fact is, when *they* speak of "bringing Sadr to justice*, they use terms like "being held accountable to Ira*qi law". And, in fact, there is NO such thing in existence. It smacks loudly of making excuses to imprison/kill political dissenters. You DO know who signed his *arrest warrant*, don't you?

Its like Andersonville Prison

Prisoners stand near overflowing wash water in their compound at the Abu Ghraib Prison on the outskirts of Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites) Friday, May 7, 2004. Controversy continues surrounding the treatment of the prisoners last year, when photos were taken showing abuse by American soldiers.(AP Photo/John Moore)

Confederate prison for Union soldiers -

....

Inside, about 19 feet from the wall, was the " DEADLINE ," which the prisoners were forbidden to cross upon threat of death. Flowing through the prison yard was a stream called Stockade Branch, which supplied water to most of the prison.

....

http://www.angelfire.com/ga2/Andersonvilleprison/

....

Temperatures when prisoners began arriving in December 1863 were below 0 and sanitation was deplorable due to the overcrowding. Disease broke out swiftly, including a smallpox epidemic which killed hundreds of prisoners in the first few months of the prison's existence. Prisoners were buried next to the prison. In the spring of 1864, the bodies of dead prisoners were moved, a hospital built, and sewers installed. These measures improved health conditions tremendously and ended the smallpox epidemic.

In June 1864, the government ordered rations to be cut at Rock Island, in response to the treatment of Union prisoners at Andersonville. Malnutrition and scurvy resulted from these orders contributing to the death toll of Confederate prisoners at Rock Island Prison.

....

http://www.censusdiggins.com/prison_rock_island.html

From web page for a book about these prisons; the page has many links.

....

Poverty, which plagued England during the eighteenth Century, resulted in rampart crime. For almost a century the British Government had relied on a policy of shipping hundreds of convicted criminals each year to the North American colonies. "Out of sight, out of mind" was an apt adage for this policy. The system worked, after a fashion, until 1776 when the rebellious American colonies chose to no longer serve as a dumping ground for British convicts. Once again England had an excess of convicted "criminals," (many of them driven by hunger and desperation to committing minor offences.) What was to be done with the multitudes of unfortunate people continuing to be sentenced to transportation in the criminal courts of Great Britain?

The Intolerable Hulks provides a vivid, meticulously documented account of Great Britain's approach to solving the problem- by conversion of old merchantmen and deactivated naval vessels into prisons. These deplorable dungeons-at-anchor in the waters of southern England came to be known late in the eighteenth century as "the Hulks." They were first viewed as a "temporary expedient" but events and circumstances (including the apathy of the British government) resulted in the wretched old vessels' being used as prisons for eighty years.

Hardly less feared by the British criminal class than were the gallows, confinement on the hulks became a dreaded purgatory to be endured for months- sometimes years- by prisoners destined for eventual transport to Australia. The island continent was ripe for a melancholy sort of colonization by those people no longer wanted at home.



http://intolerablehulks.com/

Report from inspection in 1836 -

....

Here were associated together the convicted and the untried, the felon and the misdemeanant, the sane and the insane, the old and young offender. it will be seen that all the classes, which are required by the Gaol Act to be kept distinct, ("care being taken that prisoners of those classes do not intermix with each other,") are here confounded together; and, as if to increase the evil, and to show a greater contempt for the law, there is also added the insane.

In ward No. 10 we found that the wardsman, a convicted prisoner, owned all the bedding, the crockery ware, the knives. forks, kettles and saucepans for the use of which each prisoner pays him 2s. 6d. per week. The above-mentioned articles are purchased for the purpose by the wardsman, upon his appointment to his situation. who was wardsman until a few days ago in this ward (No. 10), paid, on his appointment, £3. 10s. The present wardsman, has as yet paid nothing; but if he continues in his situation he will do so, and will receive from the prisoners the usual weekly pay. In this ward, in consequence of the high demand of money for extra accommodations, such as are considered the most decent and respectable of the prisoners are usually placed; and it appeared to us, that as many as were able to pay the sum required, readily found admission into it.

....



http://www.adw03.dial.pipex.com/peel/laworder/prison.htm

Thanks so much for posting this information. Yes, all you say is true

What glares out at me is how little of this anyone knows. I know it because in a former life I was a teacher.

I'm not sure the Chimp knows any of this. Maybe Andersonville, but that's probably it

And he and his minions are running a Modern Day Charnel House right under the Noses of AMERIKA. But not the World. It will take 50 years to live this WAR CRIME down.
The Iraqi People will curse the U.S. Stormtroopers, for as long as the elderly Ghetto survivors deride the S.S. Stormtroopers.

The commandant of Andersonville was hung. I believe he was a Swiss emigre.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

about US treatment of prisoners, 60% just picked up off the streets.

Those 4 were private contractors; private contractors were quite active participants in the torture.

...apologize for invading and occupying their country and leave. How do you great someone kicking your front door in? Do you throw flowers at them and start dancing in the streets because you are so happy? :crazy:
Don

1. Al-Sadr did not perpetrate the attacks on the Blackwater employees and their corpses. He did not incite people to commit those acts. He doesn't owe you or me or Jerry Bremer or anybody else an apology for that.

2. Yes, regrets and apologies for the mutilations of the Blackwater corpses have been expressed by Iraqis. In fact, Iraqi civic leaders and clerics joined in condemning the atrocious treatment of those corpses, including prominent figures in Falluja. That apology was not accepted by Bremer or his superiors, who instead sought retribution and were not satisfied until more than 700 Fallujans had been killed, most of them unarmed noncombatants.

Wrong city.

If you are going to condemn al-Sadr, at least get the most major of facts correct.

The four Blackwater contractors were killed in Fallujah by insurgents, then their bodies were mutliated by a mob of Sunni's, Fallujah being a Sunni town. During this time, al-Sadr was in Sadr City, a suburb of Baghdad. Since al-Sadr is a Shiite cleric, and since the contractors were killed by Sunni's not aligned to him, the chances are next to none that al-Sadr had anything to do with the contractors.

Get the facts straight before you run off at the mouth. It's just embarrassing.

I was reading an article recently wjhere the author claimed 50% of the people (Read Sheeple) still believe Sadaam took down the Twin Towers.