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U.S. Faces Lasting Damage Abroad - Moral High Ground Lost, Experts Say

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:16 PM
Original message
U.S. Faces Lasting Damage Abroad - Moral High Ground Lost, Experts Say
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7139-2004May6.html

The United States faces the prospect of a severe and enduring backlash not just in the Middle East but also among strategic allies, putting in question the Bush administration's ability to make serious headway on a range of foreign policy goals for the rest of this presidential term, according to U.S. officials and foreign policy experts.

The White House damage-control campaign, including the long-awaited apology from President Bush yesterday, is likely to have only limited, if any, success in the near term, administration officials said yesterday.

The White House is so gloomy about the repercussions that senior adviser Karl Rove suggested this week that the consequences of the graphic photographs documenting the U.S. abuse of Iraqi detainees are so enormous that it will take decades for the United States to recover, according to a Bush adviser.

"It's a blinding glimpse of the obvious to say we're in a hole," conceded Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage. He said the backlash in Europe is even greater than in the 22-nation Arab world.

more

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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Like we ever had moral high ground...
We lost that as soon as we invaded Iraq.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. exactly..
Edited on Fri May-07-04 08:24 PM by Postman
invasion was the end of any moral high-ground
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Ironpost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Maybe
we lost the moral high ground when the scotus selected cowbow.
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
35. Maybe
Maybe we lost the high ground when Zbigniew Brzezinski convinced Carter to go forward with the Afghan Trap, where we aided and abetted actions that goaded the USSR into invading Afghanistan; or when Reagan armed the Contras to destabilize Nicaragua and bring down the Sandinistas; or when GHWB's marines killed thousands of Panamanian citizens in order to get "narco-terrorist" and Hitler du jour Manual Noriega behind bars.

Iraq? Business as usual. I mean, the facade has slipped, but that might be because maintaining it is just no longer that important.


The illusion of freedom in America will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre.
---Frank Zappa

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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. We lost it when we allowed Bush* and his fascist gang to
steal their way into the White House. :argh:
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
22. Bush's Legacy.
America a pariah state. History will not be kind to those responsible for this disgrace known as the George W. Bush administration.
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Leezamarie Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. You lost it when Bill Clinton bombed Belgrade
and even then you didn't really have it to lose.
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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. We lost it when Columbus landed on Plymouth Rock...


Come on, Leezamarie...get real. America wasn't loved, but we are talking about degree of hatred, and Bush has brought it to a whole new level. Belgrade was a NATO operation..."they" don't hate us because of the Bosnian conflict.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. We lost moral high ground the minute Bush entered the WH.nt
Edited on Fri May-07-04 09:31 PM by Tellurian
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. Poetic justice: * stoked his approval ratings by exploiting
Edited on Fri May-07-04 09:51 PM by stopbush
America's self-delusional myths (patriotism, morality, godliness).

Now, with every new revelation, the myths fall embarrassingly away, leaving the bushies clinging desperately to their own hubris and the general ignorance of their most rabid base as their remaining shred of credibility shrivels in the light of truth.
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fishnfla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. The photos are just a symbol of the foreign policy disaster
they have wrought upon our country. Glad Rove can see what a clusterf88k they've created

I swear, ol' shrub, he must be snakebit.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. "moral high ground" my lilly white ass!!!!
Edited on Fri May-07-04 08:26 PM by mike_c
The U.S. has not occupied the "moral high ground" since before the Cold War. Ask the mothers of the disappeared in Central and South America what they think of America's moral high ground. Ask the maimed and burned in Southeast Asia. Ask the Palestinians, who've borne the major brunt of U.S. middle eastern policy for fifty years.

America's "moral high ground" is an illusion, or more to the point, a self-delusion.

Abu Ghraib is nothing new. It's business as usual in America's 50 year war on poor brown people, now expanded to include Islamic people generally. If anything, it represents the baring of long existing truths. It's been going on IN OUR NAMES for decades.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Too true, unfortunately
I have also come to the conclusion that most of the U.S. (and western world in general) posturing about morality over the course of my life has been propaganda, delusion, and hypocrisy. This latest fiasco is just so bald faced that there is no hiding from the truth this time.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. THE SCHOOL OF THE AMERICAS
Not exactly where civics on the MORAL HIGH GROUND IS TAUGHT.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. Yes!
Recent loss of high moral ground: 200,000 Guatemalean Indians killed under Ray-gun and guess who was around: Negroponte!
Read A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn and find out about earlier losses of high moral ground. Or if you like things in novel form and even earlier losses of high moral ground Gore Vidal's Empire, etc. etc.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. SCHOOL OF THE AMERIKAS
were torture, like what went on at ABU GHRAIB is elevated to a HIGH SCIENCE
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. I agree 100% (n/t)
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. The US needs to purge itself of its poison.
A start will be cleansing the White House of Bush in November. But only a start. The poison of the parasitic National Security State has been pooling for 50 years. But only now is there enough of it that it could kill the host.

If in six months, by whatever means, Bush claims victory, America is finished. Her fall will be great, and she could take the whole world down with her.
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. im a little uncomfortable
with the terms purge and cleansing. we need to vote out the people in power and we need to start some serious investigations into what has happened as a result of their policies and if those investigations lead to evidence of criminal behavior than those responsible should be prosecuted.

these are the things that make the united states a great country. i understand your anger but what you are saying is actually very frightening.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
8. i think Europe would be happy to see a regime change now. thrilled, even.
hopping up and down on one foot and squealing with glee, probably.
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Enduring Backlash" - the New American Century
.
.
.

Only one thing would save the US from decades of disgrace and humiliation.

That would be for the immediate removal of Bush and all his gang from the WH,

and complete withdrawl from Iraq.

No, I am under no illusion that this is even a considered possibility.

Therefore the US will remain a pariah in the eyes of the world for decades, if not longer.

Another 6 months of this Administration is not acceptable to the world,

The world does not care about fancy words and legalese posturing,

Heads must roll, quickly

But they won't . .

(sigh)
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Nashyra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It will only get worse if the asshole is elected
notice I did not say re-elected. Right now most of the world does not despise "the American people" just the *. If he is elected watch out.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. The ONLY CHANCE the US Has For Any Sort of Redemption
Is to get rid of these thugs and prosecute them. I fear that if we merely vote them out it will not be nearly enough. And even if we do prosecute them, it may still not be enough. One only knows what will happen if they are allowed to steal another election.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. The wording of that first paragraph is interesting
snip>

... putting in question the Bush administration's ability to make serious headway on a range of foreign policy goals for the rest of this presidential term...

snip>

Along with the very dire tone of the rest of the article, it sounds as if they are cutting Bush* loose.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. You are right
will we see Bush and Chenney refuse to run for a second term?
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AtTheEndOfTheDay Donating Member (454 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. "Headway on a range of foreign policy goals"
Perhaps the only good thing about this massive fuck up is that asshole's goals have become unattainable
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. Like we needed experts to tell us that.
The admin made yet another mistake by playing up the liberation argument. People actually expected it.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
17. ITS LEAKING OUT-----ANAL RAPE OF CHILDREN
Rumsfeld did not describe the photos, but U.S. military officials told NBC News that the unreleased images showed U.S. soldiers severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi female prisoner and “acting inappropriately with a dead body.” The officials said there was also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4855930/

SCREWED IN THE RECTUM WHILE MILTARY GUARDS STOOD AND WATCHED. CHILDREN SCREAMING AS THEY WERE SODOMIZED.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. Oh please we have not been on the moral high ground for over fifty years
and not even then. This rah, rah crap is long past due to end. I am so glad America is being forced to accept the reality of her deeds. It is the only thing that MIGHT save her.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
20. This line bothers me...
"The White House is so gloomy about the repercussions that senior adviser Karl Rove suggested this week that the consequences of the graphic photographs documenting the U.S. abuse of Iraqi detainees are so enormous that it will take decades for the United States to recover, according to a Bush adviser."

Since when did Rove ever say anything that negative unless he was setting up some sort of disinformation ploy?
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Its the Fundies fault, Rash too, for pushing this monster of an amateur on
to the White House. He is such an idiot that he fucked up Peace before she could turn into a lovely woman. Instead raped her.

But the Blame rests on Rush and the Fundamentalists who led the sheep with brainwashing psyops techniques.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kristol: more delusional optimism from the neo-cons
Yet Weekly Standard Editor William Kristol, who once worked for Vice President Dan Quayle, suggested that Washington will be able to turn around global public opinion by showing that abuse is not tolerated.

"It's terrible and it's made life difficult for awhile," Kristol said. "But if it becomes clear that this is the exception and are held accountable, it could end up being an impressive demonstration to countries where torture is routine."

<cough/>
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. What can we expect from a moran who worked for Quayle?
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
29. Richard Armitage worked for CACI before becoming part of State Dept.
:argh:
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AliceWonderland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
30. And in other news, water is wet, experts say
Yeesh.
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. After 9/11 we did have the worlds sympathy
but then Bush seized the opportunity and used our countrys feelings of patriotism and shock to push his greedy agenda$ in Iraq! Face it Bush was sinking fast in the polls before 9/11! But now, after this photo scandal I doubt if the Statue of Liberty can hold her head high again! We need a new president!!!:bounce:
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