G.I.'s Kill Scores of Militia Forces in 3 Iraqi Cities

"American soldiers battled insurgents led by a rebel Shiite cleric on Friday, killing scores of Iraqis, as the cleric delivered a defiant, derisive sermon that dismissed President Bush's expressions of regret for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners.

'What kind of peace could come from you or your agents when you feel pleasure at torturing prisoners?' the 31-year-old cleric, Moqtada al-Sadr, said to cheering supporters at his mosque in Kufa. 'How are you going to control the world when you can't control a few soldiers here and there? If anyone did this to one of your people, would you accept it?'

The Americans pursued Mr. Sadr's militia forces in the warrens and alleyways of two of the holiest Shiite cities, Karbala and Najaf, where the rebels have barricaded themselves for more than a month. Mr. Sadr's militiamen in Karbala fired rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47's at more than 100 soldiers, who moved low along walls and inched their way down a mile-long stretch of road, returning fire as roadside bombs exploded near them."

snip

"A male civilian riding by on a moped was accidentally shot and killed by American soldiers at the end of the battle on Friday."


American soldiers fighting on patrol in Karbala, Iraq.


A U.S. soldier lobbed a frag grenade at a militia member who was hiding in bushes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/08/international/middleeast/08IRAQ.html

Everything that they do from this point on will be unwanted by the Iraqi population. There is no more excuse to remain. It must be difficult to be there now, if this information (the prisoner tortures) has made it to the troops. Even the most gung-ho must be having trouble justifying what they are doing there. Really, how much does a battle with Sadr's forces, "killing scores", differ from killing prisoners. The whole country will be one huge prison until the U.S. and coalition military leaves.

The excuses are gone:
- no weapons of mass destruction
- no Saddam
- no 'rescue' from mass graves, torture or rape rooms.

There are no justifications left now but theft of oil, naked aggression, and religious extremism.

They just magically start loving each other and go on with their historically peaceful lives? They stop killing women because they try to go to school? They stop the genocide? If so I'm all for it. I'd love to see a detailed plan of your exit stratagy

Can you cite a legitimate source for your claim that Iraqi women have been killed because they were trying to go to school?

Under Saddam in Iraq, women did go to college!

Friend of mine, I'll call her Linda, actually travelled extensively in Iraq, afghanistan and Turkey from 1978 until around the mid 80's.

She 'went native' for a while, living in Baghdad. She says that, even though there were inequalities between the sexes, women did get educations, worked as doctors and nurses, were NOT forced to wear veils (some did, voluntarily) and it was a secular society. The country had a large thriving middle class and there were evidences of westernization.

"I grieve for Iraq," she told me a couple months ago. "I see the news reports and it is not the place I knew. While she did get the occasional catcall or comment, she was not harassed by Muslim men for being an unattended American woman living on her own. When I asked her if she might consider going back to help in reconstruction, she said "No. Not now, I would be too afraid."

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Surely the same folks who booked passage for the army to get over their could just do the same thing in reverse ?

Are you so sure that sodomy, rape, humiliation etc. are worse than what the future holds for Iraqis minus our tender mercies ? Here you haven't even choked down the complete set of torture videos for today, let alone the dozens of deaths we have caused in Karbala and Najaf, and you can say for a fact that we're doing the Iraqis a favor.

Torturers cannot do a favor to anyone except by ceasing to ply their trade. Now we've taken our sick, sadistic penile civilization and exported it for all the world to see. Well, here's some news ! In the field of torture, we have NOTHING to offer these people. They're the PROs.

with most education and ability to have independence in the ME? The lawlessness came when the US showed up because of the lack of security. Maybe you are confusing Afghanistan and Iraq, a common error among many Americans.

No further purpose is served by staying. Tie the thing up, see if the U.N. is willing to help and is wanted, then get out quick. The country is called Iraq, and the people of the country are called Iraqis. They will have to sort out their own future. As it stands this fiasco is just hurting the U.S. internationally, and will divide the country more and more with each passing day, just like Viet Nam did.

It was not the U.S.'s place to invade their country in the first place, and it is not the U.S.'s place to stay for a hundred years, with military bases, running a very thinly disguised colony or possession. Because that is exactly what staying amounts to.

Iraqis will have to learn to sort things out - it happened in Viet Nam after the U.S. left, and it happened in South Africa once the U.S. and U.K. quit supporting the apartheid regime.

As long as the U.S. military stays it will be misery for everybody, including Americans. The army's morale is bound to plummet as the news of the prison tortures spreads. Who wants to risk their life to support an occupation that resulted in that?

about what happens to Iraq or her citizens. And THEY are QUITE AWARE of what your real motives are. Please spare us all your hand-wringing.

is wondering how much to "compensate" them today on one of the news stations.

Who's he throwing at?

I was alluding to the fact that another soldier appeared to be right under it.

Frag means fragmentation.

even babies...the mass graves are rotting as our 'boyz' get jacked up on blood lust..raping and killing in a hysterical right wing rage!!!!!

Reservists are ordinary people just like everyone else in the united states. They have children and families. Why on earth do you think we just want to go and kill innocent people. Do you think it's a game? Their lives are on the line over there. Regardless of what you think of the politics of this war to them it's only about living to come home again. I know several combat veterans from 5 different wars and I've never once heard them say "boy I miss killing babies" It's people like you that insult the brave soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines that serve this country.

the drugs, and heroin. What are they going to be like when they come home? Will they think they're still in Iraq and turn on the people?

might be naked!!!

At least we are back to an R rated war video game instead of an X rated war video game.

Blood and guts and death? gooooooooood.

Sex and naked bodies? baaaaaaaaaaad.

before the international community demands a stop to all US Military Operation within Iraq.

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That the US's genocide will be accelerated.

It has been a constant theme lately, including Rummy's performances today about the shame and humiliation thie scandal has caused the US

They don't want any more situations coming to light.

Every Iraqi they kill from now on, in my mind, could have been a previous victim that they now want to make sure doesn't get to talk to media or International groups.

If the US wants to gain one spec of faith, they must at least pull back, make NO aggressive moves at all.

They have put themselves in this position, from the day they inititated this unprovoked, illegal war, and set foot on Iraqi soil.

But Arrogance will probably prevail,

And they will continue to slaughter the Iraqis.

(sigh)