(New) Video Seems to Show Beheading of American

Video Seems to Show Beheading of American

CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site appeared to show a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American in Iraq (news - web sites), saying the death was revenge for the prisoner-abuse scandal.

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit who identified himself as an American from Philadelphia.

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and cutting off his head with a large knife. They then held the head out before the camera.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_american_beheaded

Hmmmmmmmmm. In view of the experts saying that it didn't sound like Zwarkari because the accent was wrong...this plot is thickening.
One person asked, why would the "terrorists" do this now when the prisoner abuse revelations were working in their favor?

I mean, you have to think at least twice about this.

It doesn't matter where you're from, what your upbringing is...you put a bunch of people into the insanity that is war, they will revert to being animals...american, iraqi, whatever...we're animals.

what war were the people who beheaded Daniel Pearl involved in?

We're dealing with people who choose to act like animals.

None dare call it treason? Well I call it TREASON.

&paper=news&file=international1320EDT0606.DTL&directory=/news/archive/2004/05/11&type=news

OR = http://tinyurl.com/2ob62

was posting on the fly as I was just running out the door.

Tinoire's our gem. We better keep her happy!! :+

,...'cause there is a LOT of garbage from here to the "relevant" there. LOL!!

:bounce:

5 min zip file.

Can anyone translate?

http://drivehostnow.biz/iraq2vediow.zip

Warning this IS a snuff video. Depicts the things that happen when invited to "bring it on".

......am new to the board. You are right of course. I don't have a history here on the DU (yet) As soon as I posted it I realised that it requires a leap of faith in the light of the worms doing the rounds. OK no offence taken. I will be a bit more circumspect in future. Am sure it will be repeated on other sites soon.

I don't usually scream,...but, sometimes,...screaming is most appropriate *smile*.

Welcome to DU, slippy :hi:

Hope you feel at home in this cyber-spot.

:bounce:

haha! Yes I reviewed those posts.

As an introduction, am an expat brit (old european style) Am just now working in manila (though shortly off to Korea.) I work with americans and have done for over 20 years.

The vast majority of expat "yanks" are hard working adaptable, well balanced guys. They are a world apart from what the stay at home brit or other imagines them to be (too much jspringer exported?)

I refer critics to here, rense and wrh for the true voice of america.

I just hope you give us another president this year.

I will try to give you a new Prime Minister if am home next year ha ha!

"Trust" has been betrayed too many times for anyone to actually "grant" it,...before it is earned.

I do hope you stay on board,...and never, ever refer to yourself as "old europe".

All people who embrace and spread basic human principles is something new,...and fabulous to this world.

Okay?

:thumbsup:

but welcome to DU!! :hi:

Also at the bottom, no zip file straight .wma to windows player

PM me if you have it.

http://www.soulsurvivors.net/Public/iraq2vediom.wmv

I just checked it out. Be sure to note the "time" edits, the "body language" and the "environment" (in addition to a poster's observations of the foot wear *LOL*).

For all the world to analyze. HAH.

:shrug:

The one on the left is actually standing in the "at ease" position.

You can take the man out of the military, but you can't take the military out of the man.

According to msnbc Nick Berg was jailed by Iraqui officials at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24.

" "He was arrested and held without due process," his father, Michael Berg, told the Daily Local News of West Chester recently. "By the time he got out the whole area was inflamed with violence."

The FBI on March 31 interviewed Berg's parents in West Chester. Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, told the Philadelphia Inquirer the agency had been "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. "

Why was the U.S. military holding him? Why did his parents have to file a lawsuit? And who did the military release him to?

Also on msnbc, regarding the website containing the video: "one of the executioners read a statement: "For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused." "

According the the Red Cross aproximately 70 - 90 percent of those Iraqis being held are innocent of any crime and have been arrested by mistake. Couldn't we have released some of these people in exchange for this American citizen?

In this land that pushed "family values" so damn much--why aren't people and families valued????

:hi:
:yourock:

I hope feel at home here where truth matters!!!!

eom

<snip>
In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanide.

The Pentagon quickly drafted plans to attack the camp with cruise missiles and airstrikes and sent it to the White House, where, according to U.S. government sources, the plan was debated to death in the National Security Council.


“Here we had targets, we had opportunities, we had a country willing to support casualties, or risk casualties after 9/11 and we still didn’t do it,” said Michael O’Hanlon, military analyst with the Brookings Institution.

Four months later, intelligence showed Zarqawi was planning to use ricin in terrorist attacks in Europe.

The Pentagon drew up a second strike plan, and the White House again killed it. By then the administration had set its course for war with Iraq.

<snip>

Military officials insist their case for attacking Zarqawi’s operation was airtight, but the administration feared destroying the terrorist camp in Iraq could undercut its case for war against Saddam.

:grr: LINK :grr:


That's right, because Bush refused to take out the man who orchestrated this atrocity right before the war, the family of Mr. Berg can blame his untimely death on Bush's obdurately pursued policy failures

Talk about full circle!!!

So,....geez,...quite the "partnership" going on,...for what?

Power. "Ruling" the world.

hmpfff

someone tell me it's 2000 and Gore is about to take office

There, George, I thanked Rummy for something. Happy?

What effect prisoner abuse might have on captured U.S. soliders. Well, now we know. And let's not forget that about a dozen prisoners have died in U.S. custody.

:headbang:
rocknation

that when Dan Rather first aired those photos there would be terrible consequences.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

so as to create counter-propaganda that will distract from our fall from grace and continue to inflame the American people towards the PNAC global domination plan?

Is that the terrible consequences you are speaking of?

BAH!!!

Read further down the post.

:argh:

The video bore the title "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi shown slaughtering an American." It was unclear whether al-Zarqawi – a lieutenant of Osama bin Laden – was shown in the video, or was claiming responsibility for ordering the execution.

informed. Very well. I read everything here before posting. I happen to have my own ideas, is that ok with you? And, you don't need to yell in all caps.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

for your kind response. No wonder I don't post very often.

Apparently it's not acceptable to have a differing view than everyone else here.

:eyes: this is the take no responsibility administration

"One of the masked men read a statement urging Muslims to seek revenge after pictures were published of Iraqi prisoners being abused by U.S. troops at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

"Nation of Islam, is there any excuse left to sit idly by? And how can free Muslims sleep soundly as they see Islam being slaughtered, honor bleeding, photographs of shame and reports of Satanic degradation of the people of Islam, men and women, in Abu Ghraib prison?" the statement said.

The masked men then pushed the 26-year-old American to the floor and
shouted "God is greatest" above his screams as one of them sawed his head off with a large knife then held it aloft for the camera."

----------------------------------------
(Yahoo news item - Top Stories - Reuters)

Qaeda Leader Beheads U.S. Civilian in Iraq -Web Site

for "fear" of being identified? If they are who they say they are,...why the hell would they cover their whole body, masking their identification?

Huh?!!!!!!

I can't even identify their eye color.

Who are these concealed identities?

we shouldn't see them? we should be so afraid of retaliation that we keep our citizens in the dark about what the hell is going on? people need to see those and be shocked as hell.

A be-heading; vs. the photos.

Thanks to Dan Rather. Not to say the photos weren't cruel, one bit. But, no one's head was cut off.

This was RETALLIATON! They never would have seen them except for the media hype! By the US media!

I blame the media. This was being handled by internal military and should have stayed there.

Pardon me for having a dissenting view from mainstream democraticunderground.

is Dan Rather broadcasting on? :eyes:

Read the reports from the Red Cross or Amnesty International. The Abu Ghraib abuse has been going on for quite a while and the Iraqis knew ... even if the US public didn't. That's why the timing of the "retalliation" doesn't add up. The US public just became aware of the abuse and those photos, but the Iraqis knew this was going on all along. Why would they wait until now to retalliate?

It just wasn't BROADCAST all over the place. CBS did that. Others followed.

The military was on it. It should have stayed privately I think for the military to deal with.

But no---CBS had to spread it all over the globe. And now we see what that brought----an American's head CUT off.

Retalliation, pure and simple. Due to media coverage. Begun by CBS and Dan Rather who didn't know better than to STFU!!!!!!!!

Of course the Red Cross knew. Read some more. (independently)

I don't mean to swear, so I won't. Good grief. Read on your own; form your own opinion.

Education is a good thing.

to form our own opinions.

Don't you believe in our ability to both read and form our own educated opinions? If not,...why? Did someone lead you to believe that we are "incapable" of independent thought? If so,...who?

Tell me,...'cause,...I'm gonna go get that bastard/bitch!!!!

Blame the messenger, ignore the message. :eyes:

The Repugs and the Freepers are more outraged by the fact that the torture was made public than they are by the torture itself! When we realized there were no WMDs, they all said, "So what? Saddam was an evil, ruthless dictator who tortured and killed people! He even had rape rooms!" But now that we're doing the same thing, they want us to just ignore it. What hypocrites! :mad:

If you want those articles about this, let me know because they state that the family contacted Cong Sherwood AND Rummy.
-edit-
Camp Bucca also.

It's pretty upsetting. It seems no one wanted to deal with this until they were forced to by the media. :(

Last week on MSNBC, I heard that the family of one of the soldiers accused of abuse had tried desperately to get the US's attention - the Pentagon, Congress, etc. The uncle of the soldier said they even contacted the members of the Senate Armed Services Committee and were either blown off or ignored completely, which I found very disturbing. It wasn't until they contacted David Hackworth that they got some attention. I can understand why the Bushies did nothing, but why did the Dems ignore it? :mad:

They've got blood on their hands also...Another thing, those that were contacted have been denying knowing anything about it at all..they're all involved..but if it were their child involved, it would be a different story..We've got to hold them ALL accountable, every last one of them! I'm really surprised people haven't taken to the streets..

has anyone else considered that perhaps the hangings in Fallujah could have been in retaliation for what the Iraqis knew was going on in the prison?

Especially since it was "private contractors" aka mercenaries who were killed. If the Iraqis knew their people were being tortured in the prisons by the private contractors who were running them, that would explain not only the Fallujah hangings, but the huge increase in "insurgents" over the last several months.

....couldn't allow the word to spread beyond Iraq of the prison abuse.

Why should I go away? Doesn't anyone care about this statement in the news just released? Maybe some don't care to think for yourselves, I guess. It seems pretty obvious to me what prompted this beheading - MEDIA exposure. The photos/soldiers/civilians were already under military investigation; and in my opinion, the media frenzy caused this beheading.

"One of the masked men read a statement urging Muslims to seek revenge after pictures were published of Iraqi prisoners being abused by U.S. troops at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

"Nation of Islam, is there any excuse left to sit idly by? And how can free Muslims sleep soundly as they see Islam being slaughtered, honor bleeding, photographs of shame and reports of Satanic degradation of the people of Islam, men and women, in Abu Ghraib prison?" the statement said.

The masked men then pushed the 26-year-old American to the floor and
shouted "God is greatest" above his screams as one of them sawed his head off with a large knife then held it aloft for the camera."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040511/ts_nm/iraq_usa_beheading_dc

That anyone other than who claimed to have done it, did it.

Geez, man, you're naive!

"It seems pretty obvious to me what prompted this beheading - MEDIA exposure"

Are you as vile as that statement?

Really? The "media" are to blame? Not the fucking atrocities the US military committed?

You are truly dilusional.

You are sick.

Personally, I think BE-HEADING a person is a bit worse than the photos that were hyped all over, started by Dan Rather at CBS. If the photos would have stayed within the military investigation, this would not have happened. The military is still investigating.

But that's my opinion. (Sick/delusional? I don't think so.)

You do realize that Donald Rumsfeld has alluded to much worse photos, including ones documenting RAPE and MURDER of Iraqi prisoners, no? One of the videos is supposed to include the ANAL RAPE of a 16-yr old BOY. You think those aren't as bad as videotaping a US citizen being killed?

Don't you think a beheading is a real atrocity compared to the photos released?

And you call me vile.

And you are indeed vile.

Making excuses for atrocities is vile.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

The media did not torture and kill Iraqi prisoners. The media did not go to Abu Ghraib prison, knock on the doors, and ask, "Hey, you know what? It's sweeps week, and we really need something shocking. Would you mind torturing some detainees?"

Someone committed the abuse, and someone photographed it, and someone sent it out on the Internet. And none of those "somebodys" were the media.

I knew this line of reasoning was on the horizon. Believe you me, wait until you hear how the Flying Monkey Right starts blaming liberals and the anti-war movement for this. It's going to happen. You're going to see demonization on a scale you've never seen before. The dittoheads of the nation are going to look at you and see Osama bin Laden. And it's all going to be a concerted effort to shut up the opposition - both to the war and to this corrupt administration.

They've got nothing else to run on right now. Nothing except intimidation.

"Someone committed the abuse, and someone photographed it, and someone sent it out on the Internet. And none of those "somebodys" were the media."


You're partially right. The abuse from the US prison guards was absolutely wrong. It was/is under investigation by the military. It was disgusting. However; a beheading caused by the non-stop media attention was the result of that, I really believe.

The media was wrong in my opinion, to keep playing it over and over.

From what I understand, no one actually has stepped up to the plate and said THEY supplied the photos to CBS, who first reported it.

I heard some rumor they first appeared on a porn site. Don't know if that's true. I guess that's what you mean by first appearance.

In reality, first appearance in mainstream media was by Dan Rather, CBS and the torch was lit.

the torch was lit when the never elected George W. Bush invaded Iraq based on lies. The torch continues to burn. If you can't stand the heat.......

I can't stand the heat? I'm just saying what I truly believe. Sorry it's not to your liking.

Just a differing opinion, is all.

You can believe whatever you want. I think that all of the atrocities we are experiencing are a result of an unjust war. If you invade a country based on lies these sort of things will happen. if you don't like what is happening it is not the fault of the media. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of our murderous government. We will not win this war and the world will not be safer because of this war. These kinds of events are bearing this out. We tried to warn them but they would not listen.

Go to the bottom of the thread.

over and over until you become as sick of THE ACT instead of THE EMBARRASSMENT or BAD PUBLICITY as we are.

That is why Eisenhower made all allied troops within his command tour the death camps - because he knew there'd be people like you who would try to hide them and try to minimze their impact to see just how vile the Germans were.

Same with rounding up all the surrounding villagers who "never knew such a thing was going on" RIGHT IN THEIR OWN FUCKING BACKYARDS - and made them bury the victums.

You're sure on your way to being a "good German"!

Read around some more.

According to your friend Rush, the pictures of Iraqi "criminals" being "humiliated" by American soldiers are "no big deal." Just frat boy stuff. Anyone can take a joke, right? It's not like anyone actually died or anything, right? Oh yeah, a couple dozen prisoners died, but they were ruthless criminals. Except that 90% of them weren't, according to the military's own reports. But still it's no big deal, according to Rush and most "reasonable" people.

So how come al Quaida is so mad about the pictures? I mean, if the beheading was caused by Dan Rather and the "media frenzy" that you cite, then why? Since they're "no big deal" and all?

Is it possible that the beheading, if real, could be caused by something other than those pictures of harmless frat-boy stunts? Like maybe, oh, the fact that we INVADED their country?

Just maybe?

That when we invaded Iraq there would be terrible consequences.

well before the prisoner abuse scandal broke, didn't he?

WAY BEFORE the prisoner abuse scandal came to light--i.e., Daniel Pearl. They may have used this as their reason, but I honestly don't believe in my gut that had this prisoner abuse stuff not come out, we wouldn't still be seeing things like this happening.

Given the content of the article, that is an awfully equivocal headline. Is there a concern it is a fraud? I guess there will be plenty more on this. Horrible to contemplate if true, or even if untrue.

If you read the whole article, his family already knew that he died by beheading, they just didn't know the circumstances.

I agree, the headline calls into question what is shown in the video, but the video itself is conclusive.

,...and whack off this guy's head?

Look at the info in Tinoire's post.

The guy was still wearing a prison uniform.

Who the f*ck did this? WHO?!?!?!?!!!

:puke:

"jump suits" that the U.S. issues to prisoners, including those in Guantanamo Bay.

Who wears orange jumpsuits?

I saw pictures of prisoners at Gitmo wearing orange jumpsuits.

This gruesome act serves as a perfect metaphor for what bush has done to our nation and the world.

The body on the bridge was also identified as from Pennsylvania, and the story indicated there was 'trauma' to the body.

That orange jumpsuit thing really jumps out at me for some reason.

Surely to God Almighty there are no contractors dressed in such a way as to attract attention.

"massive head injuries" - essentially "trauma".

The injury was so "massive" that the crew went down the track to pick up the racer's helmet - complete with head.

Is there any independent confirmation that this man is actually dead?

Because some who have seen the video think it might be fake, which might mean that this man is not really dead. OR it could mean that he was killed at a different time in a different way.

I'm sorry that my questioning will upset some people who read this thread. My suggestion is to go read the Constitution.

On the video he identified himself as being from Philly, and the body found was of a man from Pennsylvania.

This is horrible :(

"Berg, who was in Baghdad from late December to Feb. 1, returned to Iraq in March. He didn't find any work and planned again to return home on March 30, but his daily communications home stopped on March 24. He later told his parents he was jailed by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul."

He must have been very desperate!

:shrug: :kick:

AP just put this up....

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit -- similar to a prisoner's uniform -- who identified himself as Nick Berg, a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia."

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" -- "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera.

Berg was a small-business owner from the Philadelphia suburbs, his family said Tuesday.

"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," one of the men read from a statement.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/051104dnintbeheading.1b0205fdb.html

I wonder if a picture will be posted.

This story is just,...

,...oh, nevermind,...I'm probably overthinking this.

It's a disgusting, revolting act. :puke:

Orange Prison like uniforms do exist in the M.E

This was a symbol, Berg stood for the Guantamo Detainees... they just told us, this is what they are doing at Guantamo, since they are doing it at Abu Ghraib... the message will be missed by you, but not the target audience, aka the Arab Street

(according to the media). Hard to establish because who knows where they got that information (from the prison guards?). But he had definitely been illegally detained as you say.

===

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq.

The next day, April 6, Nick Berg was released. He told his parents he had been riding in a taxi on March 24 when he was arrested by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul.

<snip>

They spoke on March 24, and Nick Berg told his parents he was coming home on March 30. Then the communications stopped, and he wasn't on the plane on March 30.

============

So what's this bit about not getting on the plane on March 30th? And telling his family he'd have to exit Iraq via "Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait". After April 6 (or 9), no one in his family hears from him again.

=====================

What a sloppy, calloused administration!

:cry:

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/132/nation/Pennsylvania_family_of_man_who:.shtml

On March 31, the FBI interviewed Berg's parents in West Chester. Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, told The Philadelphia Inquirer the agency had been ''asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq.''

On April 5, the Bergs filed a lawsuit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. He told his parents he hadn't been mistreated.

Then they didn't hear from him after April 9.

let's not forget the have some real fuckin' sickos on their side...

the Bushies and the jihadists - two sides of the same coin - they need eachother to survive...

Just as Bush needs these shitbags in order to instill fear in this nation...

It doesn't look like Bush's apology for committing war crimes against the Iraqis did much good.

Don

...not the committing of the atrocities.

The spin will be 'the only thing worse than committing war crimes is being caught out and people knowing you are commiting war crimes.'

The saying 'out of sight, out of mind' is now being simplified to just 'Out of Our Minds.'

I'm applying for sanctuary in another species, one that's not endangering itself...

What they WON'T say is that our public can remain blissfully ignorant of atrocities, but given that they're taking place in Iraq against the population the Iraqi people will know about them regardless of whether they're publicized here.

Revenge killings will go on as long as we torture, rape, kill and abuse prisoners or civilians and media coverage or lack thereof won't have a bit of effect on that. Their spin will be an utterly empty argument.

That is why they bombed their own in the prison. Everybody in the world knows about it. IT IS THE U.S. PUBLIC THAT IS BEING LIED TO ABOUT THE EXTENT OF THE ATROCITIES.

or daughter were shot in the face, for instance, protesting the shutdown of a newspaper.

What if your father or brother was forced to masturbate into someone's mouth?

What would you feel if you watched video's of your child being gang-raped?

What would you do if this was called part of "the process"?

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

...of course I'll keep an eye out for commies called red ants.

Sincerely,

ant smith

and Taguba, Kennedy, Kerry, H. Clinton...

Fuckin' hell...

To: Heff
Dan Rather's victim.

10 posted on 05/11/2004 10:12:32 AM PDT by KellyAdmirer
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1133415/posts

blaming everybody except the ones who were actually responsible -- the soliders who did the abusing and the commanders who allowed it to happen. And what sicko takes those kinds of photos anyway?

And then one of the Freepers under the mistaken impression that Berg was an anti-war activist posted something like "At least there's one less Democrat." The moderator did remove it.

I guess being a Freeper means advocating personal responsibility except when it's inconvenient or gets in the way of slandering a liberal. And you're outraged only if you think the guy who was killed was a conservative.

But these guys were shooting and decapitating prisoners well before the prison scandal broke.

Shit like this plays into Bush's hands.

The reaction will be to make people think "these people deserve the abuse, they are little better than animals." It will mimimize the outrage and get us back on the evil, dehumanized enemy theme. The abuse scandal was making them seem too human for Bush's purposes.

To travel there, stay in Baghdad two months (not find work), then get captured by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul, then killed in a gruesome way, wearing an orange jumpsuit - there are a lot of details to be filled in, still.

Some things that come to mind:
- unlucky person in the wrong place at the wrong time.
- mercenary in deep cover.
- intelligence in deep cover.
- black ops by CIA or other agency - a hapless character lured to his death to provide a gruesome counter-propaganda video.

I know some people will think it is the wrong time to speculate on these matters.

,...and your CIA et al black ops is first to jump on my list of possibilities,...only because of that orange jumpsuit in which I cannot imagine ANY contractor being suited.

does it usually take 10 or so posts before you get some atention?

According to the Freepers, the poor guy was an sponsor of Global Day of Action ie a peace activist. That would be cause for FBI questioning.

Perhaps the Powers That Be thought an "anti-American" peace activist would be an acceptable sacrifice for renewed public unity a la Operation Northwoods. The CIA produces only the most realistic black-ops - they are professionals.

Or perhaps it really was a handful of crazed terrorists looking for cheap publicity. Noone will ever know.

I am sorry to hear about this.

nt

"lets see if we can take it as well as dish it out?"

WTF?

Am sorry, I never defended torture or executions from whatever crazy mutha that wants to do it. I'm anti war, war dehumanises you AND your enemy. Whether its the creeping insiduous type that starts with rumsfeld saying that "geneva conventions don't apply 'precisely' to al qaeda, right upto murdering for allah as shown in the video clip.

I reject both positionss and will continue to dish it out to anyone who manifestly rejects humanity. Its shown in a miriad of ways like brits shooting 8 year old girls, israelis murdering stone throwers, murderers decapitating civilians. And i dish it out just as much to islamist and christian and jewish fundementalist haters because I have no doubt that if these fanatical evangelist christian fundementalists were born in israel or iran or iraq or afghanistan, they would be the same murdering terroists that bomb kids on buses in israel. Its the breed that is common not the badge they wear.That is just the convenience.

This war is lost. It was lost before a soldier stepped foot in there. Iraq does not want burger king democracy. And whether you like it or not its their choice. Get over it bush, nobody likes a sore loser, get out, go home.

And i dish it out just as much to islamist and christian and jewish fundementalist haters because I have no doubt that if these fanatical evangelist christian fundementalists were born in israel or iran or iraq or afghanistan, they would be the same murdering terroists that bomb kids on buses in israel. Its the breed that is common not the badge they wear. That is just the convenience.

We need more like you. Welcome to DU

(05-11) 10:20 PDT CAIRO, Egypt (AP) --

A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site showed a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American civilian in Iraq, saying the death was revenge for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers.

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit -- similar to a prisoner's uniform -- who identified himself as Nick Berg, a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia."

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" -- "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera.


<snip>

this war is tearing me and our country and world apart...:cry:

Berg had traveled several times to Third World countries to help spread technology, his family said. He had previously traveled to Kenya and Ghana, where they said he had purchased a $900 brick-making press for a poor village, the family said.

Berg's mother, Suzanne Berg, said her son was in Iraq to help rebuild communication antennas.

"He had this idea that he could help rebuild the infrastructure," she said.

http://www.pennlive.com/newsflash/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-16/108430077760820.xml

Maybe intelligence in deep cover.
Maybe someone's patsy.

Lots of ways to interpret this still. But the fact that he has traveled a lot to the third world certainly seems like a salient fact.

"I don't want to worry my beautiful mind over such things."

- The Witch of Kennebunkport

Maybe you should start worrying, you bitch. After all, look at the demon spawn you raised.

Perhaps if they had shown the Chimp a little more affection as a child, he wouldn't have become the monster we have before us.

It's an insult to the many decent wiccans.

Sat, May. 08, 2004
West Chester contractor missing in Iraq

Associated Press

<snip>

He stayed until Feb. 1, making contact with a company that indicated there would likely be work for him later. But he returned on March 14 and there was no work, so he began traveling. He usually called home once a day and e-mailed several times; Michael Berg is his business manager, and they needed to stay in touch.

<snip>

When FBI agents arrived at the Berg's West Chester home on March 31, they were relieved to know their son was alive, but in jail. The agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about.

Jerri Williams, spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, said the agency was "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq.

<snip>

Nick Berg said he would come home through Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait.

<snip>

The Bergs have hounded the State Department, the FBI and the International Committee of the Red Cross, seeking information. Michael Berg said the State Department sent an official to Nick Berg's hotel, where an employee told the official they had not heard of him.

<snip>

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/politics/8621773.htm

Nick Berg was "travelling" on his own, not working.

The FBI demanding to know his "purpose" in Iraq

They filed a suit in federal court that the US military was illegaly holding him

Nick Berg, in order to get back home to the states, had to get to Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait to catch a flight? No airport in Iraq?

The "agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about". Why? So these beheaded men that we can't identify could lure him? Film it? Provoke more outrage so the RW can excuse & snuff out the torture taking place at Abu-Ghaibr?


Sorry. Bull-shit alert. My theory right now. with the little information we have? Nick Berg knew something (Photos? What?), was in hiding, and was lured out to be executed by people on our side who are going to cynically exploit this beheading.

this atrocity?

This is freaky as all hell.

The man was still in his prison uniform!!!!

Did aQ walk into one of our prisons and murder this guy?

YIKES!!!!

and was under NO LEGAL obligation to keep his mouth shut about anything because he hadn't signed a privacy waiver.

Just found this:

26-year-old Nick Berg didn't sign a privacy waiver when he went over there.

And even though the State Department is using its one person in Iraq to help track him down, they can't tell anyone, including Berg's parents what's going on.

And that frustrates his mother Susanne.

"I'm just really scared, because we haven't heard from him for a month, and truthfully, nobody can even tell us whether he's dead or alive."

The local congressional delegation hasn't gotten any answers, either.

Nick last checked in April 9th, saying he was trying to find a safe way home following two weeks of FBI interrogation, after an arrest in Mosul.

<snip>

http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_128173423.html

I have.... heard stories like this before... it has begun... OMFG

and to give the gov'ment the benefit of the doubt, the orange suit does exist in the area... this could also be AQ sending US a message that will be missed by most Muricans, but not in the Arab Street.

Just playing both sides... but from what you posted, the former is far more likely and the latter may just be Psy Ops,since they know how this will play in the Arab Street.

And,...I really feel seriously nauseated that American citizen's lives are now being used to do counter-propaganda.

Tinoire, you have so long been a favorite of mine. Thanks for once again bringing so much info to the discussion.

You go girl!! :toast:

Julie

that the purported "al Qaeda" men standing behind Nick Berg just looked, stood and had body builds like Westerners. And why is everything so out of focus? Was that done by the media or was the original so out of focus?

At any rate, thanks for your research. I agree....this stinks.

that were in the articles posted on this thread. What are you asking for?

,...and, naturally I took that post literally.

not sure where the original video is posted. Says it was on some Arab web site.

Parents agonize over their son missing in Iraq.
Parents against war, junior supported the chimp and his gang of criminals.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/8617523.htm?1c

I agree! You are the best and I love you like a sister!

Would it be only pro-Bush that would have arrest powers in Iraq?

Thanks! :yourock:

Thankyou for posting, Tinoire.

When it comes to research, you are one of the best! :toast:

Tinoire - man, your skills are amazing, your grasp of the underlying matters as well as your organization. You never cease to amaze me. This is definitely weird.

is that a picture of her in the avatar slot?

If so, then :loveya:

in the avatar.

Still haven't picked my jaw up off the floor. Tinoire, thank you for making the connections.

The only thing running through my mind are the lyrics from Paris' song "What Would You Do?"

See you could witness the illuminati bodycount
Don’t be surprised these is devils that I’m talkin’ bout
You think a couple thousand lives mean shit to killers?
Nigga I swear to God we the ones - ain’t no villans

You can listen to the song here. http://www.guerrillafunk.com/paris/sonic_jihad/

PLEASE do. And please, if you like it, buy the album.

Peace...


What Would You Do?

I see a message from the government, like every day
I watch it, and listen, and call ‘em all suckas
They warnin’ me about Osama or whatever
Picture me buyin’ this scam I said never

You in tune to a Hard Truth Soldier spittin’
I stay committed gives a fuck to die or lose commission
It’s all a part of fightin’ devil state mind control
And all about the battle for your body mind and soul

And now I’m hopin’ you don’t close ya mind - so they shape ya
Don’t forget they made us slaves, gave us AIDS and raped us
Another Bush season mean another war for profit
All in secret so the public never think to stop it
The illuminati triple 6 all connected
Stolen votes they control the race and take elections
It’s the Skull and Bones Freemason kill committee
See the Dragon gettin’ shittier in every city

What would you do if you
knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?

And then what if you saw
All of the things that’s wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away...

Now ask yourself who’s the one with the most to gain (Bush)
‘Fore 911 motherfuckas couldn’t stand his name (Bush)
Now even niggas waivin’ flags like they lost they mind
Everybody got opinions but don’t know the time

‘Cause America’s been took - it’s plain to see
The oldest trick in the book is MAKE an enemy
Of phony evil so the government can do it’s dirt
And take away ya freedom lock and load, beat and search

Ain’t nothin’ changed but more colored people locked in prison
These pigs still beat us but it seem we forgettin’
But I remember ‘fore Septmember how these devils do it
Fuck Guliani ask Diallo how he doin’

We in the streets holla “jail to the thief” - followv Fuck wavin’ flags bring these dragons to they knees
Oil blood money make these killers ride cold
Suspicious suicides people dyin’ never told

It’s all a part of playin’ God so ya think we need ‘em
While Bin Ashcroft take away ya rights to freedom
Bear witness to the sickness of these dictators
Hope you understand the time brother cause it’s major

What would you do if you
knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?

And then what if you saw
All of the things that’s wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away...

So now you askin why my records always come the same
Keep it real, ain’t no fillers, motherfuck a blingin’
Mine eyes seen the gory of the coming of the beast
So every story every word I’m sayin’ “Fuck Peace”

See you could witness the illuminati bodycount
Don’t be surprised these is devils that I’m talkin’ bout
You think a couple thousand lives mean shit to killers?
Nigga I swear to God we the ones - ain’t no villans

Or any other word they think to demonize a country
Ain’t no terror threat unless approval ratings slumpin’
So I’ma say it for the record we the ones that planned it
Ain’t no other country took a part or had they hand in

Just a way to keep ya scary so you think you need ‘em
Praisin’ Bush while that killer take away ya freedom
How many of us got discovered but ignore the symptoms?
Niggas talkin’ loud but ain’t nobody sayin’ shit’

And with the 4th Amendment gone eyes are on the 1st
That’s why I’m spittin’ cyanide each and every verse
I see the Carlyle group and Harris Bank Accounts
I see ‘em plead the 5th each and every session now

And while Reichstag burns see the public buy itv I see the profilin’ see the media’s compliance
War is good for business see the vicious make a savior
Hope you understand the time brother cause it’s major

What would you do if you
knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?

And then what if you saw
All of the things that’s wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away...


http://www.guerrillafunk.com/paris/sonic_jihad/

it deserves it's own thread, so I created one in GD with all credit to you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1577807

Thank you. This information needs to get out there.

http://www.viperrecords.com/imtech/bio.shtml

He's another great one. Here are the lyrics to "Point of No Return", the song that turned me onto his stuff (heard him on Divine Forces Radio on KPFK 90.7 here in Santa Monica):

"The Point of No Return"

Yeah... It's that real this time around
Immortal Technique... Revolutionary Volume 2
It's on now motherfucker...
Lock and load!

This is the point of no return I can never go back
Life without parole upstate shackled and trapped
Living in the hole, lookin' at the world through a crack
But fuck that, I'd rather shoot it out and get clapped
I've gone too far, there ain't no coming back for me
Auschwitz gas chamber full of Zyklon-B
Just like the Spanish exterminating Tainos
Raping the black and Indian women, creating Latinos
Motherfuckers made me out of self righteous hatred
And now you got yourself a virus, stuck in the Matrix
A suicide bomber, strapped and ready to blow
Lethal injection, strapped down ready to go
Don't you understand they'll never let me live out in peace
Concrete jungle, guerrilla war out in the streets
Nat Turner with the sickle pitch fork and machete
The end of the world, motherfucker you not ready
This is the point of no return and nobody can stop it
Malcolm Little when he knelt before Elijah Muhammad
The comet that killed the dinosaurs, changing the earth
They love to criticize they always say I change for the worse
Like prescription pills when you misusin' them nigga
The Templar Knights when they took Jerusalem nigga
And figured out what was buried under Solomon's temple
Al-Aqsa the name is not coincidental
I know too much the government is trying to murder me
No coming back like cutting your wrists open vertically
How could the serpent be purposely put in charge of the country
Genetic-engineered sickness spread amongst me
My people are so hungry that they attack without reason
Like a fuckin' dog ripping off the hand that feeds him
Immortal Technique is treason to the Patriot Act
So come and get me motherfucker cause I'm not coming back

This is the point from which I can never return
And if I back down now then forever I burn
This is the point from which I can never retreat
Cause If I turn back now there can never be peace
This is the point from which I will die or succeed
Living the struggle, I know I'm alive when I bleed
From now on it can never be the same as before
Cause the place that I'm from doesn't exist anymore

This is the point of no return nigga you better believe this
Mary Magdalene giving birth to the children of Jesus
The evolution of the world, bloody and dramatic
Human beings killing monkeys to conquer the planet
The kingdoms of Africa and Mesopotamia
Machine-gun your body with depleted uranium
This is the age of microchips and titanium
The dark side of the moon and contact with aliens
I started out like Australians, criminal minded
Broke into hell, tore it down, and built a city behind it
South Paw, murderous, methodology nigga
Remember that I'm just a man don't follow me nigga
Cause once you pass the point you can never go home
You've got to face the possibility of dying alone
So tell me motherfucker, how could you die for the throne
When you don't even got the fuckin' heart to die for your own
It rains acid, one day the earth'll cry from a stone
And you'll be lookin' at the world livin' inside of a dome
Computerized humanity living inside of a clone
This is the place where the unknown is living and real
Wormwood, the Planet X and the Seventh Seal
Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal
This is the last time that I kneel and pray to the sky
Cause almost everything that I was always ever told was a lie

This is the point from which I can never return
And if I back down now then forever I burn
This is the point from which I can never retreat
Cause If I turn back now there can never be peace
This is the point from which I will die or succeed
Living the struggle, I know I'm alive when I bleed
From now on it can never be the same as before
Cause the place that I'm from doesn't exist anymore

(Oh yeah - he freestyles all his stuff. Amazing guy. "Peruvian Cocaine" is another favorite.)

Loved the lyrics but am too tired tonight. Will LISTEN to it in the morning.

Peace

:hug:

but, I can say it couldn't happen at a better time for the administration. Coming right on the tail of that jackass Inhofe's screed on how the detainees deserved what they got. This heinous murder plays right into that unfortunate position.

action.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts

HERE IS THE ENEMY -- they have posted their names
A.N.S.W.E.R. | 3-7-04 | dfu

Posted on 03/07/2004 7:02:01 PM PST by doug from upland

Here you are, FReepers. Here is the enemy. Working in conjunction with A.N.S.W.E.R., they have given us their names.

How about this one --- Jameel Rashid, U.S. Coast Guard, Portsmouth, VA

Well, sailor. I guess it is time for me to call your commanding officer and see what he thinks about this.
====

MARCH 20, 2004


GLOBAL DAY OF ACTION
on the FIRST ANNIVERSARY of the U.S. BOMBING and INVASION of IRAQ


Bring the troops home now!


End colonial occupation from Iraq to Palestine and everywhere!


Money for jobs, education, healthcare and housing - Not war!
Stop the attacks on civil rights and civil liberties!
Madison Square Park (Madison Ave. & 23rd St.) in New York City, Dolores Park in San Francisco, Hollywood and Vine in Los Angeles, Michigan & Pearson in Chicago, and in cities across the U.S.


<snip of all the names they posted>

Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc.,
West Chester, PA

<snip>

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts



CONGRATULATIONS FREEPERS! YOU JUST GOT AN ANOTHER AMERICAN KILLED

Our cheap-ass, worthless media at work,...failing to do even basic investigation,...or even recognizing that the guy is in a freakin' prison suit (probably exactly like all other US government issued).

I am so hopping angry that our own people are being used to generate counter-propaganda!

:argh:

That would be enough to kill him for, wouldn't it?
Is that too absurd?

has at least 7 DoD contracts for broadcast media in Iraq which would include radio towers, right?

While we're on the subject of broadcast media in Iraq FWIW, when Rumsfeld made his "Message to the People of Iraq" speech on 4-30-03 it was broadcast from a Commando Solo II aircraft.
http://www.dod.gov/news/Apr2003/n04302003_200304302.html

Commando Solo missions are part of aerial mind control, which have been used to influence foreign elections and behavior.
http://www.raven1.net/commsolo.htm

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

He's over in Iraq looking for a freelance gig. Remember how the OSP staff was all temps? The neo-cons have privatized the war and the contractors have tasks to subcontract out.

and ultimately killed because of the torture revelations. I admit it's possible that some faction on our side would do this to an American, but it just seems less likely than what it seems to be. There is plenty of reason for such reprisal on the part of Iraqis right now.

What,...the US releases the guy in a bright, orange prison uniform?

Give me a break!!!

If they wanted to make it look like jihadis...

That to me makes no sense...

I'll take a stab anyway.

Answer: Reckless, sloppy, murderous, evil-doers.

Now, you answer me why the US would send this guy out in prison garb.

What, were they trying to draw attention to him ON PURPOSE?!?!?!

BAH BULLSHIT!!!!

Standard operating procedure?!?!?!?!

:puke:

everyone here is jumping to conclusions...

yes I'll admit that there are questions that need to be asked, but it troubles me to see everyone jump to the IMMEDIATE conclusion that the US did it..

and they aren't that sloppy...

The kidnappers could have put it on him...for any number of reasons...

Whaddya' wanna bet?

:bounce:

U.S. prisoners. This is undeniable from the video. Perhaps there are questions about where he was when he was killed and by whom, but it cannot be denied that he was wearing U.S.-style prison clothes.

Downed apache pilots in orange
Jessica lynch in orange.

I suppose the Iraqis *might* have put him in such a uniform. We don't know for sure whether the unifrom he's wearing in the video is actually a Coalition uniform. Certainly, I do doubt that if he was released by the US forces and then captured by Iraqis even 24 hours later that he would have still been wearing those clothes. However, with things in such chaos, I would not count on the US authorities giving him back his old clothes or providing any new ones. It IS possible that's all he had and could obtain.

I'm not discounting the possibility of murder by US parties here, as I already said. I just don't see it as a conclusive case. And hey, I'm a firm LIHOPer, okay?

Did you ever ask yourself, how is it that it's always the most innocent (WTC, Oklahoma City, poor independent contractor) who get it whenever terrorists strike?

further, it is arguable that this does not benefit the Bushies at all, in fact it shows clearly how their mismanagment led to tragedy...

Bush benefits if it is not revealed that he was kept in prison by the U.S. for weeks without due process -- even if he was later killed by Iraqis or, as they are saying, Al Queda.

Excellent, well-reasoned point. Anyone who blows off the "who benefits" question,...doesn't really want to reveal the truth.

It would have been pure revenge, and little else--unless they thought it would scare more foreigners out of the country, which it might well do.

It is being reported that one of the head aQ guys is alleging he did the act himself.

So, why cover himself head to foot?

Now, does THAT make any sense?

Who knows? I see your point.

prison! He was found in a standard US prison jumpsuit. How did the Al-Qaeda guys get hold of him? Was he released from prison and picked up by "terra-ists" before he could even change clothes?

I think Tinoire is a goddess - out and out! She has really pulled this thing together and these are questions that have to be answered. We are way through the looking glass and gone here, folks. We can no longer take anything at face value. We are living under evil and whatever happens we cannot lose sight of that fact.

why would they keep him in the jumpsuit?

wouldn't they go that little extra yard to make it look more authentic by taking him out of his coalition prison garb?

we don't even know what that orange thing is on him...

to many people on DU are to quick to jump on the consiracy bandwagon...

BAH!!!

Apparently, the FBI/CIA did go the extra mile by sticking with the "symbolism" these aQ people allegedly shoot for,...yes?

conclusion. So, if anything the CIA/FBI would certainly try to be consistent in "doing as a terrorist would do".

Once again Bush gets the awful news about the murderous "freedom haters" while speaking at a grammar school.

Once again the loose ends point to MIHOP.

,...and am feeling angrier by the moment.

I no longer doubt all forms of MIHOP. Not after this thread.

The "evil-doers" are in our midst.

Has it been reported that the body found was wearing a "standard" US prison jumpsuit?

And it occurs to me that I haven't seen any pictures of Iraqi prisoners wearing such jumpsuits. I know they use them at Gitmo, but are we *assuming* they are used in Iraq? Or maybe they're reserved for more favored guests, which he presumably was, somewhat, not being an Iraqi?

I agree, these questions do need answering. I just think many of you are making a judgment based on leaps of faith rather than the evidence presented so far.

they are having a nagging, sick-to-the-stomach feeling about it..hoping it's not what they fear it could be..sharing information and guesswork..knowing that trust or faith in media/government is no longer an option.

is the "birthday suit"

not Iraqis.

Tinoire, let me simply say thanks. I don't always reply, but your research and reporting on this has been outstanding.

everyone who is not US military flies into and out of Jordan or Kuwait City and convoys into hell. I have a friend who just came back from a trip with Reuters (she's a stringer) and they flew in and out of Amman.

I don't think so. This is the same type of human filth that killed Daniel Pearle. We don't feed people to the wolves like your conspiracy theory implies.

My heart goes out to Berg's family.

This entire scenario sickens me.

But you really have to be paranoid to believe our military/CIA orchestrated this beheading.

I've read posts claiming the attackers footwear, physical size and hidden faces 'proves' they were 'westerners'. I've read that the orange jump suit 'proves' they were our guys. I've read that the film is glitchy, that the time stamp doesn't seem right. That we should 'check the accents' to see if its true Arabic. That 'actors' were used for Bin Laden. That the video comes from Afghanistan 'proving' they are fake.

All this proves is that some people on here desperately WANT to believe that it is our guys doing this so they can hate our government even more.

Well I have plenty of reasons to hate our current administration. I don't need to fabricate reasons.

Lets at least admit to some facts.
Fact: Iraqi's come in all sizes.
Fact: Foreign fighters HAVE been seen and killed in Iraq.
Fact: They NEVER show their faces in these videos. Why should this one be any different.
Fact: CIA may be corrupt, but I'm confident they wouldn't overlook something obvious like the video time stamp.
Fact: Per his family, Berg was working on his own in Iraq to help rebuild their communication systems.
Fact: Getting out of Iraq via Kuwait, Jordan or Turkey is what MOST people do. Especially those that do not have connections with the government.

Question: Why do you think it is bizarre that they would have orange jump suits but not think it bizarre that they have access to all manner of weapons.
Question: Do you also think that Daniel Pearl's beheading was 'staged'?
Question: Do you really think the Arab media would not expose an obvious fraud video? Maybe you think the Arabs are in on it also?

Sorry if I sound bitchy, but I'm just pissed at the entire war. We shouldn't be there and I want our boys home.

But this conspiracy theory bull$h!t just makes us look stupid.

IMHO