Church leaders object to casting God on U.S. side

Finally...

"The abuse of Iraqi prisoners by some U.S. soldiers points to the danger of President Bush describing the occupation of Iraq and the war on terror as battles between forces of good and the 'evildoers' of the world, religious leaders say.

Even before compromising photos of nude and hooded prisoners surfaced in the news media, some mainline Protestant and American Muslim leaders had criticized the president for a series of speeches that appeared to say that God was on the side of America.

'We question that kind of theology -- putting 'good' on us and 'evil' on the other,' said Antonios Kireopoulous, the associate general secretary for international affairs at the National Council of Churches, the major ecumenical agency in the United States.

'Seeing these photos of prisoner abuse puts the lie to that,' he said in an interview Thursday. "It shows the crack in that kind of thinking.'"

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/05/07/MNGV66H4IU1.DTL

Didn't nazi SS soldiers have belt buckles on which were inscribed the phrase, "God is with us"?

all the German soldiers did, not only the SS.

SS had Meine Ehre Heist Treue (Loyalty is My Honor) on their buckles.

Associated PRess 5/12/2004 6:30 AM

Vatican calls prison abuse a bigger blow to U.S. than Sept. 11

ROME (AP) — The scandal of prisoner abuses by U.S. soldiers in Iraq has dealt a bigger blow to the United States than the Sept. 11 attacks, the Vatican foreign minister told an Italian newspaper.
In an interview published Wednesday in the Rome daily La Repubblica, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo described the abuses as "a tragic episode in the relationship with Islam" and said the scandal would fuel hatred for the West and for Christianity. "The torture? A more serious blow to the United States than Sept. 11. Except that the blow was not inflicted by terrorists but by Americans against themselves," Lajolo was quoted as saying in La Repubblica.

Lajolo said that "intelligent people in Arab countries understand that in a democracy such episodes are not hidden and are punished ... Still the vast mass of people — under the influence of Arab media — cannot but feel aversion and hate for the West growing inside themselves." The remarks were not the first by Lajolo on the abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. In the wake of the scandal, he had said that a democracy should punish those responsible and their direct superiors.

The Vatican paper, L'Osservatore Romano, has also run some harsh comments in the past days. On Monday, it criticized what it called a Pentagon cover-up and took sharp aim at the photograph of a soldier holding a prisoner by a leash. In Wednesday's interview, Lajolo said the coalition's priority should be "putting as soon as possible at the head of the Iraqi executive an Iraqi leader who speaks to the Iraqis in Arabic and not in English."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-12-vatican-iraqi-abuse_x.htm

I don't think this will go down well for Fartwell and Robberson and their ilk!

many here have wondered about.

The voice of reasonableness from the Christian Churches that are NOT the Falwell type.

for so long that the general public is almost unaware of their presence. These people are from "mainline" churches, and their leadership is intelligent enough to cast a critical eye at the Chimperor's administration & policies.

It's the same group that publicly criticized Chimp's environmental policies on Earth Day.

At least they're trying to follow Jesus; as far as I can tell, the RWers are following right behind Mammon and, of course, are right there in bed w/Neocons and the Neo-Conman-in-Chief.

Isn't assuming you know the mind of God considered blasphemy in most religions?

Would the religion leaders would have considered it okay to speak for God as long as Americans were minding their manners?

There's something very day-late-and-a-dollar-behind about this kind of theology.

http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html

"Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs, and his constant references to "evil doers," in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations - the anti-Christ. People close to the Pope claim that amid these concerns, the Pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations."

This is as good time as any to remember the stark warning that Pope John Paul II gave George Bush on the eve of the Iraq invasion:

Pope to Bush: Go into Iraq and you go without God
By CHB Staff and Wire Reports
Mar 5, 2003, 07:18

Pope John Paul II has a strong message for President George W. Bush: God is not on your side if you invade Iraq.

<snip>

Laghi came bearing the pope's message: A war would be a "defeat for humanity" and would be neither morally nor legally justified.

The Pope also questioned the President's statements invoking God's name as justification for the invasion.

"God is a neutral observer in the affairs of man," the Pope said. "Man cannot march into war and assume God will be at his side."

In Rome, the pope called for "common efforts to spare humanity another dramatic conflict."

The Vatican stands by its view that a pre-emptive strike on Iraq is immoral unless backed by the United Nations, Laghi said.

"It's illegal, it's unjust," Laghi told reporters after the session with Bush.

http://web.sbu.edu/fcsc/pope_to_bush.htm

Then there's this...

With God on Our Side

by Bob Dylan

Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.

Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.

Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

I've learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

Onnnwwwaaarrrrddd!!!!!