Bloggers doubt Berg execution video

Bloggers doubt Berg execution video

By Lawrence Smallman

Thursday 13 May 2004, 17:18 Makka Time, 14:18 GMT


Was this really Nick Berg's last moment or was he killed earlier?

Revolting millions around the world, the video footage of an American citizen's execution has also raised numerous questions concerning its authenticity.

Even at first glance, internet bloggers were asking on Thursday why Nick Berg was wearing an orange jumpsuit – just like US prisoners wear.

Other net-surfers point to the unlikely timing of the executioner's dubbed announcement that Berg was to die for "Iraqi prisoner abuse".

Berg was last seen alive on 10 April, when his father Michael Berg believes he was killed - two weeks before the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal broke in the world's media.

Some discussions focus on the timing of the video's release - guaranteed to divert attention from the outrage regarding US torture of Iraqis.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/4FFA61A3-9C33-4597-A8D9-8079E91F2784.htm

It stinks.

He talks at the beginning of the video about where he's from, etc. During the killing scene he blinks and moves quite obviously.

The killers (whoever they are) didn't find him dead on the side of the road and decide to behead the corpse.

in an earlier DU thread yesterday--
Their point was that the tape was likely edited and it was obvious.
No,... no one said they found him on the side of the road-
-he may have been killed after the first part of the video was shot and then beheaded on edit after his death.
Many people who have witnessed necks being cut say that the blood squirting is extreme. That is one of the reasons they insist that his heart must not have been beating when the head was taken off...
sick shit.

no focus on the tortured prisoners and more cover up not releasing the photos.

Hizb Allah condemns beheading

Wednesday 12 May 2004 8:15 PM GMT


Hizb Allah leader Hasan Nasr Allah is a fierce anti-US critic

The Lebanese political group Hizb Allah has condemned the beheading of an American hostage in Iraq as an ugly crime that flouted the tenets of Islam.


In a statement on Wednesday the Lebanese Shia Muslim group said this act "has done very great harm to Islam and Muslims by this group that claims affiliation to the religion of mercy, compassion and humane principles".

An Islamist website on Tuesday carried a video clip of the execution of the man who identified himself as Nick Berg, with a statement saying a group linked to al-Qaida did it in revenge for the abuse of Iraqis by US troops.

Hizb Allah said Berg's killing had diverted the world's gaze from an escalating furore over the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by occupation soldiers.

Suspect timing

"The timing of this act that overshadowed the scandal over the abuse of Iraqi prisoners in occupation forces prisons is suspect timing that aims to serve the American administration and occupation forces in Iraq and present excuses and pretexts for their inhumane practices against Iraqi detainees."...>>


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/CCC52CD4-4303-44E8-AA41-D12F15478E76.htm

how could anyone doubt its authenticity

That would give some indication of when he was killed. And, the person in the video looks very slender. In one of the articles, there was mention that he was muscular and that the hotel workers hid the weights he had been using. This slender Berg looks as though he was held for some tine before his murder.

so what if a body was found on the bridge
the question is who really did this?
not if he is dead or not

is another matter, I would hope that if the body was in any state of decomposition it would give a timeframe as to when he died, by all accounts it seems as though this would indicate a fairly current event. Of course if it did happen earlier who would have access to a large enough refridgeration unit capable of cooling a body for any length of time?

Because that is how it was presented to you? Give me one GOOD reason why. You saw a video tape. I can make a video of Bush getting ass fucked by a kangaroo, rapping Aesop's fables in Greek. I can certainly make a really blurry one with out of sync sound. I can post this video on an offshore website, purchased with a stolen credit card, under a fictitious name....and call that website "Kangaroos in the Bush" Would such a video posted on such a site mean Bush has had his cherry popped by a Grecian Kangaroo who digs downbeats? Guess so, eh?

A large enough refrigeration unit capable of cooling a body for any length of time? Gee, I have one...it's in my kitchen. It's called a refrigerator. I'm not sure but I think there's flush toilets and refrigerators in iraq....there's white plastic chairs, at any rate.

RC

In the newsgroups you can get the 6 meg version that unfortunately shows in it's much more disgusting reality.

and it still looks bogus to me.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

"I can make a video of Bush getting ass fucked by a kangaroo, rapping Aesop's fables in Greek."

Don't make me want it, when I know I can't have it.

(Sure, that wasn't the point of your post, but damn it all, I want to see your video now.)

so why not enlighten me as to what really happened.

What I do know is that the "administration" has told LIES about the circumstances surrounding this mans exectution. I know they are lies because I have seen emails which support the argument the father of the man has made to this effect. I have seen NOTHING supporting the argument made by the "administration" aside from a REALLY shitty tape and baseless netwerk news propoganda.


RC

manner meant to elicit a huge reaction, No way do I think that we did this or even orchestrated it, this could only do harm to the occupation. In orchestrated I meant indirectly or directly.

,...not end it. I just thought I'd remind you of that.

how the heck did they ID the body on the bridge?

I heard on NPR yesterday that Berg was already planted 6 feet under.

I was quite curious to see if an autopsy would reveal whether he was alive or dead when decapitated.

It also would've been very revealing to know what kind of undigested food was in his belly.

Was his belly full or MRE's, Cheetos & Coke or was it flafel & tea?

,...but, I was thinking the Berg family would have an independent one conducted. Guess not.

it's the manner he died: the tape is made to look like he was alive when he was beheaded but there is a plausible theory that may not have been the case.

do make a difference sometimes


edit for sp

Let's GET THESE *BASTARDS!!!

...and apparently a lot of people agree. There's a link here that outlines some of the concerns that have been raised. Is anyone here motiviated enough to truly compile a thorough list of all the discrepancies, contradictions, etc, in both the video and the days leading up to the video's release?

This really stinks like a diversion tactic.

On edit: aljazeera.net seems to be swamped, so I haven't seen their story yet.

...I just don't know enough about analyzing video. I mean there are clearly some odd things that are obvious to a lot of people...but I don't know anything about picking it all apart. And honestly, I'm very confused by the timeline and have read 10's of conflicting reports about what was happening to Berg in his time in Iraq. Who's right? Who's to say?

Seems to me, though, that the Admin and the US media are trying to mak this al-Zarqawi guy the new Bin Laden. But how can they do that if he's already dead? I just can't sort any of it out.

I have been making my own list and lists of sources. Are you willing to take the lead on this? I will help all I can This thing is wrong and we can't let it go.Anyone else up for this?

I'm not sure. PM me. I've bookmarked the threads that contain all (or almost all) the published resources and have been just jotting notes in addition to a list.

BTW (on edit) I am also taking notes on a time line re circumstances surrounding the incident in addition to info about Berg himself.

....However, the circumstances of the video release are also strange. A Reuters journalist in Dubai first named the Muntada al-Ansar al-Islami website as the source for the video – at www.al-ansar.biz .

Although the site has now been shut down, Aljazeera.net had looked at the site within ninety minutes of the story breaking – and could find no such video footage.

But Fox News, CNN and the BBC were all able to download the footage from the Arabic-only website and report the story within the hour.


I thought it was odd that no Middle Eastern news sources broke this story or even reported on it until it has broken in the U.S....
I looked for coverage from various ME sources on the day this broke and found nothing.

But Berg IS dead, right? And his head is now off, right? An autopsy could say if the beheading was done post mortem. Has the family got the body yet? He's Jewish so the burial has to be fast.

Has anyone asked about the possibility of Berg being heavily sedated which would inhibit normal response?

What struck me as odd is that all the talk shows were saying the same thing. "Why so much concern with the prisoners and not with Berg" and using it to attack liberals. There never was any such thing happening. Not by liberals or anyone.

The timing and the mock outrage has me wondering.

the body came home to W Chester today...

The first link on DU was to "Northeast Intelligence Network".

This is the original link posted on DU, but of course, the video has been removed. It was available for at least a couple of hours on Thursday.

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/iraq2vediom.wmv

"Northeast Intelligence Network" is run by Douglas Hagmann. Doug is one of those self-made al Qaeda, terrorist 'experts' that Tom Ridge likes to use as one of his private intel sources. Odd that this fellow who is such a tool for HS, should be one of the first one to put this video out there?

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/faq.asp

I think maybe the Berg's or the FBI might want to ask Mr. Hagmann how he got this video?

can't seem to find it, but could swear it was here somewhere.

I read about the site listed by Reuters and the other article indicating the site had been shut down within 90 minutes of the initial release of the Berg article. Hours after the story was published here, we had two different posters "offer" two seperate sites with that same "iraq2vediom" id. What it means?

:shrug:

<on edit: the other two sites "offered" by those new posters (and I'm not going to put the whole link here) were http://drivehostnow.biz and http://www.soulsurvivors.net

All of a sudden a couple of sites pop up with this video and DU and all the blogger start grabbing the file. From there it gets picked up by the news media. Then these sites shut down and disappear.

Nice trick. Now the video is part of the mainstream and the sheeple just assume that it's another al Qaeda video from al Jazeera.

watch this video so I'm unable to give my 2 cents. You all are much braver than I! I don't want this image in my mind for the rest of my life.

I'm just so conditioned by TV that even real violence (or SUPPOSEDLY real violence) looks fake.

I gotta say, here's a good argument for the fakeness of this: it didn't effect me as much as a video of a random person jumping off a building. Watching the person hit the ground was much more disturbing than this video...because this DOES seem unreal in ways...no struggle, very little blood, etc.

The fact that the American media were the only ones to break this story the day the vid was posted....this makes me very very very suspicious.

http://www.ogrish.com/ I dont know which version it is and there is also another throat cutting video here, see ( bricklayer murdered by a co-worker ) for earlier poster abracadabra # 34. said ( Many people who have witnessed necks being cut say that the blood squirting is extreme. That is one of the reasons they insist that his heart must not have been beating when the head was taken off... ) you may get an idea about your theory I cant watch any of it .

,...but, it was rather brief and without sound. I am past sensitivities about it because the poor guy is dead and I feel compelled to study the evidence more carefully. I do recall that there was a puddling rather than spurting of blood one would normally expect.



Here's a list of my observations:


- the suspects have nearly every inch of their bodies covered

- only suspects eyes (and one cannot make out color) and hands show

- suspects hands are "pale"

- suspects are "chunky" and appear to be in a military standing position

- there is some question whether the garments worn by the suspects are authentic

- suspects are wearing either ammunition jackets or bullet-proof vests and there is a question of whether they match US gvt issued

- there has been an interpreter who indicated that the words aQ were NOT in the statement by the suspects (there were other inconsistencies but I cannot recall them at this time)

- the victim appears calm and without indication of stress while the suspects are both asking him to identify himself and as the suspects are making a "statement" for several minutes

- when a suspect pulls out a (small) knife, there is an 11 HOUR lapse until the beheading takes place

- the victim does not appear to jerk (involuntarily) or fight during the "event"

- the victim appears far thinner than in previous pictures (also, I have noted in recent photos that his hair color seems to have a reddish tint rather than the dark brown color in the video)

- no blood spray is apparent on walls or clothes or floor

- there appears to be a kind of tarp on the floor

- the yellow walls resemble those of the prison now under investigation

- victim is wearing prison garb and bare feet with restraints

- the knife used appears rather small

- the dismemberment seemed quick/easy considering the bone and cartlige and the small knife involved

- when the dismembered piece is held up, there appears to be little or no dripping

- there is (I believe) a 13 hr time lapse between the time the victim identifies himself and the time the suspects begin reading


That's about all I can recollect from memory based upon my brief review.

-Zarqawi missing a leg
-Zarquawi reported dead
-why would someone wear a ski mask to conceal his identity and then announce who he is
-the white chair looks just like the one from a picture in the Abu Garib prison, so does the wall
-the wall looks very institutional-
-the gold ring
-the orange jumpsuit
-accent not Jordanian
-clean sneakers
-reader is flipping pages in a strange way
-suspects in an "at ease" position
-the part in the chair is filmed about twenty minutes before the knife comes out ..that is the first clip at around 13:20ish. then it goes to the speech at 2:__ish some 11 hours earlier..then it skips forward to the beheading
-although it appears that the man in the middle(with a black ski mask) is the one doing the cutting, the one holding the head in the end has white headgear.

I will look at it again and get back to you.

It would be best if we could also add published sources to each item on the list.

the way over-compressed version. The one which shows it crystal clear is on some newsgroup, but I don't have the link now, sorry. But, it is something you can't unwatch.

DU... it is by no means crystal clear... is there a better version that anyone knows about?

I found a 56MB version on eMule. That's right..56MB. I bet it's crystal clear, perfect for analysis. When I get the courage up, I'll check it out. If I do get it, I'll produce a censored version immediately so that more people can safely analyze at least the whole part where the masked man is reading the statement.

is it emule.com? cause all I see there is British Royal Family fluff.

Instinctively one senses that this video is a farce.

If he was naked except for a bag over his head THEN he would be in official US military prisoner attire.

of yet another lie.

Won't ANYONE with inside info do the right thing?

what was it shakespeare said about 'something is rotten'?

and, what was it mark twain said about 'a lie'?

oh yes, i remember...

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."

nt

:eyes:

Who gives a fuck? They might as well start sourcing DU as a credible source of information.

Some of the best political analysis online is done by bloggers. Check out atrios.blogspot.com if you don't believe me. And there's more where that came from.