CNN: Was Berg in U.S. custody? Answers conflict

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/14/iraq.berg/

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A coalition spokesman said Friday that U.S. military police may have been at the Iraqi facility where Nicholas Berg was held before his murder, but he insisted that Berg was never in U.S. custody, as others believe.

"To our knowledge, he was detained by the Iraqi police in Mosul," coalition spokesman Dan Senor told CNN. "He was in Iraqi police custody. He was met by U.S. officials, he was visited three times by the FBI, but at all times, he was in Iraqi custody."

<snip>

Berg's body arrived Wednesday at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. His parents had requested permission to be at the base when the coffin arrived, but that request was denied. Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, said Thursday that refusal came from the Department of Defense.

...more...

Why deny a grieving family that small comfort?

The Berg family is on some kind of watch list for the DOD

Iraq will have "sovereignty". Our forces are staying, buy if we mess up, it won't be our fault. It'll be the Iraqis' fault, because they will have "sovereignty".

"Berg's body arrived Wednesday at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. His parents had requested permission to be at the base when the coffin arrived, but that request was denied. Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania, said Thursday that refusal came from the Department of Defense."

I was just going to post this, but I'm a newbie. Leave it to the DOD.

:hi:

My husband is a huge Laker fan...welcome!

Long time reader, first time poster (third, now). Here's another story I can't post being a newbie, but you might find it interesting (off-Berg-topic) regarding Abu Ghraib from today's Las Vegas paper...

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/May-14-Fri-2004/news/23881142.html

Welcome to DU! :hi:

he's a republican party spokesman. CNN could at least get that right.

:shrug:

worse. My step-dad and I had our tinfoil hats on last night and he is concerned with the timing of this video and the fact that the CPA are denying he was ever in the custody of the USA. We are both convinced, from hearing the father, that he was in our custody and they are denying it.

Since I don't believe a word that comes from our government, I am not sure if I should keep my tinfoil hat on or take it off. There is just something blatantly wrong with this story and I can't put my finger on it yet.

pictures:



from an "interrogation session"



still from the "video"

(images taken from http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=553391&mesg_id=553391)

(edited to add: look at the chair - it's at the prison and Berg is sitting in an identical chair)

I had this sense of dread fall over me last night when my step-dad and I were talking. We were talking about the "parade rest" stance, the timing of the video, the absolute eagerness to pin this on Zarqawi (who incidentally has a prosthetic leg according to MSNBC, the accent doesn't fit his, and the inconsistincies in the translation of the statement, etc. Let me make this clear, I am not defending Zarqawi, I know he is a terrorist. I know he is dangerous.) The fact that the CPA is absoulutely denying he was in their custody even though Berg's dad has proof that he was. Anyway, this sense of dread fell over me because for a minute the thought crossed my mind that the CIA did this to him. It is almost like a copycat of Daniel Pearl, they get to put a face on the enemy and they can hope it will draw attention from the prison abuse. What I am saying is there is motive. I am not sure that I believe that but the thought crossed my mind.

I am trying to withold judgement until more information comes out but damn, there is something seriously wrong with this story.

Of course it was black ops! This stops release of any more photos or videos, and it sends a huge message to the anti-war group or at least Berg's father got the message I bet. The whole military operation in Iraq is based on a lie. When you're living in a lie, nothing is ever what it seems, and truth is bare minimum if it's there at all. Consider the source.

I don't usually wear tinfoil, in fact have never worn it before, but this is causing me to begin fashioning a tinfoil hat. Every item that comes out on this tragedy just adds one more piece to my hat.

and neither has my step-dad. I guess we are usually more "practical" in our thought process but this story almost begs for tinfoil hatters.

here are hats for all feeling like I do:

:tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat::tinfoilhat:

:tinfoilhat:
I need one!
:hi:
The Cloak of Invisibility the administration has been using is losing its power, it seems. And the more of their true image comes out of the mist, the godawful uglier it is.

The movie "Missing" is about this American citizen's disappearance and execution in Chile during Pinochet's coup.

State Department Release on Chile Shows Suspicions of CIA Involvement in Charles Horman "Missing" Case

On October 8, 1999, the U.S. Government released 1100 documents on Chile. Among them is a declassified State Department report on the case of Charles Horman, an American citizen who was killed by the Chilean military in the days following the coup.

This document was released once before in 1980, pursuant to a lawsuit filed by the Horman family. At that time, significant portions were blacked out.

The version released today reveals what was censored: the State Department's conclusions that the CIA may have had "an unfortunate part" in Horman's death.

For complete copies of documents released today, see the State Department's web site at http://foia.state.gov. Here we are providing both versions of this newsworthy document.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/19991008/

I can understand that. It takes some getting used to.

But now, there are only three reasons one might deny the possibility of CIA collusion in an American's death: ignorance, self-deception or disinformation.

or what Bush would say it is. I say the BUSH PEOPLE are ALL traitors!

can these people be done with the "in Iraqi custody" meme AS IF that might be ACTALLY DISTINCT FROM "in US custody" -- geeeezzz

oh ya, and then there's those pesky little e-mails Berg's parents got from State's diplomatic reps ACKNOWLEDGING that Berg was in the custody of U.S. authorities ...

from the US forces that train and organize them? To say that Berg was in the custody of Iraqi police strongly implies that that there must have been American authorities all over the place at the same time too.

Why no mention of the emails the family has from Beth Payne? Has anyone talked to her? Is she just sitting in Iraq making shit up? CNN is worthless.

of the News Journal - http://www.delawareonline.com. The title on the front page of the hard copy is "Family releases e-mails that say victim was in U.S. custody". I can't find the online piece.

Anyway, there are text of e-mails from Beth A. Payne, a U.S. consular officer in Baghdad, to members of the family of Nick Berg. Copies of the e-mails were provided to the AP by the Berg family.

The one dated 4/1 at 5:23a.m. to Suzanne Berg begins:
"I have been able to confirm that your son is being detained by the U.S. military."

would US authorities (and they do not deny that the FBI had seen Berg on three, separate occaisions) leave a JEWISH American CIVILIAN in Iraqi custody??? It just makes no sense whatsoever....

make sure he wasn't involved in terrorist activities? A jewish terrorist fighting jihad?

Therefore, if Berg was in Iraqi custody, he was in U.S. custody, ESPECIALLY since he is a U.S. citizen?

So Iraqi police can detain U.S. citizens? I guess we will hear about the arrest of those U.S. contract workers who abused those prisoners any day now. No, wait, I guess it depends on how they are using the definition of who "is a U.S. citizen," which changes according who is the citizen. No, wait, I'm confused.

:freak::shrug:

jones

here's another CNN article and please note the bolded words:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/14/abuse.graner/

excerpt:

"He went to his chain of command. He questioned some of the interrogation techniques, and he was told as a soldier he was to follow orders and that intelligence wants additional information," Bergrin told CNN's American Morning. (Senators question interrogation techniques)

Davis' superiors, Bergrin said, told the specialist it was important to "break the prisoners" in order to "save the lives of innocent soldiers on the outside and civilians and individuals like Nicholas Berg."

Berg was the Pennsylvania businessman whose beheading was videotaped and posted on a Web page this week. The abuses depicted in the photographs took place last fall.

His client, Bergrin said, committed "certain acts but didn't commit on any criminal acts."

...more...

Okay (donning my new :tinfoilhat:) How could he receive this "save the life of Nicholas Berg" message before that had even happened??????

the military guys, but rather more likely that Bergrin was illustrating the instructions with his own example. At the time the abuse was said to have taken place (in Taguba's report, which is what started all this), the U.S. didn't seem to have known much if anything about Berg even being there. I don't see this comment as indicative of anything -- just a figure of speech.

What kind of fools do you think there are here at DU?
So now we are going to just "not read too much into this" because you say?
Who are YOU?
What do you have to back up your dismissal of extremely conflicting reports?
Is that how they do it on the 'conservative' web forums?
just dismiss it?

and Eloriel has a very good point -

from the article and the placement of the quotation marks, it was hard to figure out who was saying what.

Thanks Eloriel for keeping your eye on the ball and giving a reasonable explanation for something that disturbed me. :)

After reading the text I would have to agree with Eloriel. Save your venom for direct attacks against you or for the obvious Freeper types who sling their drivel on this board. We will need it.

Jay

This may be hard to follow, but bear with me.

I posted this story in LBN at 12:20pm (1620GMT) because it's time stamp was 12:05pm and I did not see anything posted about this, in LBN, before 12:05(1605GMT). You posted the article at 10:42am (14:42GMT). How were you able to post a story at 10:42am that was not uploaded to CNN's servers until 12:05pm? This tells me that the story was changed somewhere between 10:42 and 12:20. I would like to know what changed. Does anyone have a copy of the original (10:42am) piece?

Jay

I wish I had an answer for you -

I am CST, so am used to having EST be a different time than mine - so don't usually pay much attention to the time stamp :shrug:

But you are right - the time stamp of this CNN article states that I could not have had access to it at the time of my original post. It was there - I read it - I posted to LBN.

I just re-read the article (I did not save the original to my harddrive) and it appears to be the same as the one that I posted.

(except my own paranoia)if they are going to update the story they should make it clear that they have done so instead of just applying a new date/time stamp. Especially after all of the scrubbing that went on when the war started.

Jay

that the family has been receiving LOTS of phone calls from people everywhere.. Also, the family has blocked the media from attending the services this afternoon and anyone who isn't known to them, will be arrested...Wonder if anyone has called and discussed the above info w/ them?

I swear I turned on CNN yesterday afternoon and they had some "news- babe" reporting from the parents front yard. It was like a scene from "The Right Stuff".

Jay

Is lurking here.