'No-kids' mom is pregnant, family says

Woman apparently conceived fifth child before judge's ruling.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/news/0514MK48HHG_news.shtml

A Rochester woman who has been ordered to have no more children until she redeems the four she lost to foster care is pregnant with her fifth child, family members say.
The 35-year-old woman apparently became pregnant in mid-March before the no-pregnancy order by Monroe County Family Court Judge Marilyn L. O’Connor took effect.

The woman was a no-show Thursday at a court proceeding that was the first step toward determining whether the foster parents of one of her children can adopt him.

Family members who attended in her behalf said afterward that she’s pregnant, according to Barbara deLeeuw, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Rochester.

--snip--


I don't even know where I stand on this one, but, to quote Rick James, "cocaine is one hell of a drug". There is a section later in the article that I can't seem to copy at the moment that says she was arrested for prostitution after offering to perform a sex act with a police officer for $15 which she later dropped to $10 and offered to have sex with both the officer AND his partner. It also said that 3 of her 4 previous children had tested positive for cocaine at birth.
The judge ordered the county to provide free family-planning services to the couple. The ACLU is trying to intervene on behalf of the couple, but can't locate them.

..."cocaine is one hell of a drug".

They were putting up bill boards in bad neighborhoods offering to give drug addicts a cash reward for undergoing sterilization procedures..about 10 years ago I think

or KRACK or some play on words.

on edit:
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/bioethics/9906/ethics.matters/

yup, CRACK - children require a caring kommunity

thread where a man was ordered to stop having children, at least as long as he couldn't pay support for the ones he had.


I works both ways. Some were concerned that "only men" were being called out.

I don't think people have a "right" to have children they have no intention or ability to care for.

Are we back to eugenics yet?

Seriously, why the fuck don't people use birth control? It's not like condoms are cost-prohibitive (unlike unwanted babies....)

a check.

the number of people financing or attempting to fiance their drug addiction from welfare checks is staggering. I'm sorry i know this is flame bait but I have seen it first hand

you can afford to pay by a welfare check. Maybe alcohol?

While I think its wrong morally to have children you can't care for, I also think it's morally wrong to impose your reproductive will on another. This is the flip side of choice.

on the side of caution. :shrug:

would be issued to her for them, but to the foster families.

to buy drugs...

In my opinion people who are on welfare are there for many reasons..

1. People who have fallen on hard times and use it as a safety net until they get on their feet.

2. Mentally ill people are on welfare, some get proper treatment but there are many that use street drugs to medicate their problems. However that said...there are middle class men and women who fritter away their money on drug and alcohol habits.

3. A lot of educationally and socially neglected adults are on welfare...for instance my cousin is on welfare...her mother never stressed education or taught her daughter any life skills to help her make good decisions (granted we all aren't perfect)...and now she is a 36 year old woman with a high school degree (she is lucky to have that at least) and not many skills that make her employable for high wage paying jobs...so she cycles into the welfare system frequently...it is really quite sad and her eldest child just dropped out of high school...so he is starting out life on a rung lower than his mother...it is sad and disheartening..

...there are many more...situations and until I have walked in their shoes I try hard not to judge...

All people on Welfare are on drugs.

but a large number of drug addicted mothers are. Also even some that arn't addicted but are Co-addict / enabler. some times it is their boy friend or father of the child who has the main addiction

crack/cocaine addicted themselves...its the cycle of endless poverty...and it takes a monumental amount of will power and sacrifice to get out of that situation.

It's funny when I see surburban women complain about how much will power it takes to diet so they can lose 15lbs or so...and in another breath they will blather on about how the disadvantaged should pull themselves up by their bootstraps to make their lives better...so somehow their struggle with whether to eat danish is a great life stuggle....life is full of irony for me...

So very sad.

I understand what you're saying and agree with it, for the most part, but recognize that condoms, like most birth control, don't always work 100% of the time. I'm a college graduate, I knew all about birth control, my ex-fiance and I used condoms every time and I still got pregnant shortly after my college graduation. That was fourteen years ago, but I'll never forget my shock when I first learned I was pregnant.

But I do agree that it is totally irresponsible not to use something each and every time you have sex, no matter what, especially if you've gotten pregnant before without using anything. And people who cannot care for their children financially, emotionally, and physically have no business having them in the first place. I've known far too many cases of people being unable and even unwilling to care for their children, and have no concept at all of putting the children first before themselves and their needs, and the children are the ones who suffer. And so does the society that has to clean up these people's messes.

there are people who are very poor who have kids and they all grow up to be successful and happy...wealth is not a prerequisite for parenthood.

I think we need more sex ed and life skills classes to help spread the word that children are a responsibility not play toys...

I have a friend who has a lot of money but she is a horrible parent...I have a neighbor who has 5 kids and the 4 year old and 18 month old are always crossing the streets to visit people...just to get attention...they have a nice home, money but apparently not much energy to care for their children... I fear for those kid's safety.

they never seem to have adult pets.. I know that drug abuse is not the reason for THAT, but these women who keep having children taken away from them, and then continue to have more, are psychologically ill. Probably a lot of them see that brand new baby as "another chance" to "get it right" this time, but they have no parenting skills, and as that tiny little baby turns into the demanding being that they ALL become, the Moms cannot handle it..

Just as that cute little fluff ball will someday turn into a gigantic dog, or an aloof cat, some folks like the "baby-ness" of the experience, but when it gets to the really hard part, they don't want any part of it..

If we had legalized drugs, and had them register, and receive medical care, lots of these Moms would have close enough scrutiny to actually counsel them against pregnancy, or at least time to try and get them to have the norplant or maybe even tubal ligation for the ones who have had multiple children, and decide that they don't want more..

a problem in their lives...

1. Bad marriages are not made better by having kids...if your husband is considering divorce or separation...a new baby is not the answer.

2. Babies don't give you love...they take...they take diaper changes, food, and lots of attention and they are the ones who need all the loving. When your baby is old enough to say mama or papa and hug you back then you finally start to get some of that love...but they are still taking...(it's a good taking but it's taking)

and there are dozens more...

I also agree, I think if drug use were legalized and drug addicts received attention they might be less likely to have children they can't care for....because I doubt in a drug-induced haze anyone is worried about birth control..

WHY??? She loved "babies"... She was a basket case when they were all teenagers, but luckily for her, she had a husband who made BIG BUCKS, and they always had hired help, but when the oldest hit 16, and the ones behind were creeping along right behind him, she had an epiphany... Those "babies" were a gigantic PITA..

Thankfully, they survived it all, but had they been a poor family, heaven only knows what would have become of that family :(..

That woman spent almost 12 years...PREGNANT...and no, they were not catholic or mormon.. She had been an only child, and decided that she wanted lots of babies..

But people who have proven that they will only neglect whatever children they have.

I am disturbed when children are too lightly taken away, when what they need is a little help, but they are doing the best they can.

And yes, I agree that money does not buy a good parent.


It is even tricky with those who have proven to be neglectful. What is the reasonable way for society to deal with neglectful parents who keep having children. Certainly they should be offered birth control assistance, at least.

Some may need help getting off drugs. They probably won't get it, though, eh? We're spending all our money rebuilding countries that we destroy.

life, government intervention. I have dealt with this kind of thing for many years. There are women who want to have children because the children give their life some kind of purpose, it seems. Yet, they don't have the wherewithal to adequately care for the children, and the children simply suffer and are then condemned to the same cycle of life as the mother.

It is very sad situation. And I, frankly, don't know the answer.

There is a guy in our small community who is the father of four children, all by different mothers. What can be done there? I feel for the children who are mired in poverty and may stay there.

free market, laissez faire capitalism.

have to be demonized by society..
of the tax dollars that come out of my pocket...I think those spent on the welfare of children and adults in need are the best spent.

Wow, that phrase just sounds horrible in this context . . . if there are any social workers out there, is this a term of art? What exactly does it refer to -- her getting the kids back, surrendering them for adoption, or what?

Thanks in advance.

This is wrong. We cannot make women slaves to their biology. Wrong, wrong, wrong! We cannot support forced pregnancy, forced abortions, forced sterilizations or forced "birth control." How can you order someone NOT to become pregnant? This is tantamount to saying "Don't have sex!" It's wrong.