CNN World breaking: Indian stock market crashing

Just saw at 10pm Pacific time, Indian stock market is crashing, trading halted, down over 10% at halt.

Scary.

Does India have some Enrons in their stock market closet that might now see the light of day?

did well in the elections and will form a coalition to lead the country. in the short term this may look bad, but it should be good long term because the success of the economy only benefited some and left many behind. those who benefited and dealt in the markets are reacting to this. but hopefully the socialists and communists will be able to revive the economy so all benefit, not just the few.

There's what, close to a billion people in India right? There isn't enough wealth in the US let alone India to spread it around that much and see any results. Command economies have a hard enough time working in small but natural resource rich countries. How the hell can one secede in a country as large as India? The sad reality is there is no way to significantly improve the lives of even half of them. The best thing to do is get out of the way. Look at China. They took the controls off of their economies and see what has happened? Now, there are still hundreds of millions of Chinese who have not benefited from their growth. But other hundreds of millions have. Fund services that help mitigate the suffering of the poor, but let's not delude ourselves that poverty can be legislated away.

Unless, of course we want poverty for all.

socialists and communists are very good at making everyone suffer equally - except the party leaders of course.

unlike us, where now only the non-wealthy suffer.

so why then does Cuba have one of the top few life expectancies in the Americas? Or for the socialist comparison, I hear Sweden is quite a cushy place to live.

Which means part of the equation is missing. Could it be the government tries to work for the good of all of the people, instead of just for the rich and well to do?

that would mean human beings are motivated by more than greed... OMG you gotta be kidding me!

but one never knows, some could be confused and start thinking that way.

http://www.terebess.hu/english/watts.html#beat

Beat Zen, Square Zen, and Zen
by Alan Watts
Orignial version as published the spring 1958 issue of the Chicago Review
http://www.bluesforpeace.com/beat_zen.htm

It is as difficult for Anglo-Saxons as for the Japanese to absorb anything quite so Chinese as Zen. For though the word "Zen" is Japanese and though Japan is now its home, Zen Buddhism is the creation of T'ang dynasty China. I do not say this as a prelude to harping upon the ncommunicable subtleties of alien cultures. The point is simply that people who feel a profound need to justify themselves have difficulty in understanding the viewpoints of those who do not, and the Chinese who created Zen were the same kind of people as Lao-tzu, who, centures before, said, "Those who justify themselves do not convince." For the urge to make or prove oneself right has always jiggled the Chinese sense of the ludicrous, since as both Confucians and Taoists-however different these philosophies in other ways-they have invariably appreciated the man who can "come off it." To Confucius it seemed much better to be human-hearted then righteous, and to the great Taoists, Lao-tzu and Chang-tzu, it was obvious that one could not be right without also being wrong, because the two were as inseparable as back and front. As Chang-tzu said, "Those who would have good government without its correlative misrule, and right without its correlative wrong, do not understand the principles of the universe."

To Western ears such words may sound cynical, and the Confucian admiration of "reasonableness" and compromise may appear to be a weak-kneed lack of commitment to principle. Actually they reflect a marvelous understanding and respect for what we call the balance of nature, human and otherwise-a universal vision of life as the Tao or way of nature in which the good and evil, the creature and the destructive, the wise and the foolish are the inseparable polarities of existence. "Tao," said the Chung-yung, "is that from which one cannot depart. That from which one can depart is not the Tao." Therefore wisdom did not consist in trying to wrest the good from the evil but learning to "ride" them as a cork adapts itself to the crests and troughs of the waves. At the roots of Chinese life there is a trust in the good-and-evil of one's own nature which is pecularly foreign to those brought up with the chronic uneasy conscience of the Hebrew-Christian cultures. Yet it was always obvious to the Chinese that a man who mistrusts himself cannot even trust his mistrust, and must therefore be hopelessly confused.
(snip)

1st in the world in per capita income, health care, education, infant morality...

There have been no socialist/communist systems with despots ruling. If despots are ruling a country, it isn't socialism/communism. Socialism must be democratic by definition. If the system isn't democratic, it isn't socialism. It's a totalitarian dictatorship masquerading behind the trappings of socialism.

Its democracy.

Plus Congress party is hardly socialist!
Remember before the rise of the BLP, Congress Party was the center party if not center-right, to the Janata Dal center-left party. Communist party is to the left of Janata Dal. I suppose some may argue Janata Dal is socialist, but it is no more left than governing parties in Scandanavia.

And its no surprise that some profiteers would sell right now.
Does not necessarily mean long term trend.

But it's stupid to say that about socialists. Most western Europeans and Canadians aren't exactly 'suffering'. And virtually every politician in those countries is socialist, to one degree or another.

But don't bother differentiating between socialists and communists. It might hurt your head.

Do you even think before you write? The Swede's have a much higher standard of living than Americans do plus health care for all and a much better education.

Used to be center-right to Janata Dal center-left until rise of far right BJP.

Because the primary function of government is the protection and aggregation of capital?

Socialist governments threaten capital because they often commit the sins of land reform, nationalization of resources & infrastructure, and increased taxes on the upper class. Also they like to 'waste' money on things like guaranteed food, clothing, health care, education for the poor; instead of useful things like building nuclear bombs and engaging in war.

Capital FEARS and punishes leftwing politics by moving itself to pro-wealth states.

You can hardly blame them though. In some sense, any investor who 'stays in' right now is foolish, because the reaction is so predictable. So as long as a significant portion of investors react this way, the majority will go right along with it. It's a vicious cycle.

This type of 'capital flight' occurred in many Latin American countries under similar circumstances.

Not a good day for Asian markets overall, Bombay's index just hit hardest....

the Center a bit left scares them that much?

let's hope it's not a sign of things to come here.

Remember, this goes in order...

Asia, India, Europe, US.

2 down? Could be an interesting day.

Asian economies are dependent on fermented dinosaur blood, too, especially Japan, Korea and Taiwan. India increasingly uses oil and I imagine the oil rise just added fuel to the fire, so to speak.

India's markets slump after vote

Indian financial markets tumbled amid concerns the country's new government will delay asset sales.

The Bombay stock exchange's Sensex index closed 6.1% lower, it's biggest daily decline in three years.

BBC

They must be used to some extreme volitility over there!

15% last I looked.

Previously it has been pretty stable over there for the last two years or so.

originally said 6.1% less than an hour ago. Now it appears to be a crash greater than 15%.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3719833.stm

Indian shares have fallen more than 10% amid fears that the new government could stall economic reforms.
The Bombay Stock Exchange crashed more than 500 points as soon as trading opened, the biggest opening fall in its history.

It comes as Sonia Gandhi is set to become the new prime minister following her Congress party's victory in the general election.

Left-wing parties are still considering whether to join her new government.

MORE -

translation.. The new PM probably has in mind, a few goodies for the poor people who have been waiting..F O R E V E R to have their needs addressed..

It may not be good stock market policy, but I can tell you this.. Poor people who have enough food, a job and a decent place to live, do not usually pick up guns or sit around making bombs..

Right winger Indians... GET OVER IT..MOVE ON.. Start making money by working, instead of fleecing the poor to pad the pockets of the rich..

optimism about the future rose 10% among lower income Indians, none of whom hold any stock investments

Remember back in the double-ought when (P)rick Cheney hauled out the "R-word"? The markets dumped right there and Our Fearless Leaders have since tried to pin responsibility on everone except themselves.

My pals who saw it coming got the hell out with their piles and played duck and cover. I never put a dime into the market, myself. We bottom feeders are truly secure in our poverty. That's why it's so important to find those people--we, the people--and teach us how to vote.

Government fears hit India shares

Indian shares have fallen nearly 11% amid fears that the new government could stall economic reforms.

The Bombay Stock Exchange crashed by more than 500 points as soon as trading opened, the biggest opening fall in its history.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3719833.stm

BBC went from 6.1% to 10% to 11% in ten minutes....

SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Crude oil hit a new record high on Monday, knocking down Asian stocks already weakened by the prospect of a slowing Chinese economy and an early U.S. interest rate rise.

Stock markets in oil dependent South Korea, Taiwan and Japan were hardest hit. The U.S. dollar eased against both the euro and the Japanese yen, helping firm the spot gold price. Japanese government bonds gained as investors fled stocks.

Taiwan's main TAIEX share index slumped as much as 5.5 percent, hit by the oil price surge and a warning by China that it would crush any independence moves by President Chen Shui-bian "firmly and thoroughly at any cost."

Seoul's benchmark Korea Composite Stock Price Index (KOSPI) dived five percent to a seven-month low. Tokyo's Nikkei stock average was down 3 percent at its lowest since mid-February, extending the index's 12 percent fall since it hit a 33-month closing high on April 26.

http://news.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=businessNews&storyID=5159183

(Bloomberg) -- Asian stocks slumped after oil prices climbed to a 21-year high, threatening to slow global economic growth. Samsung Electronics Co. and Advantest Corp. led declines.

``A rise in oil prices would mean a profit squeeze for companies, which isn't good news,'' said Kiyohide Nagata, who helps manage about $3.2 billion at Invesco Asset Management (Japan) Ltd. in Tokyo.

The Morgan Stanley Capital International Asia-Pacific Index, which tracks more than 850 stocks in the region, shed 2.3 percent to 81.25, its lowest since Nov. 25, at 1:53 p.m. in Tokyo. Except for New Zealand's NZSX 50 Index, all others in the region fell.

UFJ Holdings Inc. led declines among Japanese banks after the Yomiuri newspaper said the lender will report a full-year loss because of provisions for bad loans. The Nikkei 225 Stock Average slid 2.8 percent to 10,548.10.

Taiwan's Taiex Index tumbled 5 percent after China warned President Chen Shui-bian three days before his inauguration for a second term that he must accept Chinese sovereignty or ``face destruction by playing with fire.''

Finance ministers and central bankers at an Asian Development Bank meeting in South Korea said higher oil prices and the prospect of higher interest rates are the biggest threats to the fastest Asian economic growth in four years.

India's Mumbai stock exchange halted trading for an hour after the Sensex slid 10.9 percent. The benchmark had dropped 6.1 percent Friday after the new government, led by Sonia Gandhi's Congress party, said it won't sell profitable state assets.

The Securities and Exchange Board of India, the market regulator, is investigating Friday's decline, it said in a statement obtained by fax this morning.

Boosting Cash

Samsung Electronics, South Korea's largest exporter, plunged 5.1 percent to 466,500 won. Japan's Advantest, the world's biggest maker of equipment used to test computer-memory chips, dropped 4.8 percent to 7,220 yen.

Crude oil for June delivery rose as much as 0.7 percent to $41.65 a barrel in after-hours electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange at 12:12 p.m. Singapore time. June crude oil reached $41.38 a barrel Friday, the highest close in the 21-year history of the contract.

``Historically when oil prices remain high, stock markets haven't done well,'' said Steven Lim, who helps manage about $290 million at Daiwa SB Investments in Singapore. ``Investors will probably go to cash now.''

Crude oil futures may rise for a fourth week, according to a Bloomberg News survey of traders and analysts. Nineteen of 35 respondents, or 54 percent, predicted that the futures will rise this week. Crude oil has jumped 12 percent in three weeks.

Bad Loans

Japan's Topix index lost 2.8 percent to 1060.62, with banks accounting for more than 15 percent of its decline.

UFJ sank 8.1 percent to 514,000 yen. Japan's fourth-largest bank, which on April 28 reported a full-year profit of 78 billion yen ($682.6 million) for the previous fiscal year, is writing down more loans at the urging of the government, Yomiuri reported.

The bank said it's calculating earnings that will be reported on May 24, and detailed figures haven't been set. Executives of the company's UFJ Bank Ltd. unit may have to resign to take blame for the deteriorating earnings, according to the report, without saying where it obtained the information.

Mizuho Financial Group Inc., the nation's largest lender, slid 5.1 percent to 412,000 yen. Mitsubishi Tokyo Financial Group Inc., Japan's second largest, lost 5.9 percent to 820,000 yen.

`Severely Tested'

The Taiex tumbled 278.44 to 5498.88, set for its third day of declines. The last time the index had a bigger slide was on May 5, when it sank 5.4 percent.

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., the island's largest company by market value, lost 4.6 percent to NT$52.50. Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Taiwan's largest electronics maker, dropped 3.5 percent to NT$124.50.

``China is putting pressure on Chen to make sure he doesn't breach the line when he gives his inaugural speech,'' said Yu Reming, who manages the $148 million Balanced Fund at Prudential Securities Investment Trust Co. in Taipei. ``China is aiming to preempt Chen from pushing for Taiwan's independence.''

Relations between the two are ``severely tested,'' according to a statement issued by agencies of the Communist Party and the State Council, China's cabinet.

The text, published by the official Xinhua news agency, accused Chen of duplicity by pledging to keep the status quo in cross-Strait relations while pushing for independence.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=71000001&refer=asia&sid=aQWPHcIGQR18

http://www.reuters.com/



SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Crude oil hit a new record high on Monday, knocking down Asian stocks already weakened by the prospect of a slowing Chinese economy and an early U.S. interest rate rise.

Stock markets in oil dependent South Korea, Taiwan and Japan were hardest hit. The U.S. dollar eased against both the euro and the Japanese yen, helping firm the spot gold price. Japanese government bonds gained as investors fled stocks.

Taiwan's main TAIEX share index slumped as much as 5.5 percent, hit by the oil price surge and a warning by China that it would crush any independence moves by President Chen Shui-bian "firmly and thoroughly at any cost."

Seoul's benchmark Korea Composite Stock Price Index (KOSPI) dived five percent to a seven-month low. Tokyo's Nikkei stock average was down 3 percent at its lowest since mid-February, extending the index's 12 percent fall since it hit a 33-month closing high on April 26.

Crude oil futures hit an all-time high of $41.64 a barrel in electronic trade, up 26 cents from Friday's New York close. There are worries that tight world oil supply may fail to meet peak summer driving demand for gasoline in the United States.

On Wall Street, the Dow Jones industrial average had notched its third straight weekly fall on Friday as investors fretted about rocketing oil prices and rising interest rates.......>>

http://finance.yahoo.com/m2?u

Monday, May 17 2004 1:47am ET - U.S

I thought they shut down trading after it went down 10%...

I guess they keep adding up all those transaction slips prior to the halted trading and it comes to 15% drop. Momentum!

That's the only explanation that I can think of :shrug:

win the election.
The whole economy would be forced to collapse and the rightwingers would form a kind of emergency government.
For me there's hope that this government might be serious...

Hello from Germany,
Dirk

Market Report
...
This is the second time the trading has been suspended today. The market regulator had first stepped in around 10.20 am, after the Sensex shed over 500 points in just 20 minutes of early deals.

Trading resumed for barely three minutes at 11:15 am before it was suspended again for another two hours, as the Sensex eroded further.
...
High alert
...
On Sunday, market regulator SEBI has sounded a high alert, and asked stock markets to remain extraordinarily watchful of any unusual movements.

"The stock exchanges have to report any unusual movements immediately to SEBI, in addition to taking action themselves", the market watchdog said in a release. (With PTI inputs)

http://www.ndtv.com/money/markets.asp#stop1

I've been planning to do this for the last couple of days, but after jumping online and reading about this mess, I decided to do it online this wee a.m. hour.

I've been thinking the U.S. market was finally going to shake itself clean any day now, and I can't really see anything in bush's economy (or bush's politics, nationally or internationally) that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about a secure financial future.

You guys are soooo on top of things! Thanks! I hope my trade goes through 1st thing as the market opens today. I have a feeling that we're going to have a busy day in the USA tomorrow, as well, due to all the world markets shaking and quaking. If we -- our market-- can hold our breath, it may not hit us today. But I don't see the PPT being able to hold things up forever. Our economy just looks like a bunch of smoke and mirrors to me.

:tinfoilhat: I don't believe anything I hear from our teevee economists anymore.


:kick:

if you believe the markets will decline further, you can profit from it (even in a 401k) by buying a short fund like URPIX or URPSX. I went short too early but am holding -- it's a good move at least until October.

I, too, feel that somewhere in the August/September time frame, we're due for some truly serious market activity. Our country is creating such instability in the world, that the illusion global corporations are trying to achieve just can't continue to succeed.

They're trying to make it appear that cornering all the wealth at the top is somehow good for the little guy. As a "little guy", I can tell you, it "just ain't so"!

This country is becoming nearly as bankrupt as Russia was prior to their fall, due to dubya's crime family actions. And when the bottom falls out, it's going to make the Great Depression look like prosperous times.

:kick::kick:

take a look at this if you haven't seen it already:

"As the stock market topped earlier this year, we began to hear the phrase 'bubble echo' emanate from a few erudite and savvy analysts. Right on the mark! The perfect bear market has an initial decline followed by a significant rally to suck in those who either didn't buy the first time around or who then feel compelled to 'average down' or who are just ignorant of valuations -- still rich despite lower prices..."

http://www.cross-currents.net/charts.htm

---

It's updated every couple of months or so with new text and charts. Very persuasive. Nice archives and commentary as well.

about. When you couple the hard data in that site with the insanity going on in the bush administration, you see an even more desperate picture.

That link also "nails it" as regards to why companies are cutting jobs and other costs to eek out a tiny dividend to shareholders: the stock options held by upper management go down when dividends are paid, due to the depression of the price of the stock w/ dividend payouts. The insiders have been trying to keep stock prices higher, because they're all dumping their shares! Pretty freakin' spooky.

Thanks for the link, ribofunk!

:kick::kick:

:scared:

What's next? A small plane crashes somewhere in the U.S.?

Containing someone sane, of course. The wackos never seem to die in these 'accidents'.

:tinfoilhat:

tonite. It hit an electric transmission line, and knocked out power to RDU Airport. They broke in on the regularly scheduled programming to tell North Carolinians about it.

Nobody was sure yet who was on the plane, and they couldn't get to it because the electric lines were spagetti all over the place.

I hope it wasn't someone sane....like a Democrat by any name!
:kick:

there ya go.

They just can't let us live, can they?

A small plane crashes, the victims are not known and you cry foul that Democrats are targeted in small planes? How did you make that leap?

This might have something to do with it.

Whenever a government is elected that is likely to do something for
the poorest sections of its community, there's panic on the stock
exchange, and shares are dumped wildly.

Fears that India will "stall economic reforms" means fears that Sonia
Gandhi won't cut welfare or oversee the sacking of thousands of
people from their jobs.

Makes me sick.

the dumping of shares is done precisely to put pressure on any new government to perpetuate the status quo. It is agression, and in this case it seems most of it is being done by foreign investors desperate to keep exploiting India's poor. Scum.

Analysts say the market crashed after foreign institutional investors, who had invested some $10bn in the Indian stock markets over the past year, began to sell heavily.

SNIP

Investors fear the Communists, who hold the key to the new government, would block economic reforms especially privatisation of state-owned companies.

Congress Party officials played down the fears.

"I wish to assure the investing community our policies will be pro-growth and pro-savings," senior Congress leader and former finance minister Manmohan Singh told the BBC.

"We are not going to reverse the good work that was done in the past 10-12 years," he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3719833.stm

I agree.

You'd think the markets would go up because more people will be lifted from the lowest classes and able to contribute to the economy.

looks like it's rumbling through our markets too
-- bloody monday?

http://money.cnn.com/markets/morning_call/
U.S. FUTURES & MARKETS INDICATORS
Jun 2004 Change Price Last updated
S&P 500† -14.00 1080.70 5/17 4:22
Fair Value 1094.81 5/14 18:53
Difference * -14.11 5/14 18:53

Jun 2004 Change Price Last updated
NASDAQ† -24.00 1376.00 5/17 4:21
Fair Value 1400.99 5/14 18:53
Difference * -24.99 5/14 18:53

Jun 2004 Change Price Last updated
DOW JONES† -121.00 9876.00 5/17 4:18
DJIA contracts

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WORLD MARKET SNAPSHOT (extended list)
Market Last Pts. Change % Change Time
FTSE 100 4376.70 -65.10 -1.47% 09:33
XETRA-DAX 3719.00 -84.10 -2.21% 10:33
CAC 40 3530.14 -73.12 -2.03% 10:33
HANG SENG 10967.65 -309.21 -2.74% closed
NIKKEI 225 10505.05 -344.58 -3.18% closed
last update: 05/17 04:33 ET

This aughta be one wild ride! <both hands in the air...wild ride screams piercing the air>

:kick::kick:

the chances of the new government? sounds like an attempt at sabotage to me - fueled by fears that wealth might be more equitably distributed. Paul Krugman will have useful analysis.

the world might be a better place.

NEW DELHI, (AFP) - Novelist Arundhati Roy rejoices that Sonia Gandhi, who "doesn't play the princess," humbled the men who berated her and warns she will face a "blatant game" from a corporate world unmoved by the electoral verdict of India's poor.

SNIP

Roy noted that much of the media attention since Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee (news - web sites)'s shock defeat had focused on the wild fluctuations of the Sensex, the benchmark index of the Bombay Stock Exchange.


"It's almost like a set-up," Roy said. "It's as though you're mocking the electorate and bludgeoning this government by saying, 'Are you aware that the Sensex has fallen? Are you going to pull back on reforms?' So they're forced to say no."


"It's a blatant game. If you look at the television coverage, I keep on seeing them calling people from the stock market. But I haven't seen one farmer asked, 'Why did you vote for this government?'

More: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040517/en_afp/india_vote_roy_040517014605&e=5

she's one amazing lady who always calls it like it is!

I wonder if the neocon's recent political vulnerabilities like the exposed US gulags has India marketeers worried about losing their Washington allies and the favors they dish out.

Pakistan is needed to get the oil and gas piplines out of Central Asia and has recieved lots of US support.

Consequently, all those out-sourced customer service jobs went to English-speaking India to balance the influence in the region since India and Pakistan are mortal nuclear enemies who support opposing forces in Afghanistan.

Pakistan helped build and support the Taliban.
India supports the 'Northern Alliance.'

GLOBAL MARKETS-Oil hits fresh high, Asia stocks drop
Reuters, 05.16.04, 10:39 PM ET

By Ian Geoghegan

SINGAPORE, May 17 (Reuters) - Crude oil hit a new all-time high on Monday, fuelling fresh inflation fears and knocking down Asian stocks which were already weaker on the prospect of an early U.S. interest rate rise.

The dollar eased against both the euro and the Japanese yen, helping firm the spot gold price.

Crude oil futures <CLc1> hit a 21-year high of $41.59 a barrel in electronic trade, up 21 cents from Friday's New York close. There are worries that tight world oil supply may fail to meet peak summer driving demand for gasoline in the United States.

Tokyo's Nikkei stock average <.N225> was down 2.16 percent at a 12-week low of 10,615.62 by 0205 GMT, extending the index's 12 percent fall since it hit a 33-month closing high on April 26.

Japan's broader TOPIX index <.TOPX> was off 2.52 percent. .......

http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2004/05/16/rtr1373291.html