‘We walked right into it’ (Dole would have switched on unemployment vote)

http://www.thehill.com/news/051804/vote.aspx

The one-vote defeat of an extension of unemployment benefits last week has sparked fear among Democrats that Republicans have developed a legislative model that will cast Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) repeatedly in a bad light before the election.

The extension needed 60 votes to pass in the Senate, and 12 Republicans made sure the final tally was 59-40, with only one absentee, presidential candidate Kerry.

At least one Republican senator, Elizabeth Dole (N.C.), was prepared to switch to a “no” vote to make sure the measure was defeated even if Kerry returned to cast his vote, a Democrat charged.

Even if Dole had stood firm, observers on both sides believe the GOP leadership would have been able to turn other Republicans to ensure defeat.

It is that simple.

left in power, Republicans will repeatedly show no sympathy for ordinary Americans out of work and will play shitty little games while doing it.

They are in control of all three houses...jobs are lost and the recovery is jobless...he needs to simply demonstrate that they can be counted on the let Americans suffer while playing politics with their livelihood.

when he is missing so many votes. This is going to happen again, and again, and again.

...all be keeping in mind as we get closer to November?

Everyone knows why we have so many people that are unemployed...because of the failed policies of the NeoCon Junta. How many of those people would now be employed if their jobs had not been outsourced?

Additionally, every DU poster should know that had Kerry returned to cast his vote, the GOP would have found another way to defeat it. Kerry's vote wasn't going to matter regardless of the decision he made.

But, his vote would not have given the VRWC ammo. And, after another time or two of the game-playing traitor's games, he could have yelled about it and folks would believe.

That's why I bitched about it when it happened. If the lying fascist assholes are gonna play games with our government, get on the side of it that you can use to defeat it.

There was no excuse to miss THAT vote. Sure, he was set up. The bill would not have passed if he voted or not. Voting gives nothing to the trators. Not voting gives ammo to the traitors. Plain and simple.

but go ahead and write the 30 second ad that explains it. Here is my attack ad. A man is running through the forest as a pack of dogs chase him. The man is Kerry running from his responsibilities in the Senate. The chase goes on and on as a list of all the votes Kerry missed roll across the screen. The tag line is "Kerry ran from his job in the Senate and now he wants a promotion? Give me a break."

...if you're going to worry about each and every nuance in this campaign, you might as well check into the local santorium because you're not going to make it through November. Additionally, for each attack ad the GOP runs, I can think of ten that can be run by the Democrats attacking Junior's character and failed policies.

If you dislike Kerry so much, and it's obvious that you do, why don't you find a better candidate and support that person without denigrating someone else's candidate.

And I'm going to repeat this because it is being discussed in the media at great length...the party responsible for the tremendous loss of jobs is the GOP. They have been in charge since the coup of December 2000, and THEY'RE the people responsible for this mess. If it wasn't for their malicious job policies, including that of outsourcing, Congress would not be voting on extending unemployment benefits.

you have no answer for an arm chair attack ad that I thought up in literally 30 seconds. Thus it is my fault. Remember all the howling on this board about Lieberman, can you tell me the difference here. Lieberman held his seat due to fearing his ticket would lose, more than a few people here rightfully criticised him for that. You have no responses so you basically call names and then wonder why people like me don't like people like you. The fact is had Dean insisted on running as sitting governor of Vermont and missed tons of bill signings I would be every bit as much on his case as Kerry's. But he gave up his seat, which he didn't have to do, in order to run for President. It isn't my fault, nor Dean's, that Kerry chose not to do that. Calling me names won't change that simple fact. This ad, or likely a much better one, will be running. It won't be run by Dean but by Bush, you can bet on it. I just hope the Kerry response won't be "they don't like me, boo hoo" which seems to be yours.

There is a word for the conduct you engaged in on this thread. It is chickenshit.

They know that after three years of complete Republican control, John Kerry's lone vote in the Senate isn't going to tip the scales one way or another.

That is how he won his seat by running a substantially similar ad regarding that persons House voting patterns.

the Senate agenda and timing.

So, we're just going to have to deal with it.

He can find ways to put the blame where it really lies.

It wouldn't be good if republicans had an additional seat in the Senate. I would want him to resign most likely if there was a democratic governor in MA, but there isn't.

if he leaves now it is for 6 months. If he waits it is two years. Now which is better?

However, they don't seem to be rushing to do it which they could do now.

And you assume that Kerry is going to win which is not certain at this point. I'm optimistic but we don't want to lose a senate seat we don't have to. You also assume that the republican that Romney appoinst will lose in an election, but if he appoints a good candidate, that new senator may win a full term.

First lets say Kerry loses. Then he can run against the appointee. Second, whomever Romney appoints will be much less likely to win with Kerry at the top of the ticket giving the Democrat coattails which is how he would be running in 2004. Third, the law change could cost us the seat by causing resentment.

Just curious, but for whom do you plan to vote in November?

what did you do on that day? I did this despite knowing that I would be tied up all day on Sunday with my family on mother's day and that I am working long term at a middle school in a subject I have to work on each night to keep ahead of the kids. BTW I said the man, in the post you say has nothing positive, would have coattails to carry the seat for a Dem. But calling people who spend their days off working for your candidate makes you feel good then go ahead and do it.

Yeah, changing the law is already causing resentment in the minority MA. Republican party, all the RW newspapers are agitating about this - who cares? I want to see them make the case as to why it is more important for a Governor to appoint a Senator than for the people to vote for one. If Romney has confidence in the qualifications of whoever he picks - let him run.

I do not want to see any Repub getting an undeserved leg up in a MA Senate seat.

not the people. The people would be a vast improvement.

The voters would probably be much happier to know that the democratic legislature gave them the right to choose a senator, not the republican governor.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/02/19/democrats_eye_plan_to_protect_kerry_senate_seat/

Massachusetts Democrats are devising a plan to keep John F. Kerry's US Senate seat in their party's hands by blocking Governor Mitt Romney from naming an interim replacement if Kerry wins the White House.

Beacon Hill lawmakers want to pass legislation that would leave Kerry's seat vacant for two months or more, until a special election is held to fill it. That would prevent the Republican governor from naming an interim senator, as is currently required by state law.

The initiator of the proposal -- Representative William M. Straus, Democrat of Mattapoisett -- insisted he is not being partisan. But Republicans say the Democrats are being premature.

"John Kerry and his supporters are doing everything but measuring for drapes at the White House," said Eric Fehrnstrom, Romney's communications director. "We have a long campaign in front of us."

but I still feel that he should give up the seat. This missed vote thing looks bad and is hard to defend. I fail to see why we are giving our opponents ammo when we don't have to.

Imagine the kind of good we could do.

Democrats have more variety in viewpoint and different stances on the issues, which makes us a better group, no doubt, but also can hurt us when we can't get together when it really counts.

Only Zell Miller opposed it. But, many republicans voted for it while most voted against it. The republicans were divided on this one.

And in the House every democrat voted against the budget while republicans had some defections. The democrats in Congress are actually quite united but the republicans are in the majority so they can use their unity more effectively.

Fuck that.

I'm the ABBest guy on this board, a position that fairly howls 'unity first!' at the top of its lungs. But uniting behind a candidate in the cause of a great housecleaning is a hell of a lot different from the kind of twisted 'unity' that would lead several felderally elected people to deliberately sabotage important legislation as a means of scoring political points in a general election.

But then again, if we lose the White House in 2004 but somehow win the Senate, that moral question may fall to the Democrats. I hate politics, I think.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." -- Mark Twain

Needs to run ads on these things.

Why not suggest it to them.

Turn the Republicans dirty tricks into a negative for them in voter's eyes.

These guys are just dirty. The very fact that Libby woulda stuck it to her own constituents to preserve the party line just stinks to high heaven. How can anybody support these folks.

Kerry. That needs to be broadcast ubiquitously.

that is the truth.

how fucking hard is that?

Republicans would schedule votes all the time just so that Kerry has to come back to the Senate all the time and will have less time to campaign.

I think one liberal democrat should have switched his/her vote so that it would be only 58 votes for it and the media wouldn't be interested.

...would have come up with another vote to defeat the measure?

How fucking hard is that to understand?

it should be transparent:

Forty votes against it? Mostly Republican? They won't like doing this repeatedly with roll call votes.

Democrats. The fix was in whether Kerry went to vote or not and they may pull this the rest of the time. Democrats need to speak up loudly and clearly about what is happening. Kerry did - I heard him.

but at least if he showed up, he could have said I wanted to extend UE benefits and the Republicans didn't.

He should have come for a vote like this, no matter what.

Is it really worth it? How much do they think the overall unemployment rate will go down by doing this? Thats what its really all about, the attempt to embarass Kerry was just a side benefit, it's really about getting that number down for Dim-Son.

The republicans made damn sure that unemployed Americans who cannot find work and are nearing the end of the UI benefits will be tossed out to the sharks, and why? Just so they can make a Democrat look bad in the eyes of voters.

When their pride has subsided, that's when they'll realize that they've done more to alienate unemployed working Americans who may have mistakenly thought that they were onboard with the GOP plan than anything Kerry could do or say.

When one becomes a rethug, all blood ceases flowing to the brain. Nothing but mental atrophy in them.

They seem to have forgotten that.

What happens to Americans without unemployment benefits? They are forced to welfare and that squeezes the states. Hard.

The very states that George will need to help him pull off the next election fraud.

Why doesn't he rally his party on the issue?

And by the way where was Bush? Out raising giving more contracts to the corporations who give money to him.

The last thing the Republicans want to talk about during the campaign is unemployment. They will never mention this vote again.

Every time the Repubs pull a stunt lately, they look less and less like they know what they are doing. They are becoming the gang that couldn't shoot straight.

He's no babe in the woods. When criticised about missing votes before he said he didn't go vote because the votes were not close. He had to know the Repugs would engineer a close vote to make him look bad. That's the way they do things. I can't imagine he's surprised by their dirty games.

The vote, and the dirty politics are not the point. What Kerry needs to harp on is that Repugs are hurting Americans. THAT is what people need to hear. Kerry needs to drill the point home that the Repugs will do anything they can to advance their partisan politics, even if it means hurting ordinary Americans.

He needs to give up the seat, or DO THE DAMN JOB. If he's going to fail to vote, he needs to be prepared to take the fall for exactly this kind of crap.

For all you who blame the rethugs, If Kerry had been there doing his job, he wouldn't be getting blamed for this crap.

It stands at 60-40, champagne corks pop, right? Well no, at the last possible moment, Liddy Dole stands up, addresses the President Pro Tempore, and says, "You know, I've thought it over, and I'd like to change my vote from 'aye' to 'nay'." Frist smiles, registers the change, the bill goes down 59-41, and Kerry comes off the campaign trail for two days to cast a meaningless vote.

Over in the Oval Office, Karl Rove laughs, claps Lil George on the back, and sends him out for another million dollar fundraiser on the taxpayer nickel. Then he picks up the phone, and calls Frist about how to do it all over again next week.

Yeah, good thinking there.

Kerry's doing exactly what he should be doing. It's nothing more than Republican game-playing, and the Democrats should simply point it out at every opportunity.

We are ALREADY converted. You need to point it out to the moderates and the undecided. If that scenario as you described had actually happened, it would have been a smoking gun. Now, it's just a cheap excuse. It would only have taken once to be good pointing fodder, and Kerry would not have lost much.

I think allowing the assholes to be able to brand Kerry a hypocrite on labor issues by missing the vote is more damaging than the time it would have taken to allow the assholes to play their heinous game and then be called on it.

...will understand all too well that if you are not showing up for work but are cashing the paycheck all the same then you should be fired.

This is such an easy issue to exploit that I am sure the Republicans will let the mail room staff handle it.

...a lot more credit for having the ability to analyze the issues and make their own decisions about who is going to get their vote. If there is not enough political and economic ammunition right now to get them to vote for Kerry, or at least vote against Junior, then those voters will NEVER vote for Kerry.

I'm constantly amazed at the amount of hand-wringing on DU over every issue...this is a marathon, not a sprint, and you need to start understanding that.

...when you allow yourself to be tripped.

This marathon includes Congress AND a huge margin to overcome vote theft. Can you relate a more important election in our history?

You want him to give up his seat, have Rommney appoint a Repuke and if the election goes to hell then we are stuck with another repuke senator. Wise up. He knows what he is doing.

...fellow Democrats "for this crap", would he? In fact, there are quite a few "democrats" on this board that feel compelled to criticize Kerry for just about anything. Why is that exactly? Is it because your candidate didn't have what it took to become the Democratic Party front-runner?

Tell me who's really responsible for the massive job losses across the country and the outsourcing of jobs overseas. Are you seriously trying to tell me and anyone else reading your posts that Kerry is somehow responsible for this mess?

more egg on their face than we know?

You can have all the spin you want, but when the rest of the 7 billion or so get their ears pinned back, you might want to see what's up

If you ask me.

How would this ad go?

"Vote for us because Kerry wasn't there to stop us as we took away your unemployment benefits."

...we got you into this mess and we really don't care whether or not the peons survive".

....or....

"Vote for the GOP so we can outsource your jobs and provide nothing in the way of retraining for other lines of work".

There have been massive lay-offs in North Carolina due to plant closings, and thousands of North Carolinians are losing their benefits in the coming weeks thanks to this vote. It will be used against Dole (as it should) during her next campaign.

Dole would have loved to have changed her vote on this. I think that the Republicans strong-armed her into voting against it in the first place. How many more sacrifices will the Republicans make for the Chimp? I think that they are approaching the end of the line.

I even think it is possible that Kerry set up Dole on purpose with this vote. She may have been counting on him returning to D.C. for this vote so that she could change hers. When he didn't, she ended up casting a vote that will be hugely unpopular in her state. It may be part of Kerry's strategy to win the south. There are a lot of conservatives in NC who are really angry with the Chimp right now.

Dole voted to extend the benefits. The article says she would have switched her vote to the other side if needed. If Kerry wanted her to suffer for voting against, he should have been there to force her hand.

It seems really weird that Senator Elizabeth Dole would tell the democrats about her plan to switch votes. Is she just the worst politician ever, or just an idiot? Or maybe she just isn't a very loyal republican?

specifically Bush's, which is very close to zero.

When Bush claims that Kerry caused this result, Kerry can explain why it's not true. People will believe Kerry over Bush.

Kerry will not have a chance to explain this to the people. This no-show (even though we know it would have turned out the same even with Kerry there), is already being produced into :30 smear ads against Kerry.. telling the voters that he doesn't care enough about the unemployed to show up.

Frankly.. the more I think about it. WTF was he thinking? Doesn't he care about the unemployed? That was a stupid, insensitive decision on his part... It's the economy, John.

Then they vote on legislation based solely on a "popularity" contest.

Isn't this the most inept Congress ever, completely void of any integrity and intellect???

I'm sorry.. anyone with any kind of savvy, enough to win an election, would have realized that this vote was uber-important. This is the stuff that makes for great Rovian commercials. Oh please, the commmercials are probably already produced.. The GOP find some pathetic looking unemployed family to talk about how John Kerry didn't care enough to show for the vote.

I know, I know, it would have gone that way even if he were here.. but for some reason, his handlers had a major lapse in judgement and intelligence, they ACTUALLY assumed that Americans would take time to research this incident, or read the major newspapers.. rather than rely on a :30 ad during Nascar. Who is advising Kerry right now? Karl Rove's relatives? This was a no-brainer...

From my experience working on smaller campaigns, it's always the small stuff that gets you.. it's the stuff you really dont' think about that can sink a campaign, or give fodder to the other side.

salvation for them, christian or not, they are just plain no good and their actions show that they are NOT christian