Rocket launcher found near Atlanta rail-transit station

ATLANTA - A military rocket launcher was found Tuesday near a rail-transit station, but the FBI said it looks to be a less-powerful model commonly used to train soldiers and would be unable to bring down an aircraft or destroy a train.

The device will be examined further to be sure it is only a training model, said FBI spokesman Steve Lazarus.

"If it is indeed a training device, it's something you can buy at any gun store," he said.

Lazarus said there was no cause for public alarm and the city's rail-transit system was not interrupted by the discovery.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/8695997.htm

If it is indeed a training device, it's something you can buy at any gun store," he said.


What the hell are rocket launchers doing in a common gun store?

:wtf:

are inert.

It sounds like it was an AT-4 or a LAW tube. These are disposable, un-reloadable, one-shot weapons.

If what the article says is true, it's no more dangerous than the cardboard tube found inside a roll of carpet.

interesting

It looks identical to a real claymore mine, except that it was blue instead of green. Internally, the ball bearings and explosives had been replaced with concrete, so that the weight was correct.

The purpose of such things is familiarization, so that people can train with it, without risking it actually going off.

It's an oddity, but isn't remotely dangerous.

... and you will find what you need.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36074&item=2245464555&rd=1#ebayphotohosting



:evilgrin:

Repeat the reich wing talking point with me -- rocket launchers don't kill people, people kill people.

:puke:

All I can is :wtf:

I have been in a lot of gun stores, and to a lot of gun shows, and I don't recall ever having seen any kind of rocket launcher for sale. Maybe I've been going to the wrong stores.

A. What types of gun stores contain rocket launchers? AND
B. What good is a rocket launcher if it can't even blow up a train?

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

I've seen them for sale, in fact I used to own one but gave it to a friend who's a former Marine. It had a sticker on it that read: "Break Murphy's Law, DO it right!"

Does 'any gun store' also sell rockets for these rocket
launchers?

these are disposable rocket launchers. They cannot be reloaded, even if you have the correct rocket. That's why they're unregulated.

oh, just a training device? WTF...you buy a rocket launcher with military markings in any gun store!!!!

at most gun stores too. They have been "demilled" to government specifications, which means that they have a big hole drilled in the bottom of them, which makes them unable to function, or to be restored to functionability. They contain no explosive, and even if you found explosives to put in them, they still wouldn't function properly, since the containment vessel which is required to be intact for it to work is no longer there. In other words, it's a big, heavy chunk of metal that is only dangerous if you hit somebody with it, just like any other big, heavy chunk of metal.

but couldn't say where or when....:shrug:

is that the government makes these things, which are factory loaded with rockets. Once they are fired, they are either disposed of (which is how they come to be in civilian hands, through base "dumpster divers") or retained as training aids.

I know a gal who has an inert AT-4 launcher that she uses as a pedestal for a potted plant in her rec room. It's quite a conversation starter. Of course, she lives in a military town.

It may help if you think of these things as basically tubes of toothpaste. Once you've squeezed the toothpaste out, it still looks like a tube of toothpaste, but it has no real functional value. Same deal with these.

Just an observation -- Bush took Air Force One to Atlanta yesterday, to Dobbins AFB, which is some miles from where this thing was found and, I don't think, on its normal flight path. Another reason (and a good one) for the Feds to sit up and take notice.

I was wondering.....

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976375646.htm






Sez it shoots 66mm rocket 2 miles, which is pretty damned screwed up for domestic use, explosive tip or not. Why in the F is this legal?

The guy selling it lives in White Settlement, TX--naturally.

"When rocket launchers are outlawed, only outlaws will have rocket launchers"

No wonder you guys have problems with violence and crime. Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine is starting to make sense.

:evilfrown:

it was sarcasm...

is a polite society" :hippie:

,...in the folds of the Appalachias. Seriously!!!

My whole family has noticed the huge increase in "arms" dealing tables at the flea markets (in addition to military paraphernalia). It's really freaky!!!

they're violating half a dozen Federal laws.

I kid you NOT!!!

A few years ago,...I never saw any "arms". But, I am telling you,...there are a variety of arms,...pretty much as you walk into the park.

It's scary.

ask to see a copy of their Federal Firearms License.

You're not by any chance talking about the big regional 3-day flea market in Hillsville, VA, are you?

If you are, they have a real gun show set up in a building, with a huge flea market set up in the entire city around it. THAT is legal, and they do conduct background checks and require the standard paperwork there, just as it is required at all gun shows and gun stores. ALL of the gun dealers should be in the one building, if they're not, they can get into trouble.

The rules for people selling arms other than guns are quite different. Swords, blowguns, knives and things like that are not regulated in the same manner as guns are.

,...and they do "swords, blowguns knives and things" on top of weapons I had never before laid eyes on.

Especially weird is the fact that, although I feel uncomfortable about their "sales",..."they" seem quite protective of a wide variety of people,...regardless of "skin color".

Hillsville is in the mountains of Virginia, about as Appalachian as you can get...

you need to relax some. It's just an internet message board, no need to get flustered. :)

Around here it's not unusual to see a couple of firearms at a yard sale. The local bulletin board always has 100+ rifles for sale. I'm not sure of all the criteria for being considered a dealer by the feds. But selling a few firearms doesn't qualify. It's like selling used cars. In this state there's a specific number per year at which you must do the licensing/paperwork thing.

The inert gernades and used rocket tubes aren't regulated just like other junk.

If you sell firearms in an attempt to turn a profit, you MUST be Federally licensed. It's not a State issue, it's a federal issue.

A private individual selling firearms at a yard sale generally wouldn't qualify. That's a person disposing of property, and is almost always done at a net loss. Now, if you held a yardsale every weekend, and bought and sold guns as part of the yard sale, that would almost certainly qualify. And if you set up at a regular flea market, that DEFINITELY qualifies.

To let you know just how anal-retentive they are about this, let me tell you about a routine BEFAT "sting" operation. They'll go to gun shows, and look for people buying guns. They'll find out how much they paid for the gun, wait for the transaction to be completed, and then an udercover operative will approach them. They'll offer to buy the newly purchased gun for more than the person paid for it at the table a few minutes ago. If the buyer says no, they'll up the offer. If the buyer says yes, they'll pay him, give him the money, take the gun, and then demand to see his FFL. If he doesn't have a FFL, he gets arrested right there and then, charged with dealing in firearms without a license. On ONE gun. That's all it takes.

That's how the system works.

DoNotRefill explained how the government defines a gun dealer and you started talking about getting over it and the system being flawed, but if you don't want to talk about it that's fine.

,...then you are NOT living in rural America. OKAY!?!?!?!?

I AM TELLING YOU,...there are tables with multiple weapons being sold,...in RURAL America.

PERIOD!!!

Take it or leave it. What do I care what you or anyone else believes when I am telling you the "TRUTH".

But if they're being sold for a profit, then the people selling them are risking their lives with ATF or whatever they call themselves now.

there are different rules for different kinds of arms.

Guns have VERY specific rules. Things like knives, crossbows, swords, et cetera don't. I reside in the "triangle" area of Virginia, which is about equidistant from Tenn, West Virginia, and North Carolina. It's farming country, and about as rural as you can get on the East Coast. The nearest cow to me is around 500 yards from my house, and I live inside town limits. The nearest movie theater is 50 miles away. I have to drive 20 miles to get a soft-serve ice cream cone (at the "Custard Shack", the DQ is further away) and further to find a chain fast food restaurant like Burger King. That's me, Mr. Urban Dweller!!!

The laws regarding selling guns at flea markets are federal. They're the same EVERYWHERE in the US. It's obvious that you don't understand the law. That's OK. Lack of comprehension isn't a crime. There's a very large legal difference between selling guns at a flea market and selling knives, et cetera, at a flea market.

Relax. Take a deep breath. Hold it. Now let it out.

If you are going to sell a gun for a profit, you need a FFL, with all of the legal baggage that goes with it. If you want to sell a gun for a profit, but don't want to get an FFL yourself, you can have the gun brokered through a licensed dealer, who will conduct the required paperwork for you, normally for a small percentage of the sale.

What's so difficult about that?

I suppose I should have checked to see where you are, but I'm really, really sure it ain't anywhere near where I am.
:eyes:

they're subject to arrest, trial, and a lengthy all-expense-paid trip to Club Fed if convicted, along with VERY hefty fines. And it's an easy case to prove...

simple 9 mm bullet in a long barrel inside the tube (AT-4), the other (TOW) was a M80 firecracker attached to an Estes-rocket style fuse, which blew up when you pulled the trigger and then the missile computer 'simulated' a warhead going down range and you adjusted the little joystick to help 'steer' it.

So in a sense, anyone can buy a 9mm bullet and something to shoot it in a gun store, in a less conspicous version than a big green rocket launcher.

The M136 AT4 is the Army's primary light anti-tank weapon. The M136 AT4 is a recoilless rifle used primarily by Infantry Forces for engagement and defeat of light armor. The recoilless rifle design permits accurate delivery of an 84mm High Explosive Anti-Armor warhead, with negligible recoil. The M136 AT4 is a lightweight, self-contained, antiarmor weapon consisting of a free-flight, fin-stabilized, rocket-type cartridge packed in an expendable, one-piece, fiberglass-wrapped tube. The M136 AT4 is man-portable and is fired from the right shoulder only. The launcher is watertight for ease of transportation and storage. Unlike the M72-series LAW, the M136 AT4 launcher need not be extended before firing. Though the M136 AT4 can be employed in limited visibility, the firer must be able to see and identify the target and estimate the range to it. Subsequent to the initial fielding of the weapon, a reusable night sight bracket was developed and fielded. It permits utilization of standard night vision equipment. The system's tactical engagement range is 250 meters and has been used in multiple combat situations. The round of ammunition is self-contained in a disposable launch tube. The system weighs 15 pounds and can be utilized effectively with minimal training


http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/at4.htm

and this scares the f--- out of me. Disposable, inert or whatever. Someone had to put it there.

It's really not a big deal.

Now, if it had been "live", THAT would have been a HUGE deal.

If you find an empty box of cigarettes, do you become concerned that the secondhand smoke from the empty box will kill you? Of course not. It's an empty wrapper, and isn't dangerous.

Guess what did this!

Hint: You can buy it at Home Depot, or for a small charge they will deliver.

Sleep tight!

or a big propane tank. Am I right?

For many years AN was considered to be non-explosive... they used to store HUGE hundred foot tall piles of it, which would clump up. They would break it up with bulldozers and dynamite! Eventually the inevitable happened, and they found out that AN isn't non-explosive, it's just darned hard to initiate.

*SNIP*

About 7:30 a.m. on September 21, 1921, two powerful explosions occurred at the BASF plant in Oppau, Germany. The explosions destroyed the plant and approximately 700 nearby houses, and killed 430 persons.

The explosions occurred as blasting powder was being used to breakup storage piles of a 50/50 mixture of ammonium sulphate and ammonium nitrate. This procedure had previously been used 16,000 times without mishap. About 4,500 tons of the mixture were involved in the explosion, which created a crater 250 feet in diameter and 50 feet deep.

http://www.yarchive.net/explosives/oppau_blast.html

Location: Oppau, Germany
Date of incident: September 21, 1921
Hazardous material: Ammonium sulfate & ammonium nitrate (50/50)
Type of accident: Explosion
Facility type/Transport: Chemical plant (fertilizer)
Owner of facility: BASF
Deaths: 430
Injuries: ?
Evacuation: None

Accident description:

About 7:30 a.m. on September 21, 1921, two powerful explosions occurred at the BASF plant in Oppau, Germany. The explosions destroyed the plant and approximately 700 nearby houses, and killed 430 persons.

The explosions occurred as blasting powder was being used to breakup storage piles of a 50/50 mixture of ammonium sulphate and ammonium nitrate. This procedure had previously been used 16,000 times without mishap. About 4,500 tons of the mixture were involved in the explosion, which created a crater 250 feet in diameter and 50 feet deep.

http://slp.icheme.org/incidents.html#Others


Especially see the Texas City disaster. The Oklahoma Bombing we all know about already.

http://www.texas-city-tx.org/docs/history/exp.htm

Google the history of BASF in Oppau.

n/t

...stuff a mile and a half away is amazing! The last pictures of the firefighters is sad though. The firetruck is not even recognizable as such.

Marta Sunday afternoon to the airport. Creepy.

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/bobgould/myhomepage/photo.html

http://www.cobbatoncombat.co.uk/

http://www.jpdeacts.com/products.htm

and finally for the PROFESSIONAL or enthusiast

http://www.survive-thrive.com/index.php

The logic of the FBI escapes me...unless, of course, they are purposefully downplaying this incident to dampen fears and reassure the public. Nahhh...too much credit.

JB

...that someone might have been training to destroy a train or something with a real rocket launcher, but used the training version in case he was caught the first time around so that there could be some degree of deniability.

Testing security around the area, to make sure the mission could be accomplished on another day?

Or maybe it was stowed there to be used at another time. The training rocket launcer might not be able to destroy the train, but what about the rail itself? All you really need to destroy a train, cause a lot of damage, and possibly hurt a lot of people is to simly de-rail it. Destroy the rail as the train approaches, the train de-rails because it doesn't have time to stop and whammo! bad ju ju's.

A disruption of the rail system wouldn't really put a dent in travel, since so many people traveling long distances travel by plane. But after September 11 the travel industry was seriously crippled for quite a while.

The rail industry's major haul is cargo, stuff that is more cost effective to ship long distances by rail than by semi-truck. Like Automobiles for example. The Detroit manufactures load up countless autos a day onto rail lines for distibution across the country. Imports come by sea into our harbor towns and are loaded onto the rails almost as soon as they come off the boats. Once the trains reach the local depot, some cars are off loaded and are then transported to the dealerships by way of Semi-trucks. Cargo trains carry much more, much further than would be practical using semi's.

An attack on a train, or several trains might have the same debilitating impact on our transport of goods as the Sept 11, attacks had on our travel industry. The rail lines are the vital arteries in out nations economy. Without them alot of what we buy, has no realistic way to get from where it's made to where it needs to be.

Not just cars, but cattle, fruits and vegatables, gas, and a host of other things that we need to survive. Demand will drastically exeed supply of some basic needs, and prices on those needs will skyrocket.

Something like this could be very, very bad.

Sorry, folks, don't mean to be an alarmist. And I'm not crying terrorist or anything, but this is a senario I thought best to submit for your consideration.

for the simple reason that the "training" mission would expose the terrorist to detection. If detected, he or she would stand a good chance of ending up in Gitmo.

We're not talking rocket science here.

fuels the power plants that generate half of our electricity. Trains also deliver agricultural fertilizer and lime, which is needed by most soils in the eastern half of the country in order to be productive.