Gen. Zinni: 'They've Screwed Up'

Accusing top Pentagon officials of "dereliction of duty," retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni says staying the course in Iraq isn't a reasonable option.

"The course is headed over Niagara Falls. I think it's time to change course a little bit or at least hold somebody responsible for putting you on this course," he tells CBS News Correspondent Steve Kroft in an interview to be broadcast on 60 Minutes, Sunday, May 23, at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

The current situation in Iraq was destined to happen, says Zinni, because planning for the war and its aftermath has been flawed all along.

"There has been poor strategic thinking in this...poor operational planning and execution on the ground," says Zinni, who served as commander-in-chief of the U.S. Central Command from 1997 to 2000.

Zinni blames the poor planning on the civilian policymakers in the administration, known as neo-conservatives, who saw the invasion as a way to stabilize the region and support Israel. He believes these people, who include Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense, have hijacked U.S. foreign policy.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/21/60minutes/main618896.shtml

'They've' is 'Bush' and only him and our children die for a lie.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/EurMEast.html

100F tomorrow in Basrah. Do you know why your children are dying?
http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/IZXX0002.html

Go Zinni Go Zinni :bounce:

A giant banner of a hooded and abused Iraqi prisoner is displayed during a rally in Beirut, May 21, 2004. Tens of thousands of Lebanese Shi'ites in white shrouds marched in Beirut Friday in a collective show of their willingness to die in defense of holy shrines in U.S.-occupied Iraq (news - web sites). REUTERS/Mohamed Azakir



THIS PHOTO IS ALL OVER EUROPE TODAY.

how many wake up calls does America need?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Speak out loud and clear and persistently.

We need you, Zinni. Good gawd,...we need you!!!

:bounce:

<on edit - I wonder if he knew about the neocon-backed PNAC agenda before or after the invasion. I'll bet he really was not fully informed until after.

hearing? A three-star general opined that if the Pentagon was being overrun and he had only one bullet left, he'd save it for Cambone. Its the revenge of the generals, my friends. They all LOATHE these people. As much as we hate them, triple it for them.

I was STUNNED to see that Clancy co-authored Zinni's book. Clancy's as hardcore conservative as they come--this truly surprised me.

,...that they are going to agree with some ridiculous agenda of global domination like that set out in PNAC.

I think most "reasonable" folks realize that this world has had enough of imperialistic pursuits.

He's a Reagan-worshiping, missile-fetishizing creep--THAT is why I'm so surprised. I'm NOT surprised that the Pat Buchanan conservatives are turning on Bush--but Clancy's not one of those kind of critters.

Almost anyone I've communicated with who's a "Reagan-worshipper" is totally behind this fiasco.

Hmmm,...that is interesting. Of course, the neocons take Reaganism a huge step forward towards imperialism.

I think that Clancy is probably just pissed for not giving him credit. The Bush administration was running around saying that NO ONE could have predicted a plane would be used as a weapon.

In fact, Tom Clancy WROTE A BOOK who's premise was destruction of the Capital Building during a State of the Union address using .....

AN AIRPLANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nobody could have predicted indeed.

I wouldn't buy another book or go to any movie based on his books if I were paid to do so.

So it's impossible for him to respect Bush.

There are lots of "intelligent" people who profess to like Bush. It's not a matter of intelligence--it's all about how craven you are.

Even as a non-violent advocate,...I do recognize the relative preoccupations as something distinct from one another.

I'm not defending Clancy's obsession,...just attempting to distinguish it from the obsession with greed and power and money that the neocons present. I do believe there is a difference.

But, please,...don't be offended or defensive by my post (i.e. don't "attack" me *LOL*).

He has an evident fetish for stand-off weaponry ... you know, the kind that makes mass killing seem like a video game? He worships Reagan and has dedicated books to St. Ronnie in disgustingly Candy-Crowley-esque (or Noonan-esque) terms.

They are smart and relevant. Clancy climbs into the cracks of policy and exposes weaknesses.

I don't think you'd ever find Tom Clancy shilling for missle defense. He's too smart and realizes that it would be ineffective (ala "Sum Of All Fears").

Tom Clancy brings strategic national defense issues alive in a way that makes the consumable to the public. Give the guy a break.

Ultimately, I might not agree with his politics. But I do recognize the smarts he brings to communicating defense issues to the public and being ENTERTAINING while he does it.

They are really doing lots of stories revealing the evil of the Bush empire these days!

or is that wishful thinking?

:eyes:

story on the voter felon purge list story. According to Greg, they killed the story because the facts didn't check out. When he asked them how or or why, they told him that they called Jeb Bush's office which claimed the story wasn't true.

I'll grant them that they're doing their job now but why the fuck has it taken them 3 1/2 years?

everyone else knew this would happen.

That nasty little business of voting to give bu$h the power to invade any country at any time for any reason might bite him in the ass if were to speak on this aspect of things!

:evilgrin:
dbt

and soon
he better get off this ME TOO crap - the ship is going down and if he wants to stay on board with Bush, then he will go down too. This guy needs to start saying we need a change of course - he just can't keep hiding and talking about domestic issues - this is the time to turn the tide and show you are a REAL LEADER - GET OFF YOUR ASS KERRY. We are all waiting for you.

...and I agree. Stand back and watch the implosion. Bring your weenies and marshmallows! :D

Talk about a wasp's nest!!!

Let Bush spend big bucks and time to spin his way out of this mess.

I'd stand back and watch, too.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to get invested in this insanity.

In a couple of months, when the fog lifts,...that is when he hits hard.

:kick:

The captain of the ship!

Wait.

That ship is sinking, as well as our country.

Yeah, that's the ticket, Kerry! Let our country sink while you watch us all drown because you won't get off your fucking ass and be a leader!

amen amen amen.

I support Kerry but he has to change his position NOW.


Cher

From the gate, winning the war would be easy, winning the peace would be much more complicated. He has said this so many times I imagine he's getting sick to death of saying it.

Not to rush to war, change course, internationalize, get the face of American occupation off this situation, it's a moment of truth, last chance to get this right, mistakes have been made, they've misrepresented the facts on WMD, it just goes on and on.

Do people ever really listen to him or read what he says?

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/iraq/

How many more competent voices have to speak out publicly before the American public wakes up?

How many more need to scream The Emperor Has No Clothes! before we revolt against this inept administration?

and even worse....how many more soldiers will die because of this misadventure?

How many?

If Americans don't ban together to run these thugs out of office we deserve what they will do to us.

General Zinni is a distinguished and universally respected Retired Marine Corps Officer. How can I claim the forgoing is true? Well, not that I'm a former Army AD Officer, but through my husband of 21 years - a retired USMC Officer.

The Republicans do not own the loyalty of the military. That my dear fellow DUers, is a BIG LIE. Remember Zinni's positive efforts for President Clinton in furthering the Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process? Then Bush 43 was selected by our supreme court and his Administration neglected that part of the world until the most recent crisis. : (

FYI - Since his retirement from the United States Marine Corps in 2000, Tony Zinni continues to serve his country as the U.S. Peace Envoy in the Middle East and as the Special Envoy to the Henri Durante Centre for Humanitarian Dialog (Indonesian conflict peace effort).


Biography - General Anthony Zinni, USMC (Ret.)

General Zinni is currently a distinguished Senior Advisor at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. For the last three years of his career with the Armed Forces, General Zinni was Commander in Chief, U.S. Central Command, responsible for U.S. forces in a 25-country region, ranging from the Horn of Africa and the Middle East to parts of the former Soviet Union. He joined the U.S. Central Command in September 1996 as Deputy Commander in Chief. Following Desert Storm, he served as the Chief of Staff and Deputy Commanding General of combined task force Private Comfort, a Kurdish relief effort in Turkey and Iraq. During 1992-1993, General Zinni directed the Unified Task Force Somalia during operation Continue Hope, and earlier, he was Deputy Commanding General of the U.S. Marine Corps Combat Development Command at Quantico, Virginia. He served in Vietnam as a company commander in 1970. A graduate of Villanova University, General Zinni holds a B.A. in economics, an M.A. in international relations, and an M.A. in management and supervision. His decorations include the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, the Defense Superior Service Medal with two oak leaf clusters, the Bronze Star Medal with Combat "V" and gold star in lieu of a second award, and the Purple Heart.

should offer Gen. Zinni as his choice for SecDef, if he'll take it.

Right?

Slant Six

After what we've done to the Iraqi people? Why would the Iraqis want anything more to do w/the US unless it's to cash a big fat US check for reparations?

Pay-back time.

I like that one better.

:)

there's a bigger, better, safer one headed back upstream.

balanced views, such as this one, in the media. I anticipate, as I expect many of you do, that there will be a barrage of unpleasant rhetoric coming Mr. Zinni's way. Solving the impending crisis is of far greater importance than trying to drown out voices of reason. It wastes valuable time and solves nothing.

He spoke out from the beginning, so they smeared him.

And he knows the Mideast,like not many others. I have read he is trusted by the Palestinians & Israelis.

what would happen. How many times does Zinni have to tell the nation that junior is an idiot in a nice way?

Can't wait to see him on 60 minutes Sunday

Most suckers don't find out they are suckers till they get caught up in trying this stupid act of trying to sucker someone else.

(I wouldn't be too hard on him just yet, He might be only begining to learn of the total concept as pertaining to AWOL-FRAUD and all of its ramifications)

,...and we really have got to accept that everyone involved in this horror film,...are "human",...not perfect,...not "all-knowing".

There have been a helluva lot of people, human beings, who had no freakin' idea that they were being betrayed.

We really have got to keep that in mind. People were betrayed. No one walks into betrayal ON PURPOSE. No one recovers easily from "allowing" themselves to be betrayed. We are just not suppose to be that,...vulnerable. It's humiliating.

It a fucking shame. The US government is a total disgrace.

What's really frustrating is to be repeatedly proved correct in our warnings about the Invasion; and then to have people surprised that our warnings are proved correct. It's like warning your neighbor about his letting his 5-year-old drive his car; and then having other neighbors saying they're surprised that the 5-year-old wrecked it.

This alibi argument that it's all the neocons fault just denies responsibility of the real culprits.

about what the Bush Admin has done wrong & the damage done to his military.

These guys all served in Vietnam, & they will not be quiet this time.

:shrug:

MAYBE. I could see a scenario where the military brass steps in and FORCES a recount of ballots.

Don't be fooled one bit. The Republicans are trying to steal the 2004 election. They know full well that they cannot WIN it at this point. If that's the case, it might be the LAST free election in the United States.

I fear greatly for the future of my nation under the facist Neo-Cons. They are systematically weakening our nation in favor of centralized power in multi-national corporations. They are trying to erode the power of nation states WORLDWIDE!!!!!

Indeed, military intervention may be needed. The old guard generals may have to come out of retirement and recruit a lot of colonels and majors to support an action to RESTORE democracy in this nation.

Apparantly, Bush is going to the Military War College to give a speech. I almost laughed by lungs out when I heard this. What kind of reception will they give him???? Is it possible they'll just stand and TURN THEIR BACKS on the Commander in Chief who COMPLETELY IGNORED THEIR ADVICE!!!!!

General Zinni is landing on Bush's humming bird ass.

Ten years ago, if an American official had suggested the US abandon the western alliance and begin a new alliance starting with Red China, he'd have been laughed out of Washington. However, that was then and this is now. If you want to read something nuts, read what Feith proposes for American policy.

No shit, Jose!

Another nail in the "stay the course" argument that is being advanced by some people in both major parties.

Get the hell out of Iraq NOW!

What is going on at CBS? I am pleased, but really surprised. Again, they strike out at the neocons.

Viacom/CBS is the most independent. Just look at the quality of shows they produce.

All you uber-liberals out there. Remember the programming that Showtime Latenite offers (Queer as Folk!!!!, Family Business). Remember that Dan Rather is the only anchor left who isn't a COMPLETE Bush shill.

A network will ALWAYS have it's basic bias towards making money. But CBS/Viacom has shown a relative indpendence when compared to GE/NBC, Time Warner and Disney/ABC. They may have pushed "The Reagans" to Showtime. But they had the guts to make it in the first place using a "non-propaganda" script.

Why is CBS/Viacom relatively uncorrupted by Bushism?

Maybe...

GE/NBC: GE is a big defense contractor, war is good for business.

Time Warner: Has an inferiority complex with respect to Fox News, is trying to chase that audience for some unknown reason.

Disney/ABC: Jeb could kill Disney financially by ending the very, very special tax treatment given to Walt Disney World... that was the stated reason why Miramax is not going to distribute Fahrenheit 911.

I'm so glad so many people are telling the truth. It makes me regain some hope in humanity. :thumbsup:

back in the day. I see why, he seems sharp.

for the former admin and military people to come out and tell the truth.

The Bush organized crime family has used up their ammo on O'Neal, Clarke and Kay already ... they will try but they cannot destroy any more people, their credibility is sinking as each week passes.

In a month, the great comunicatior Bill Clinton will be on every talk show peddling his book and he will undoubtedly be asked about this. Clinton can explain it to the bubbas and hicks much more easily than anyone else can.

As the credibility goes down, more and more people will come forward and critcize the policies to bring the chimp down.

I've never seen Zinni speaking, and cannot wait until Sunday to see this show. What a moment to look forward to, thank god for CBS.

From the article:

In his upcoming book, "Battle Ready," written with Tom Clancy, Zinni writes of the poor planning in harsh terms. "In the lead-up to the Iraq war and its later conduct, I saw, at minimum, true dereliction, negligence and irresponsibility; at worst, lying, incompetence and corruption," he writes.

Zinni explains to Kroft, "I think there was dereliction in insufficient forces being put on the ground and fully understanding the military dimensions of the plan."

EOM..

It's 108 degrees right now, but it only FEELS like 106! They are catching a break.

Thanks for posting this link.

:kick:

It was brief, but hard hitting.

Zinni practicaly called on Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and the rest to resign.

Discussion of charges of antisemitism, too.

I'll make sure to watch it when it comes on. I already had my suspicions!

worth a :kick:.