Navy Crew Remembers 1967 Israeli Attack

Navy Crew Remembers 1967 Israeli Attack

May 22, 5:36 AM (ET)

By JEAN ORTIZ

NEBRASKA CITY, Neb. (AP) - For the nearly 20 surviving crew members of the USS Liberty, a gathering after 37 years was as much about the future as it was about the past. The Liberty, an intelligence-gathering vessel, was attacked by Israel in June 1967 while cruising international waters off the Egyptian coast during the Six Day War.

Israel was the war's victor, defeating the combined forces of Egypt, Syria, Jordan.

The attack was ruled accidental by U.S. officials. Emerging reports, including disclosures in the last year from some military officials, state the attack appeared to be deliberate - something that the crew members have suspected all along.

"We all believe we're finally getting to the point where the truth may be told and the world is ready to listen," said Cmdr. David Lewis, who oversaw intelligence on the ship and remembers most of the attack that left him with superficial burns and destroyed his eardrums.

...

"It was covered up at the highest level," Lewis said.

....

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040522/D82NHUD80.html

Are our politicians so corrupt that a nation can attack our armed forces and as long as that nation has a rich and powerful PAC in the US, they can buy us off?

than Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are, yet you won't hear the Bush Administration saying anything against those regimes. Rather, we prop up those tyrannical regimes with funding, weapons and political support.

The Liberty incident happened almost 40 years ago. It has been investigated and reinvestigated and reinvestigated, and yet no direct evidence has surfaced indicating any kind of deliberate attack. Its simply an old canard kept alive by the anti-Israel and anti-Semitic elements.

I didn't say that everybody keeping the story alive is an anti-Semite and don't you say I did, but rather that anti-Semitic types have done their best to get a maximum of mileage out of it. If this were a 40 year old story out of any other country, it would have been dropped as a historical footnote after only the first dozen or so investigations.

and as you demonstrate above, gone unacknowledged even to this very day, for the most part.

maybe it is time to let the FULL STORY of the ME to be told and not just the sterile ver.

whaddaya say :shrug:

peace

it was an American ship that had to be silenced so as not to intentionally or inadvertently reveal what the Israelis were up to was a given from my recollection and IMHO. But what do I know?

Still haven't got a straight answer on that one....

JFK was shot by one man, Lee Harvey Oswald, from the sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook Depository.

Now we can debate the JFK assasination, but what the hell does that have to do with the USS Liberty?

The point was that the assassination is a similarly dated story that remains under investigation and national debate. And not with everyone who asks questions about JFK can we so easily ascribe the motives of being a conspiracy flake. Information is still coming out, just like the Liberty.

What's more, these guys were there.

I think conspiracy theories concerning the JFK assasination are an even bigger waste of time than are those concerning the Liberty.

To so easily put any new information about the events of JFK's murder somehow into the realm of conspiracy theories. We should just forget about it, and move on, right?

Information is just that. It doesn't have a motive.

Like your assumption that we disagree regarding Oswald. You don't actually know what I think, yet you immediately assumed we disagree.

(That you happen to be correct is another story.)

.....is NEVER a waste of time! :evilgrin:

i suggest you use "anti- jewish types" from now on-look up what "semites" means.....

And determine that anti-Semitic commonly refers to someone who is anti-Jewish and that the arguments otherwise are a smokescreen.

do not become 'historical' footnotes. Those connected with the 'incident' will never forget this injustice. The attempt to downgrade the attack by people who try to imply that Israel is without taint in any of their actions is reprehensible.

of Israel apologists. I have respect for Israeli's who work for the betterment of truth and justice for ALL in their own country. No respect for those who support the aggressive and corrupt leadership exhibited by Sharon and Co.

"The Liberty incident happened almost 40 years ago. It has been investigated and reinvestigated and reinvestigated, and yet no direct evidence has surfaced indicating any kind of deliberate attack."

does their ally status excuse their crimes?

:hi:

peace

Israel made a mistake, a very serious mistake, but one to which we contributed and one for which they atoned almost 40 years ago.

The Liberty accident is not any different than the US bombings of wedding parties in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yes it is tragic and lamentable. Yes, if anybody was criminally negligent they should be brought to justice, but tragedy is the ultimate and inevitable consequence of all forms of armed conflict and its silly and useless to magnify one event out of proportion. There is no evidence of any deliberate Israeli action, and a great many innocents on all sides have died by accident in any of the many Middle East conflicts.

it was just a mistake, ic.

seems as if the crew disagrees with you and if you don't mind i prefer to take their word - not to mention many others in the area and who have more knowledge of that horrific day - over yours in this matter.

you are known to be an apologist for your side no matter the crime so why should i expect any different on this matter.

never mind

peace

What exactly does "my side" entail?

and all that would imply, entails.

peace

Marcus Tullius was a pacifist and a defender of the Republic. His career as a defense lawyer was consistently courageous, as he defended the poor (e.g. P. Quinctius) against the force of public opinion and moneyed interests. Cicero was incorruptible, always honest, and trusted by all.

While I appreciate the compliment, his rhetorical skills were really a lot better than my own. Moreover, Cicero's disdain for democracy does not reflect my own views.

though you should read Parenti's book "the peoples history of rome' to get a better definition of what i am implying, but suffice to say that you are an apologist for the power that be, imo, demonstrated by your many post on this public forum.

btw: i said nothing about your rhetoric nor your prose.

peace


The Assassination of Julius Caesar
A People's History of Ancient Rome

more...
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Caesar.html

peace

The Liberty accident is not any different than the US bombings of wedding parties in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yes it is tragic and lamentable. Yes, if anybody was criminally negligent they should be brought to justice, but tragedy is the ultimate and inevitable consequence of all forms of armed conflict and its silly and useless to magnify one event out of proportion.

I have to agree with that. I'd add too that we'll likely never know the real deciding facts of these matters.

Was a very recognizable ship. I saw it many times in the Med. There is no way the Israeli pilots made a mistake, no way.

180

is easily distinguished from Syrian infiltrators, and the Chinese embassy in Baghdad looks totally different from whatever the target was supposed to be, and the Union regiments at First Mannassas that mistakenly fought each other should have known the difference...

In hindsight your argument may work. But there is nothing more chaotic than war, and the Six Day War was the biggest and most chaotic war in the region since antiquity. Accidents happen. 40 years hence, still without any direct evidence implicating Israel, it just may be time to move on.

but don't let that stop you... not to mention a US WAR SHIP in BROAD DAYLIGHT in the open sea with the most sophisticated communications available and an ALLY no less.

do you work for diney or their agents?

peace

Say Israeli planes were so close they could wave to each other. Now how was it they missed the 20 foot American flag, the words LIBERTY written on the side, the fact that this ship which they supposedly thought was shelling Israel had no cannons, and that it was over 3 times the size of the ship they claimed to confuse it with?

...another command just prior to the Israeli attack. He told me that the survivors knew then, as they know now, that the attack was deliberate.

The strafing of the ship by the Israeli planes killed a few people and did quite a bit of damage, but the torpedo that hit the ship resulted in the deaths of 28 sailors. That torpedo also struck the ship in the exact compartment that housed the signal-intelligence group and their equipment which prevented the Liberty from conducting her mission.

The guy I knew also told me the reason the Liberty was attacked. Israel did not want the U. S. to know exactly when they were going to launch a surpise attack on Egypt's air force. LBJ had told them that the U. S. did not support a war btween Israel and her enemies. They believed, quite correctly, that the Liberty was the only unit in the area capable of monitoring and reporting Israel's movements.

The so-called "investigations" into the attack on the Liberty were superficial and succeeded only in defusing the anger America felt toward Israel at that time.

in the Mediterranean Sea. The pilots made no mistake. A ship sitting on the water's surface is not a confusing object. A ship is a ship, is a ship; one cannot confuse it with oh, say a whale.

The extremely skilled and well trained pilots did not make a mistake. They are some of the best pilots of war planes in the whole wide world and they are very proud of that fact.

It was not a mistake.

180. USN Ret.

..

I can tell you which one it is (if it is old enough to have been around when I was USN) I can tell by the running lights, DD's, LST's and other such ships.
Ship recognition skills are vital for military people, especially Aviators.

The Liberty was attacked on purpose. Fortunately, LBJ did not give the final go-ahead to nuke Israel, as he was prepared to do based on the strike package sent out after the attack from the carrier battle group.

You see, you have to know things like this to understand the magnitude of this particular war crime. And understand that the Liberty was uncovering another war crime at the same time which would have made Mr. Sharon (then, I believe Major or Colonel) a prisoner in jail, and certainly not a PM now.

That was the real reason, and it is the reason no one can prove it one way or the other.

All discussion of this, as it does every year on my birthday, annoys the shit out of me, as more and more clueless idiots pick more and more extreme sides on both sides.

I don't understand why every time anyone says ANYTHING questioning the credibility of Israel as an ally someone has to throw anti-semitism in the air. It is getting really old. No one said a thing about the attackers being Jewish, so what makes this anti-semitism. For some reason I think if survivors of a Japanese attack were speaking no one would call them racist. Get over yourself.

And for you to dismiss their questions because 40 years has passed is even MORE ridiculous. I would like you to look into any of these survivors eyes and say " Its simply an old canard kept alive by the anti-Israel and anti-Semitic elements."

This makes me ill.

I found this article tremendously interesting and helpful, and it includes this fascinating little tidbit:

http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/module.php?mod=book&op=print&id=806

per: Yes. Anti-Semitism feeds on the idea that Israel is a victim. The Foreign Ministry of Israel invented a new form of anti-Semitism in the last few years called the 'New anti-Semitism,' and they then found some professors willing to give it some academic credibility. The New anti-Semitism that is now being spread all over says that any criticism of Israel is anti-Semitism, period. And it has been very effective.

Well, I ain't buyin'. I happen to have a stubborn, contrary streak anyway. And if anyone wants to call me an anti-Semite simply because I don't wholeheartedly approve of everything Israel does (or much of any of it under Sharon), OR believe based on first-hand accounts of the men who were there that the 45-minute sustained attack on the Liberty was no accident, then so be it. I'm an anti-Semite, then, and not at all ashamed of it. I quite simply refuse to be bullied and intimidated in that way. So I'm an anti-Semite, and I just might start identifying myself in just that way. Eventually those brilliant bullies who thought up this genius tactic will see it backfiring on them when (a) people like me stop giving a damn about being called anti-Semite, (b) the line with REAL anti-Semitism gets blurred enough that it goes unaddressed, and (c) they produce a backlash that amounts to REAL anti-Semitism.

BTW, the whole article is interesting -- explains some of why and how Israel has us by the short hairs -- and I recommend it highly.

Eloriel
A Proud New Anti-Semite since I think Sharon is a bonafide maniac (possibly even a psychopath) whose policies and actions are every bit as destructive as anything else going on over there. :P

Thanks for the link to the article, it was very interesting!

I wish more Americans would actually read this sort of thing.

"Its a hell of a lot more of an ally, than Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are," still not much of an ally

"yet you won't hear the Bush Administration saying anything against those regimes." of course, there all part of the Bush-Bin-Ladin
Carlyle group crime associates...

It has not been investigated, reinvestigated etc. (a la count, count and recount)by parties that have the authority to act.

The US Govt has hidden this shame for years and each administration that has continued the lies should be shamed in public.

How dare anyone state-- it happened 40 years ago... implying that folks should get over it.

With that line of reasoning, folks should get over Armenian genocide and other atrocities.

Until the truth comes out and those parties involved in the coverup and attack are brought to justice, this issue will continue to fester.

As for US attacks against Egypt, Saudi Arabia etc.-- there is ample proof of US attacks against these countries' leadership over the years. As for Israel-- much less so. And the support by the US of Israel far outstrips that of other countries-- this support is for a country that has for, close to 40 years, occupied and brutalized people. Hmmm... Guess folks should just get over that too.

As the son of a career officer, it is, in my view, a necessity that the US government supports any and all investigation into the USS Liberty matter without covering up for would be allies.

Yes, your comparison of the apparently accidental bombing of one ship to the Armenian Genocide adds loads of credibility to your argument.

While you're at it, why don't you compare the Israeli pilots to SS guards?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Iraqi wedding party attack, speaking of comparisons.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I was not comparing the USS Liberty to the Armenian Genocide.

I was comparing the statement of something that happened 40 years ago should be "gotten over"

It appears that some cannot get it.

Shameful.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/


20 survivors of the attack on the Liberty would not agree with you.
CMDR. David Lewis would not agree with you.
Admiral Thomas Moorer would not have agreed with you.
The facts would not agree with your claim the attack being an old canard. The attack was not investigated, reinvestigated and reinvestigated. The attack was not investigated by Congress. Pres. Johnson essentially ordered a coverup of the incident. The survivors of the attack have tried for many years to have the truth exposed. Why ? because 35 crew members were killed and 171 wounded, some left with debilitating medical conditions.
It is being kept alive by those concerned NOT because of anti-Israel and anti-Semantic 'elements', but because the truth demands to be told.

and still suffers from wounds received that day. My personal knowledge of first hand eyewitness account has absolutely nothing to do with anti-semitism. He was ordered never to speak of what he knew - facts were covered up for 30 years and are still being manipulated.

A signed affidavit:

Retired Navy Capt. Ward Boston, the former counsel for the Navy's Court of Inquiry, released a signed affidavit in October, stating he was ordered by President Lyndon Johnson and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara, to conclude the attack was unintentional, despite evidence to the contrary.

From the linked article

:crazy:

It's just so weird to me that, whenever someone asks a question or explores an inconsistency that fails to fall rank-n-file with certain, let's say, "mindsets",...they are automatically accused of being somehow prejudice irrespective of the fact that they just want the damn truth.

UGH!!!

"It has been investigated and reinvestigated and reinvestigated"

Oh yeah.

"The votes have been counted and recounted and recounted again. Get over it."

I knew I heard that reasoning before...

RL

as such against ALL Jews??!!

PREPOSTEROUS!

From memory, although time frame could very well be longer, the Israel attack was of a duration of at least TWENTY MINUTES

HOW the F*** is that NOT a DELIBERATE ATTACK?!

And you better learn your terminology - "Semitic" means ALL people of the Middle East
Definition: "a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic"
so that includes all the PALESTINIAN, Eqyptian, Saudi Arabian, Iraqi, et al peoples!

You must mean Anti-ZIONIST
But I'll be that won't suit your simplistic agenda, will it? So you'll continue to use "Anti-Semite" and hope other people won't know the difference so you can back them down with PseudoPolitical Correctness!

There are MANY Israeli groups such as Gush Shalom,
one's very memorable theme is 'There are things good people just do not do'

You ALSO don't see Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan occupying, creating settlements, mowing down houses in said occupied land (AND PEOPLE) and exterminating the rightful citizens
so there is NO COMPARISON!

He asked "why is Israel considered an ally?", and you have responded with nothing but non-sequiters about other nations that have absolutly nothing to do with the question or Israel.

Rather, we prop up those tyrannical regimes with funding, weapons and political support.

Is this response even serious? Do you realize how much more "funding, weapons and political support" is provided to Israel? Do you realize it is more than to any other nation on the planet? Do you realize it is not even close? What concerns me is that I think you do realize these things.

Care to answer the question?

Isn't an alliance a two-way street along the lines of you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours?

So I know we take care of Israel in the UN, send lots of dollars and weapons, rattle our sabers for them and so forth.

But what is it they do for us in return? I can't think of anything public. So they are scratching our back secretly in some big way?

After reading an article from a link above, and from my research into the topic, it seems that the majority of the 'special relationship' was from back in the Cold War days when it was convenient to have an ally in that region.

Now we have an 'ally' that acts out war crimes on a captive population, creates tension in an already-tense region, and acts as our clearing-house for weapons to the rest of the world.

goes back way further than the cold war - try WW1 era, oil and suez canal (trade route) motives. It was to the benefit of the US & british financial influentials to to promote settlement in the region by former europeans who just happened to be of the jewish faith. The Holocaust was a Pearl Harbor event that enabled legitimization of a new "friendly" country in the region.

Well rather than have these monies to help the underclass of America, the working poor the Israeli lobby kindly sees to it that the money is "better spent"
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html
Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.

when one of the worst spy cases in recent years was an american spying for israel?

or mobuto for that matter, they'll explain it to you.

peace

its a GOOD thing Johnson did it. This was at the height of the cold war, something that chaotic released to the public would have meant world war 3 and a resurgance of anti-Jewish attacks.

"its a GOOD thing Johnson did it. This was at the height of the cold war, something that chaotic released to the public would have meant world war 3 and a resurgance of anti-Jewish attacks."


What the hell? It is a good thing if an intentional attack was covered up and never acted on? I am certainly not for WWIII by any means, but to cover this up and continue with the charade of a an alliance is ridiculous.

Every 'incident' since WW2 will be claimed as perpetuating WW3. LOL

how could it possibly have started WWIII?

If anything it would have showed the U.S. got stabbed in the back by the very country it was helping. Perhaps we would have been the laughing stock
...but start WWIII?

It's still highly improbable that other countries would have landed on Israel like a sack of bricks unless that one incident ticked off the US populace and the politicians SO much that we flat-out abandoned them. Which is also highly improbable... all Israel would have to do is say "I'm sowwy" --only very publicly-- and we would have calmed down.

IMO what very well could have started WWIII is us behind Israel and the USSR behind the Arab countries which Israel attacked... and the fighting getting worse and worse until there was no more pretending that it was Israel and Arab countries at war - but the US & USSR at war!

Israel is in it for Israel, end of story.
There is no contract Sharon will not break to get what he wants.
Sharon can (and does) act with impunity only because of US backing.
Very sad.

Bush. Both are meglomaniacs of less than average intelligence and neither seem to be able to understand that their actions always have consequenses and usually nasty ones at that. Or if they do understand that, they just don't give a darn about it as long as it is someone else who suffers.

Or the US doesn't spy on Israel?
LMAO
Among other proof of Israeli spies in the United States, do some reading on what happened in the NY area on the day of September 11

You expect any honor to exist between these two 'thieves': the US & Israel?!
The US treats Israel as the spoiled younger brother, and Israel acts like -of course- the older bully's younger brother

But they still sneak through the others rooms & go through their stuff!

Puh-leaze! Both can be just plain nasty, and to each other in the bargain


*editing since hit 'update' instead of 'Preview'

Can't help but notice over the years that Israel get away with a lot of shit that should get them in hot water with us. Back in the 80's the Israelis developed an air superiority fighter called the Lavi. It was great but they couldn't afford to produce or support it and it went by the way side. China showed interest in it a while back and they jumped at the chance. Since then Israel and China have become pretty chummy.

Israel hold very high status in US Arms sales. They get the good stuff, not export versions. They buy with an agreement they will not resell. Just after Sept 11th I read that they sold 3 F-16's to China. Obvious reverse engineering. They US said nothing about it. Cute. Then they sold 3 "communication" satellites to the Chinese. Actually they were first generation targeting sats they never got around to launching.

Can't help but noticing, for a nation that pretty much owes its continued existence on the US, they sure go out of their way to screw us over any chance they can.

Hi, I am new here, have been reading here for about a week. The Liberty is something I know about. Grace Halsell worked in the White House at the same time as fellow Texan, Bill Moyers. She was an author-journalist who died in 2000. Years ago she was famous for her book "Soul Sister" about when she lived as a black woman after having a dermatologist make her skin dark. She was quite a humanitarian and was in great demand as a speaker around the country. There was no taint on her reputation until she became concerned about the Middle East. She wrote a book called "Journey to Jerusalem" in 1981 that was about her visits and conversations with both Israelis and Palestinians. After that, she was smeared as anti-semitic, and her career was greatly damaged, even though all she had done was portray some Palestinians as people with their own side of the story. I write about her especially fondly because I met her once.

Here is a link to her account of what happened the day The Liberty was attacked:

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0693/9306020.htm

Thanks for posting this account. Everyone should know the truth behind Johnson's move to suppress the truth about the attack on the USS Liberty.

I look forward to reading more of your posts. Thanks for the info on Grace Halsell!

:toast:


Wattenberg. What a card!

"They Dare to Speak Out" written by Paul Findley

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/155652482X/qid=1085350850/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-9098578-4395959

Grace Halsell

It was under attack for over 45 minutes, was hit by rockets and torpedos, was napalmed, and its life rafts were machine-gunned by the Israeli's as they tried to launch them (even more unbelievable that - they wanted no-one to survive??)

In all that -- did the Liberty ever fight back? Ever fire a shot?

There is a comprehensive web site that tells all about the attack and the cover-up afterwards.

http://www.ussliberty.org

:hi:

I tend to be especially fond of members who bring information to bear! I hope you find this board a healthy demonstration of democracy at work!!!

:yourock:

Thanks to Just Me and Tinoire, Actually I do research and help a friend who writes on the Middle East. I use a name (even just a first) other than my own at message boards because of unbelievable hate and threat e-mail that comes in if someone reveals an identity.

As I mentioned in post above, I did meet Grace Halsell once. I have also had some correspondence with Jim Ennes of the Liberty. The part in her article about Arthur and Mathilde Krim is very important. How did a drop-dead gorgeous blond ex-wife (her first marriage before Krim) of an Irgun terrorist get to be the obvious infatuation of LBJ? Krim even jokes in his LBJ Library oral history about how a picture of Mathilde and LBJ kind of "waltzing all night" was shown round the world. The Irgun were the ultra-extremist Zionists before the founding of Israel who were assassins (of Lord Moyne), bombers (of the King David Hotel), and did the infamous massacre of Palestinian civilians at Deir Yassin. Albert Einstein, Judah Magnes, and many other humanitarian Jews denounced the activities of the Irgun.

As Grace Halsell explains, author Donald Neff did a great deal of research and interviewed Mathilde Krim: "Reporter Neff, in his book entitled Warriors for Jerusalem: The Six Days That Changed the Middle East, documents Mathilde's role as a young "gun-runner" for the Jewish terrorist group. "As a seemingly innocent petite and pretty blonde out for a bicycle ride along Switzerland's borders," wrote Neff, "she in reality was taking messages and explosives into neighboring France and Italy—to be passed on to the Irgunists." Is it too much to wonder what a questionable person such as this woman was doing sleeping in the White House as the Johnsons' best gal buddy only 20 years after being involved in such criminal activities? She and her second husband Krim (a Hollywood executive) who was a major contributor to LBJ's political funds often "advised" Johnson on what his Middle East policies should be.

Perhaps more folks would like to see the details and the connection with the attack on the Liberty at this link I post again:

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0693/9306020.htm

Personal note: I have almost always voted Democratic but am an Independent.

It explains a lot.

How ugly.

...while being strafed. As a former Navy Gunnery/Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer, that kind of armament against well-armed jets flown by very good pilots is less than worthless.

AG-168 / AGTR-5 Liberty
<http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/6005.htm>

Excerpt:

"The following summary is from the jacket of the book, Assault on the Liberty by James M. Ennes, Jr.; Random House, New York, 1979, ISBN 0-394-50512-3:

In June 1967, jet aircraft and motor torpedo boats of Israel brutally assaulted an American naval vessel, the USS LIBERTY, in international waters off the Sinai Peninsula in the Mediterranean Sea. The attack was preceded by more than six-hours of intense low-level surveillance by Israel photo-reconnaissance aircraft, which buzzed the intelligence ship thirteen times, sometimes flying as low as 200 feet directly overhead. The carefully orchestrated assault that followed was initiated by high-performance jet aircraft, and was followed up by slower and more maneuverable jets carrying napalm, and was finally turned over to lethal torpedo boats, which blasted a forty-foot hole in the ship's side.

The attack lasted more two hours-killing 34 Americans and wounding 171 others-and inflicted 821 rocket and machine-gun holes in the ship. And when the LIBERTY stubbornly remained afloat despite her damage, Israeli forces machine-gunned her life rafts and sent troop-carrying helicopters to finish the job. At this point, with Sixth Fleet rescue aircraft finally enroute, the government of Israel apologized and the attacking forces suddenly withdrew. Only then did the identity of the assailants become known."

barring flak, I guess. (Yah I know that's not precisely a weapon)

.50 cals against F4's? Did not do the VC much good. Liberty might have got lucky, but that would have been about it.

It might have distracted a pilot's run and saved a few lives, or mounting them topside while under attack might have gotten more killed.

Who knows?

before anyone could even get to the small guns that they had. Their mission was communications not combat - not expecting any attack, nobody was manning weapons! My brother inlaw was just relaxing on deck at the time the napalm hit.

Word is there was a US carrier on station and their were Phantoms on the hot decks but they were loaded with nukes. It was all over by the time they could get non-nuke carying Phantoms on the cats.

n/t

His conclusions about the attack on the USS Liberty seemed pretty clear from what I can remember.

Didn't see this mentioned. The Russians have a version of this story that kind of holds water. There was a Russian trawler not far from the Liberty doing its cold war "trawler" thing. Israel was correct in that everything the Liberty found or saw was communicated back to the US. Israel knew the Russians would hear everything and could possibly decript and report. The Liberty was a datalink site for SR-71's that were constantly overflying the battfield.

The Israelis took a big gamble and pulled their rear guard and flanking forces and did a huge last try push right up the middle of the teetering enemy forces. They knew that the SR's could see the shift in force and might communicate that back to the pentagon. If it was decoded by the Russians they would communicate to the Arab forces who then could easily flank the Israelis. They had to silence a huge liablility. All of this was released with the breakdown of the Soviets system in the early 90's.

In the early 70's there was an article in Aviation Week & Space Technology (highly reliable) with the XO of the squadron. He admitted it was a deliberate strike for the same reason listed above. To say it was a case of mistaken identy is completely laughable.