Some senators wear aprons to protest pastor's sinful remarks

http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/9410050p-10334360c.html


Several state senators donned kitchen aprons and scarlet "M"s Monday to protest remarks by a pastor who said female lawmakers with small children at home were "sinful."
Sen. Debra Bowen said the domestic revolt was to point out that the lawmakers with children "can do as good a job being parents as they can being legislators."

Bowen and other lawmakers said they were furious to learn that the Rev. Ralph Drollinger, who leads a Bible study class for lawmakers, wrote in a Bible lesson that women lawmakers with young children at home are sinners.
"It is one thing for a mother to work out of her home while her children are in school," wrote Drollinger. "It is quite another matter to have children in the home and live away in Sacramento for four days a week. Whereas the former could be in keeping with the spirit of Proverbs 31, the latter is sinful."

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I wrote to as many state senators in So Cal as I could find addresses for. Here's what I wrote:

Re: http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=CAL-CAPS-05-21-04

Sen Bowen,
I am writing you to express not only my admiration at your demonstration against the Pharasee, Ralph Drollinger, but my disgust at the fact that Drollinger holds weekly bible instruction at the state capitol on its premises to instruct senators in bible-based teachings. In fact, according to the article at the above link: "Capitol Ministries does not get public funds but uses Capitol rooms for its meetings. "

One of the hallmarks of our great country is the separation of church and state. While I have no problem with senators receiving instructions, at their own leisure on their own time away from the capitol, I do have an immense problem with the fact that they are using state property, which lends an air of impropriety, to do this. Exactly who pays for the electricity and heating/cooling of the room in use? Taxpayers? That is not why I'm paying taxes, Senator.

If my tax dollars are going to be used to support the furthering of a religious agenda (why else would you go up on state property if you weren't trying to influence legislators by using religion as a means of coersion?), then there needs to be a wider variety of religious viewpoints presented---how about a Muslim prayer meeting? What about a Catholic meeting? What about a wiccan meeting? What about an atheism meeting? What about earth-based religious meetings?

As I've said, I have no problem with those who want to get a deeper understanding, and if Rev. Drollinger would like to continue by providing this from his home or his church or even the local Ramada Inn, that would be one thing. But it is unacceptable that he is able to use the state capitol building to hold these meetings.

I would like to see you take a stand against this blatant degradation of the separation between church and state. Contrary to what Rev. Drollinger and his ilk try to make people believe, our founding fathers were adamantly opposed to the co-mingling of church and
state, and their extant writings bear this out in a clear, concise manner.

In fact, "And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together." (James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822; published in The
Complete Madison: His Basic Writings, ed. by Saul K. Padover, New York: Harper & Bros., 1953.)

Leave the matter of religion to the family, the altar, the church, and the private school, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separate" (Ulysses S. Grant, 1875, Leo Pfeffer, Church, State, and Freedom, 1967, p. 337).

"Religious matters are to be separated from the jurisdiction of the state not because they are beneath the interests of the state, but, quite to the contrary, because they are too high and holy and thus are beyond the competence of the state." (Isaac Backus, An Appeal to the Public for Religious Liberty, 1773, as quoted by Albert Menendez and Edd Doerr, compilers, The Great Quotations on Religious Liberty, Long Beach, CA: Centerline Press, 1991, p. 7.)

It is of the utmost importance that the separation not be gutted by someone seeking to glorify himself by trodding on the constitution for his own prideful edification.

Thank you

I'm adding your quotes to my file.

Hekate

http://www.sunnetworks.net/~ggarman/church.html

links to the quotes... also, for some reason I can't find the bookmark that has the well researched listing of quotes, which I primarily used. If I can find it, I'll post that, too.

Long ago (like 15-20 years) a woman wrote a letter to the L.A. Times quoting George Washington's document on the Treaty of Tripoli, in which he reassured the Muslim co-signers that "as the United States is in no sense a Christian nation" they had nothing to fear from us. I am quite sure that this Enlightenment gentleman was referring to the long and bloody history of "Christian nations" from Byzantium to Britain hell-bent on conquering and converting their neighbors by the sword (the Muslims also did a lot of that in their time: they got as far as China and as near as Vienna).

In any case, I've always felt that the founders of our nation knew what they were doing in keeping allegiance to any specific religion out of government. It's appalling that the providers of textbooks for the home-schooling movement have rewritten American history to support their beliefs rather than the facts: to a generation of the home-schooled and their parents, George Washington was a born-again and not a Deist.

I clipped that letter and it's still around someplace, but as the need is greater than ever for those of us who aren't propagandized and misinformed to speak out, I am glad to be storing up other evidence to use.

:wtf:



http://www.wgoeshome.com

:hi:

I am speechless...
:eyes:

Just like our Great Leader.

-- Allen

YOUR life
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/21/newsid_2565000/2565197.stm
1988: TV evangelist quits over sex scandal
Jimmy Swaggart, America's leading television evangelist, has resigned from his ministry after it was revealed he had been consorting with a prostitute.

In front of a congregation of 7,000 in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, he sobbed and confessed to "moral failure" without actually going into any detail.


I have sinned against you and I beg your forgiveness

Jimmy Swaggart
"I do not plan in any way to whitewash my sin or call it a mistake," he told shocked members of his Family Worship Centre.

Turning to his wife, Frances, he said: "I have sinned against you and I beg your forgiveness."
(snip)

downfall of this country if they are allowed to continue interferring in politics and assaulting the Constitution of the US. Bush as the leader has esculated the drive by the radical religious to take over the mechanics of the US government. This is the most dangerous problem facing those of us who believe in freedom of religion.

Bowen, D-Marina del Rey, went barefoot on the floor of the Senate, brought a toaster and other kitchen accessories to her desk there and sported the scarlet "M" for mother.

"Today, I'll be serving up a billion dollars in savings for PG&E customers, identity theft legislation, and power plant siting rules," she said, "along with bacon and eggs, getting my shopping list together and preparing to can."

I sent the article to every Californian woman in my address book.

Not a fucking word about the MALE lawmakers who might have small children at home! Aren't the fundies always screeching and ranting and raving about the importance of FATHERS and FAMILIES and BOTH PARENTS, etc., etc.? And, other than members of his congregation who freely choose to follow him, who the hell cares what this so-called pastor thinks? What business is it of his?

"I'm all for the female legislators serving our great state with all of their giftedness, in due time," Drollinger said. "If they have children at home, they need to share those gifts with their children. Then after that, as Ecclesiastes says, there is a season that they can serve in the Legislature."

Capitol Ministries is a nonprofit organization that offers Bible study classes for lawmakers. In Sacramento, about a dozen lawmakers attend the Wednesday morning classes _ most of the regular attendees are Republican.
...
About a dozen senators _ both male and female _ joined the protest, including the usually bombastic Senate President Pro Tem John Burton, who presided over the Senate while adorned in a pink flowered apron.

"There isn't anything more guilt-inducing we do in life than being a parent," said Sen. Jack Scott, D-Altadena, who wore a white apron over his suit. "I think it's inappropriate for anyone to suddenly label a whole group of people as sinners."
*****

On the face of it, fundies like this ignore the fact that their professed "savior" said HE fulfilled all requirements of the LAW (in the OT).
IOW - you can't do it DUDE.

A larger question looms. SO THE HELL WHAT?? This is just a leaping off point. What if a woman stays home with the kids and shoplifts all day long? :shrug: No .. there is danger when LEGISLATORS are encouraged to view some of their peers and/or constituents as "sinners".

That's one prescient book!

</sarcasm>

The fundies in their infinite compassion understand the necessity of keeping poor women off welfare, after all. Just not far enough away from welfare to give them uppity ideas.

I've always wondered if they simply think the worst sinners are women who might upset the status-quo by getting an education and competing with men.

Better that a woman -- any woman, regardless of her true talents -- use her education to home-school her brood. Like that poor soul in Texas who finally went mad and drowned them all. Everyone in her life told her she was doing God's Will -- why, then, was she not happy? Why did the voices in her head keep telling her she was such a failure that her children were doomed to damnation if she let them get any older?

God: please save us from those who claim loudest to be your followers.

Hekate

I expect this from my crazy state, but CA?

Hey Rev Ralph, instead of labeling women "sinners" as they do the people's work, why don't you STFU and do the Lord's work - you know, taking care of the sick, poor, downtrodden, hungry - oh wait! It's so much more fun burning witches at the stake than actually doing anything pro-actively "Christ-like".

These fanatic whack-jobs make me sick.
I just want to beat them senseless with their own bibles.:spank:

I have a problem with this if they're using the state capitol building to hold their bible studies class. Who's paying for the electricity bill? Who's paying to heat or a/c the room? Taxpayers? Where's the separation of church and state? Can the pastor be taxed, since he's ministering to government people using governmental property (if the meetings are held in the capitol bldg)?

If the senators need instruction that badly, they need to attend their Wednesday bible class at their own church. To me, it looks like this one man is influencing lawmakers and putting over an inappropriate mindset, which flies in the face of the gains in which women have gotten since the 70's.

They can meet at the pastor's house, if it's that important to have the bible meetings--I'm not saying they can't have them, but not on state property with electricity and heating/a-c being paid for by tax dollars.

California has more than its share of crazies.

And don't worry, they have a *mission* to come to your state too!!

"Capitol Ministries is singularly focused on establishing biblical ministries in State Capitols throughout our nation - and eventually the world - in order to bring the Gospel of Christ to elected officials. Currently, we minister to legislators in several state capitols, ranging from California and Oregon in the west, to Pennsylvania and North Carolina in the east.

I invite you to consider what role you might play in advancing the cause of the Gospel through this seriously needed ministry. Please visit the different areas of this site to learn more about our mission and how you can participate in your state. "

http://www.capitolministries.org

Do they allow Catholic instruction, too? Do they allow wiccan instruction? Do they allow exploration in atheistism?

If they're not offering all of these, then they shouldnt' be allowed to have just one view preached to elected officials to the exclusion of the others.

and save their religious activities to be spent on their own time.
What a concept.

-- went on a quotations romp

I believe that religion can make a well-rounded person, or it can make an idiot. What we've go going on here is an idiot.
Purchasing agent for Baylor Baptist University, Waco, Texas, commenting on David Koresh and the Branch Dividians.

We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)

One man's religion is another man's belly laugh.
Isacc Azimov

We have enough religion to hate each other, but not enough to love each other.
Jonathan Swift (1667 - 1745)

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge or gallantry would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other.
John Adams (1735 - 1826)

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do.
Samuel P. Huntington

Imagine there’s no countries, it isn’t hard to do; nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
John Lennon (1940 - 1980), Imagine

Many people profess Christianity. Very few live it-almost none. And when you live it people may think you're crazy. It has been truthfully said that the world is equally shocked by one who repudiates Christianity as by one who practices it.
Peace Pilgrim (1908 - 1981) US religious leader
In The Ultimate Success Quotations Library, 1997.

and neither will the women of Michigan!

The whole state isn't Berkeley, you know. California is the home of such luminaries as the Rev. Lou Sheldon, the suspiciously fey professional homophobe, and it's where James Dobson embarked on his career as a public menace, after earning his doctorate at USC. And Santa Ana is the home of Trinity Broadcasting Network, the television home of fashion diva Jan Crouch! (Click here for lovely photograph)

AND the Senate!

;)

Me thinks Maria Shriver might have voiced a word or two or….


http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=CAL-CAPS-05-21-04

It's not the first time Capitol Ministries has sparked controversy. The group stopped meeting in the governor's offices earlier this year after Drollinger called Catholicism a "false religion."

Thank God I'm an Atheist!!!

(yeah, fundie would be easier to say.. and mentally ill, even still, more apt....but well..I promised myself to curtail the use of fundie to describe those anti-democratic theocracy loving religious nutcases)

that said:

gawds but I'm sick of these fools...

love to ask this so called pastors would it be OK for single mothers to be on welfare so they can stay with their young children at home???

In some cases, it you have to sin, then it's ok to sin. :-)


He said he wasn't speaking about single mothers who have to work to support their children --

The aprons and all are a great attack on the comments. Women in general, and those with families in particular, bring a new and much need perspective to the legislation of this country. We should be applauding them instead of condemning the work they do for our country.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

handbook.

I don't remember God saying anything about this, and she talks with me frequently. ;)

Link: http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/ca/story/9420028p-10344294c.html

Supposedly Philip Burton wore a pink apron too, LOL!!!

I'll see if I can find a shot of that!

Enjoy!

:hi: