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PfcHammer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 10:56 AM
Original message
More Muslims now see U.S., Israel the same way
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-nj--prisonerabuse-mus0528may28,0,3720881,print.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

More Muslims now see U.S., Israel the same way
By WAYNE PARRY
Associated Press Writer
May 28, 2004, 10:53 AM EDT

PATERSON, N.J. -- Israel's dealings with the Palestinians have long been the top grievance of many Muslims and Arab-Americans when they think about the Middle East.

But the prisoner abuse case and America's other setbacks in Iraq are increasingly linking the United States with Israel in the minds of many Muslims, who now equate American treatment of Iraqis with Israel treatment of Palestinians _ surely one of the last things President Bush hoped for when he authorized the war in Iraq.

"The more you look at Iraq, the more you see a replica of what is happening in the West Bank," said Hani Awadallah, president of the Arab-American Civic Organization in Paterson. "The story is no longer that we are there for liberation. It is clear to everybody that we are there as conquerors."

...

"This administration, God forbid, God forbid, God forbid _ I say it three times _ if George Bush will be in the White House again, he will destroy America's standing in the world," Awadallah said. "To be ignorant, arrogant and self-righteous is a dangerous combination, and he's got all three."

...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 10:56 AM
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1. I can't blame them
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sushi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 11:06 AM
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2. Can't say I disagree
wit Hani Awadallah. "To be ignorant, arrogant and self-righteous is a dangerous combination, and he's got all three." And I'm not Muslim!
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 11:11 AM
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3. Ignorant, Arrogant, and Self-Righteous
n/t
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 11:13 AM
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4. This will please Sharon, no doubt
Many of the neo-cons in both countries will not mind the association between the U.S. and Israel being solidified in minds in the Muslim world. They will see it as strengthening their hand - "this is how people see things anyway". So, I am not inclined to agree with the statement below:

"But the prisoner abuse case and America's other setbacks in Iraq are increasingly linking the United States with Israel in the minds of many Muslims, who now equate American treatment of Iraqis with Israel treatment of Palestinians _ surely one of the last things President Bush hoped for when he authorized the war in Iraq."
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 11:14 AM
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5. "ignorant, arrogant and self-righteous is a dangerous combination,"
AMEN brother, AMEN, AMEN....I say it three times.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Sounds like Dean Wormer of Faber College.
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. "Fat, Drunk, And Stupid Is No Way To Go Through Life, Dubya!"
Hence the MANLY-MAN exercising and his (supposed) break with the bottle. Alas, boosh* can't do much about the third one. (Or, as I've read somewhere, "Ignorance is curable. Stupidity is forever.")
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-04 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. It was planned/My two LIHOPs in 2001 theory
There has been a deliberate program to manipulate the American people into equating Israel and the United States. We were told that on Sept 11, were had merely suffered what Israelis had faced for decades, and at the hands of the same enemy. All Palestinians were reduced to the designation of "terrorist" -- we were "softened up" by the media so we would be prepared for intensified Israeli aggression against Palestinians. There is legislation pending to punish college professors who criticize Israel. There is legislation pending to transport convicted terrorists (i.e. Palestinians) from Israel, to face the death penalty in the US, as Israel only applies the death penalty in cases of high treason.

There is widespread discussion of the terror strike "LIHOP" (or MIHOP) , but few pause to consider that I believe was another LIHOP/MIHOP in process at the same time -- namely, the total disengagement by the Bush administration from the Israeli/Palestinian situation. Please recall that violence exploded there in the summer of 2001 -- and our government did absolutely NOTHING. not a phone call, not a diplomat sent, not a word. People were dying by the dozen *every day* in the summer of 2001. When asked about official reaction to the horrific violence, Ari Fleischer said, in effect -- if you've seen one Palestinian suicide bombing, you've seen them all, and that the adminstration was feeling pretty numb (maybe yawning about it, as Free Republic and Rush claim to find the crimes at Abu Ghraib a bore?).

AT the time I wondered -- did they simply have no policy to deal with I/P, OR was everything going exactly according to plan? Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neill have both revealed that there WAS a Bush policy in I/P from the outset -- to ignore it, and to allow one of the powers (Israel) to prevail. George W was absolutely resolute in this disengagement, throughout the conflagration of the summer of 2001.

Why? It was part of the PNAC plan. They wanted to manipulate American sympathy to the side of Israel hardliners. This was Phase 1 of The Plan; the aftermath of Sept 11, which was the invasion of Iraq, was Phase 2. The two are very very very closely related. There has been an ongoing campaign to equate the US with Israel.

America has always been supportive of Israel, but under Bush, recklessly so, and unfortunately, to the most extreme elements in Israel. There is not American "best interest" in this policy -- not only will we pay a price for this policy, but it is becoming evident that the architects of the NeoCon agenda put Israeli interests far over American ones, and moved from being mere agents of the Likud Party to traitors to the US.

Bush launched an extremely expensive PR campaign in the Middle East, designed to get the Arab world on the same page as American sheep had been manipulated to, "Who do you believe, me or your own eyes?" The comic book view of America and Israel that they attempted to sell to the Arab world failed miserably. Arabs see through this idiotic bullshit.

The NeoCons really blew it for America, and sadly, I fear, also for Israel. The policies they sent into action will not increase the security of either state, but rather diminish it for the foreseeable future, or perhaps jeopardize it forever.
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