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Christian lied about faith to survive Saudi siege

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NNN0LHI

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Mon May-31-04 10:14 AM
Original message

Christian lied about faith to survive Saudi siege

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L31513414.htm

KHOBAR, Saudi Arabia, May 31 (Reuters) - A Christian Arab who was held captive by al Qaeda militants in Saudi Arabia said on Monday he lied to them about his faith and praised their battle against the West, to save his life.

Nizar Hajazeen, a Jordanian software businessmen who was at the Tower hotel in the Oasis compound during the 25-hour drama in Khobar, said the militants lectured him about Islam and their aim to liberate Saudi Arabia from "infidels and crusaders".

The complex where the militants held about 50 foreigners -- including some Westerners -- was their last target in the violence in the eastern Saudi oil city in which they killed at least 22 people.

Hajazeen, 32, had tried to call a cab to go to work on Saturday but the phone lines were jumbled.

more

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LoneStarLiberal

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Mon May-31-04 10:19 AM
Response to Original message

1. Christian al-Taqiyya?

I wasn't aware that there was a Christian version of the Islamic al-Taqiyya...

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displacedtexan

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Mon May-31-04 10:28 AM
Response to Original message

2. If you denounce Christ, even under penalty of death...

you are consigned to the eternal flames of woe.

A true Christian would never do this.

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kalian

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Mon May-31-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #2

3. Well...you have xtians and then you have xtians....

:eyes:
Its amazing the things MODERN xtians will do to stick around this
materialistic world... :evilgrin:
I'm sure that the fundies would react in the exact way.

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truthisfreedom

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Mon May-31-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #3

28. look, if God isn't benign and forgiving, what good is he?

if the Christian God can't forgive someone for lying to save their life in a crisis situation, he becomes a fair-weather friend.

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theHandpuppet

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Mon May-31-04 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #28

33. Well...

... this is just one of some 40 gazillion transgressions that apparently merit a body the flames of eternal torment at the hands of a "loving" god. Besides, St Peter himself denied Christ three times in fear of the Romans, so I'd say this guy's survival was a sign that Christ might be a lot more forgiving than some of his followers.

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w13rd0

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Mon May-31-04 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #2

4. I'm sure plenty do though...

...such is the fear of death. After all, many have been "converted" by threat of the sword...

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Catch22Dem

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Mon May-31-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #4

5. Excellent point n/t

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abelenkpe

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Mon May-31-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #4

21. Oh I don't know

there was a whole city of believers in Otranto, Italy who refused to convert. Their bones make up a very creepy alter known as the tomb of the 800 martyrs.

Not that I think this guy should have chosen death.

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Cheswick2.0

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Mon May-31-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #2

6. nonsense

where did you get that idea?

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alcuno

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Mon May-31-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #2

7. It never says that he denounced Christ.

The article says that when asked about his faith, he said he was a Muslim. Perhaps you would see it as a matter of semantics, but I don't.

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Catch22Dem

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Mon May-31-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #2

8. Why? Because the Bible says so?

The bible says a lot of stupid shit, and is wrought with errors and inconsistencies. It was written by men, after all. Perhaps this man's "soul" will be just fine.

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Jmeyers130

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Mon May-31-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #2

9. who gives

he lied to save his life. Big f'ing deal. I'm sure your little Jesus wouldn't give a rats ass. Peter denied Jesus 3 times, so shouldn't he be burning in hell too? Yeah, i would say so. Nice logic, save it for your church

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Commie Pinko Dirtbag

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Mon May-31-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #2

10. Yeah...

...making sure one's kids still have a father is EEEEEEVEEEEEL.

That's Christian Family Values fer ya.

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Kinkistyle

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Mon May-31-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #2

11. Eating shellfish and keeping Sabbath too!

Technically eating lobster, clams and working on a Sunday should qualify you for the lava bath too, right? ;)

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mulethree

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Mon May-31-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #11

15. depends

on whether you believe the Pope has the power to move the sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day.

You get to assume that the guy who keeps track is 'practicing what he preaches' regarding forgiving over and over and over. So it doesn't matter what you do, it will be forgiven.

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Village Idiot

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Mon May-31-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #2

14. If you want to die

at the hands of terrorists in some islamofacist hellhole, more power to you...I think "Allahu Akhbar" would be the second thing out of my mouth...

I am not an Xian, tho....

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NNN0LHI

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Mon May-31-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #14

18. OK. I will bite. What would be the first thing out of your mouth? n/t

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qwertyMike

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Mon May-31-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #18

41. Allah be praised!

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enki23

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Mon May-31-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #2

17. makes a person glad it's all make-believe, doesn't it?

.

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Barrett808

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Mon May-31-04 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #2

19. In my naive understanding of Christian literature, this is a big test

Doesn't tradition hold Jesus said that being killed for testifying earns you eternal life?

The reverse poses an interesting theological question: Does denying your faith earn you damnation? I think most serious Christian theologians have done away with the doctrine of hell, so I would suggest the answer is "No."

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aquart

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Mon May-31-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #19

20. I thought you got eternal life for declaring Christ your savior.

You mean it only works if you do it when someone is threatening to kill you?

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leesa

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Mon May-31-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #20

39. Oh you nasty, nasty boy ( I'm guessing)!

Too funny Sort of like a penalty, ain't it? I swear that is why I am no longer religious....waaaaaaay too complicated and contradictory. Makes you blow a fuse.

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Roaming

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Mon May-31-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #19

37. Being killed for testifying to the Christian faith isn't what earns you

eternal life--only faith in Christ Jesus will do that. Denying your faith in a situation where you feel forced to do so certainly doesn't warrant damnation or Peter would be burning in hell right now. And no, most serious theologians who stand on the Bible for guiding their churches have NOT done away with hell.

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DoYouEverWonder

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Mon May-31-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #2

24. That's what I was taught

Edited on Mon May-31-04 02:26 PM by DoYouEverWonder

But it always seemed odd to me that the rock that Jesus supposedly built his church on, denied him three times. No wonder most of christianity is so screwed up.

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Teaser

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Mon May-31-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #2

25. What you say is crap.

and I don't know why you said it.

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Charles19

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Mon May-31-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #2

34. He wasn't

denouncing Christ he simply didn't say he was a Christian. Remember Muslims believe in Christ too, they just believe he was a prophet and messenger of God. If a Muslim actually denounces Christ he is not a Muslim. In Islam one must believe in all the prophets and messengers of God, Abraham, Christ, Noah, etc.

Not trying to defend any of the actions these people did but it does not sound like this individual was denouncing Christ.

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Roaming

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Mon May-31-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #2

36. There is absolutely nothing that says this poor men is doomed to hell

because in a moment of fear and weakness he spoke a lie to save his own life.

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Unperson 309

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Mon May-31-04 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #2

40. Peter Did It...

Three times. He's not in Hell.

I think God understands more than we do.

309

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NNN0LHI

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Mon May-31-04 11:01 AM
Response to Original message

12. Hey. How about that "Rolling Thunder" in DC? Oops. Wrong thread

:think:

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Deja Q

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Mon May-31-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message

13. Everybody has a price; trouble is,this guy has only put off Hell for later

Assuming Christianity is the only true way (:eyes:), this guy's gonna suffer in the afterlife...

Totally sad.

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Kagemusha

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Mon May-31-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #13

16. Who says he's gonna have to wait.

Judging from this thread, the man will be hunted by both Christians and Moslems for the rest of his life.

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abelenkpe

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Mon May-31-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #16

22. what surprises me

is that this guy announced his lie to everyone afterward. I mean if you just saved your own life by lying, why let everyone know? Just be glad you got out and keep your shame to yourself. Unless of course he was proud of his lie. In which case he should consider working as an executive or CEO here in the US.

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displacedtexan

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Mon May-31-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #22

23. He got good press, didn't he?

I am not a Christian. In fact, I am an atheist.

Check out Saints Justus and Pastor for church history regarding denouncing the faith.

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truthisfreedom

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Mon May-31-04 02:48 PM
Response to Original message

26. jumbled?

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fortyfeetunder

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Mon May-31-04 02:50 PM
Response to Original message

27. Was there a pop quiz after declaring not X-ian?

Sure,I don't think it's a moral problem about not being x-ian (if it means the difference betwen life and death)...but my fear is the guy might give me a pop quiz about the religion I professed to...and I might not have the right answer...

Remember during WWII there were groups of Jews who did "convert" to x-ianity to prevent being annihilated....

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pop goes the weasel

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Mon May-31-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message

29. Why does this matter?

I allow people to think I am Christian all the time, even though I am not. It makes my life easier to not turn every moment of my waking existence into a theological debate. If I lived in a primarily Muslim country, I'm sure I would do the same. And when faced with an armed True Believer, you bet I'd do the same as that Jordanian man and fess up to whatever would get me the hell out of my predicament.

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R Hickey

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Mon May-31-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message

30. Just as "There's no atheists in a foxhole..."

it seems there's not too many Christians in a Muslum hostage situation either.

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MrSlayer

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Mon May-31-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message

31. Smart move.

Do what you have to do to survive. Jesus was certainly not going to intervene and save his life. Maybe this guy will learn something about the absurdity of religion.

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justjones

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Mon May-31-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #31

38. Damned skippy. I'd say I worship Satan if it means I won't be beheaded.

I hope people really don't think this guy is wrong for doing what he had to do to survive. Who cares what they think his religion is...I think God would understand.

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Just Me

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Mon May-31-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message

32. Bah!!! The "faith" is supposed to be in GOD,...

Edited on Mon May-31-04 05:16 PM by Just Me

,...and GOD is everywhere, in everyone.

People who USE Jesus or Mohammad or anyone else to gain power or favor are,...

,...full of shit and of themselves.

GROSS.

I am so sick of this superiority complexes crap.

:argh:

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bobbieinok

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Mon May-31-04 06:12 PM
Response to Original message

35. remember the 1 or 2 girls at Columbine who supposedly were

shot because she/they admitted they believed in Jesus????

There was even a song written about this, a video, and lots of meetings with young people around the US more or less about being a martyr for Christ.

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