Kerry invokes Kennedy, Clinton

Concord Monitor and New Hampshire Patriot

HOPKINTON - With a single anecdote yesterday, presidential candidate John Kerry managed to remind voters of his local ties, his fondness for John F. Kennedy, his link to the civil rights movement, his service in Vietnam and his support for the environment.

"I was excited right over here, just down the street, by President Kennedy's campaign in 1960. The first speech I gave was in front of the school, at St. Paul's, on behalf of President Kennedy," Kerry said, recounting a student debate for a group of about 150 people crammed into the living room of Brad and Ann McLane Kuster in Contoocook. --

Appearing crisply pressed despite the oppressive humidity ("Welcome to the Kerry sauna," he said), the senator seemed at ease. He kept the crowd engaged with a steady diet of one- liners, along with the typical fare: heavy criticism of President Bush and his approach to the economy, the environment and foreign policy; celebration of his own health care proposal; and, at various times, a call for the return of "justice and fairness," "common sense" and "sensible leadership" to America.

Making multiple references to Kennedy, former president Bill Clinton and Republican Sen. John McCain, he responded to the surge of fellow candidate Howard Dean without naming the former Vermont governor but by touting his own electability. ---


Very Good Voter’s Guide

Among Kerry's cracks:

"Thank you for welcoming this poor refugee from the state to the south. Massachusetts, for those of you who don't know it, is a Wampanoag Indian name. Translated, it means 'land of many Kennedys.' "

"The only jobs that George Bush has created in the last 21/2 years are the nine of us running for president of the United States."

"The one person who deserves to be laid off is George Bush."

"I'll tell you, the people I'm meeting in Iowa and New Hampshire and across this country are just plain tired of being trickled on by George W. Bush."

"In Florida, a fellow came up to me and said, 'Tell me, what's it like to be running for the most powerful office in the land?' And I looked at him and said, 'I don't have a clue, because I'm not running for Secretary of the State of Florida.' "

damn it's good I didn't have anything in my mouth or I would have choked! Holy Shit! And you people really think he means: "get over it?"
Oh man!

nt/t

... with still a long time to go before the NH and IA caucauses(SP?) and primaries. I'm biased, but I still believe he is our strongest candidate to take on Bush and fill the Democratic power vacuum. I have nothing against Dean, and will happily vote for him should he get the nod, but I'm not yet convinced that he is the best man for the job.

I am a strong Dean supporter, but like you, I also like the other guy. That would be Kerry. If Dean fails, and Kerry wins, I will work for and be happy to support your man. Just wanted you to know that we all think about the same. I do think it will come down to Dean or Kerry. :toast:

and his war record.

There's a campaign video out that shows him in his Navy dress whites getting a medal (he earned a few) and the comparison to the Boy George is very obvious.

Keep talking, John!

any person who needs to associate himself witha another person to show his own greatness is not a leader. Sorry if I offend you guys, it's just what I think.

much to the dismay of many others.

How freakin' stupid and self-serving is that?

Edited spelling in subject line.

Explain me this, but why is he always voting against actions that were deemed necessary by the international community, like War against Iraq in 91 and Kosovo in 1999. And he is always strumpeting how he served during vietnam. 2.5-4 mill vietnamese died in that war. And you were fighting against them.

And his claim that Bush misled him proves that he is too gullible.

I thought he might be hungry and have a few stashed in his vest pocket.

Cher Ami delivered 12 important messages within the American sector at Verdun, France. On his last mission, Cher Ami, shot through the breast by enemy fire, managed to return to his loft. A message capsule was found dangling from the ligaments of one of his legs that had also been shattered by enemy fire. The message he carried was from Major Whittlesey's "Lost Battalion" of the 77th Infantry Division that had been isolated from other American forces. Just a few hours after the message was received, 194 survivors of the battalion were safe behind American lines.
Cher Ami was awarded the French "Croix de Guerre" with Palm for his heroic service between the forts of Verdun. He died in 1919 as a result of his battle wounds. Cher Ami was later inducted into the Racing Pigeon Hall of Fame in 1931 and received a gold medal from the Organized Bodies of American Racing Pigeon Fanciers in recognition of his extraordinary service during World War I.

Cher Ami is now in the posession of the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, DC, and will soon be on display at the National Museum of American History in the Armed Forces History Hall.
Pigeons performed other duties besides delivering important messages. Pigeons were even fitted with cameras that took pictures of enemy troops. This provided vital intelligence information.

Cher Ami was just one of many World War I carrier pigeons that were decorated for heroism in battle.

http://www.ris.net/~tony/pigeon.html

and Kerry knows all about "war heroes" too.

How does having fought in a senseless war and later rejected its premises qualify you for leadership? Doesn't it mean that you were either foolish then or not brave enough to resist? Now I know that there were plenty of people in the same boat then, and I am sure that Kerry's transformation, like those of thousands or other veterans, was genuine, but that doesn't confer any unique quality to your views. And don't you see a bit of a pattern here in Kerry's reaction to the Iraq mess? I guess I do not understand the idea that one needs to demonstrate one's mettle by killing people for no reason in support of irrational leaders and policies in order to show that you could be commander-in-chief and send other people off to participate in the same mindless right of passage.

My reference to "war heroes" only cites the fact that: 1 Kerry volunteered for service. 2. went to Vietnam, and 3. displayed courage and leadership there.

Kennedy's leadership convinced Kerry he should follow. Vietnam only seemed wrong after he got out, and it took years of retrospect. Kerry's criticism of Bush's handling of Iraq rests in the fact that "war" was not treated as an act of last resort, and that there was little to no diplomacy in dealing with Saddam. Kerry's vote "for war" was no more than a show of support for Bush to be a leader.

Bush failed, Kerry did not.

Although only Kerry can know for sure, it seems that he saw a situation where men were being called upon to protect the country and he volunteered out of patriotism. Once there he served admirably- above and beyond the call of duty, acting heroically. Once he returned and had been convinced of the futility and ill-concieved nature of the war, he workd to make sure that no one else was sacrificed to this bad idea.

Kerry has a great many positive attributes and positive legislative actions in his history. Unfortunately their are people who will take one or two votes and distort them out of context to try to bring the primary process to a Limbaugh-esque level. If all of the candidates were viewed on theri long histories of work and considered objectively- I think more would see Kerry in a better light.

Tell that to the 8000 or so who died in Iraq or the 2.5 million or so who were slaughtered in vietnam.

that Kerry is at least as qualified to lead us by virtue of his past deeds as the pigeon who started our colloquy. There is no doubt that this was a very brave pigeon who knew how to follow orders, though we not know if he was afflicted by self-doubt.

I don't want to get into a big debate about past history. But there are two things you might want to consider before you cut Kerry so much slack. One is the context of the vote to authorize Bush to wage war upon Iraq. This didn't happen in a vacuum. I guess you can count me as one of the angry Democrats, but, in my view, any Democrat who voted for the war was really abdicating responsibility. Kerry is not as culpable as Lieberman and Gephardt, but, he showed a lack of insight and leaderhip there. It was clear that Bush was determined to attack Iraq even then. And you were giving decisive power to a man you now say is totally out of step with American values and traditions and the captive of a group of dangerous right-wing fanatics. So really all these explanations don't wash, and it is evident that Kerry realizes this because he spends so much time trying to explain it.

The second thing you should consider is this, which was really the point of my first post. Yes, Kerry volunteered, went to Vietnam, and showed leadership and courage while there. Lots of guys from his class and background with political ambitions did the same thing. Gore comes to mind as an example, though he was not in combat. Why do we value this so much and think that this qualifies someone for leadership? You can make an equally convincing argument that the opposite is the case.

Name them... and, Gore is a HORRIBLE example, and he would be the first to tell you that. And Gore didn't protest the war afterward in any notable way.
I'll save you one from the other side: John McCain, however (and for obvious reasons) he didn't protest the war either.

My whole point of this debate is that attacking Kerry because he hunts (birds) is pretty lame.

The interview where Kerry talks about ripping the heart out of doves and riding his motorcycle and in general showing he is a macho guy is pretty lame. I find personally offensive and a bit troubling that this guy feels he needs to prove his toughness in some way.

If I wanted to be difficult about this whole issue, I might suggest that when Kerry volunteered, it was well past the point that the most progressive and politically courageous members of his generation had moved into opposition to the war and were resisting the draft, dodging the draft, demonstrating, and in general trying to reverse an appallingly destructive policy. Why do we always fall for this line that physical and personal courage are related to political courage? They are not.

I also really do resent the fact that Kerry wants to use the whole Vietnam record to be on both sides of the issue, which frankly troubles me about a lot of his stands.

You are mistaken. The full implications of the "war" were not known or understood at that time. And no matter, Kerry himself believed it was a legitimate fight against communism.

I did not say that the full implications of the war were known at the time (1966). I said that the most progressive people were advancing an anti-war agenda on campus. I lived through this era. There was significant questioning of the war at the time and significant expressions of student dissent, mostly then directed at military recruitment on campus. Lots of students were concerned with the draft. Obviously, things got a lot more exiting later, but not that much later (the first major demonstration in Washington occcured in the fall of 1967). It is by no means clear that Kerry believed at the time that the war was a legitimate fight against communism. Kerry was chosen to deliver the class oration when he graduated from Yale in 1966, and devoted a considerable portion to an analysis of the Vietnam War and a genuine criticism of the underlying policy assumptions. Then he promptly enlisted with a number of his fellow students shortly thereafter. So go figure why he did this when he had such misgivings. I must confess I am bothered by the strange parallel of his remarks and subsequent actions then and later on last fall when he voted for the war after giving a speech that in the main questioned its basis. This is one of the things that troubles me about Kerry. I will vote for him if he is nominated, but there are better choices.

I think this all comes down to having trust in your leaders to do what is right. And this is especially true as far as military service goes. John McCain's (as great a Bush hater as any) actions and comments during the Iraq resolution vote(s) shows that mindset well. Remember: Kerry IDOLIZED JFK, for better or worse.

BTW: I did not "live through that time" I was only 5 in 1966. The only thing I remember about Vietnam were the military funerals (21 gun salutes) in the cemetery behind my house, and the thundering of low flying B-52's shuttling in and out of nearby Westover AFB.

Though Kerry is okay.

I can't imagine Bobby voting for the Iraq war resolution, or for the military recruitment gimmick in "No Child Left Behind" law.

He wasn't "down" the street, he was actually "up" the street.

This guy can't be trusted!

Just wait for the Gore-like smears to start.