US tried to plant WMDs, failed: whistleblower

2 hours ago...

snip

According to a stunning report posted by a retired Navy Lt Commander and 28-year veteran of the Defense Department (DoD), the Bush administration’s assurance about finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was based on a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) plan to “plant” WMDs inside the country. Nelda Rogers, the Pentagon whistleblower, claims the plan failed when the secret mission was mistakenly taken out by “friendly fire”, the Environmentalists Against War report.

Nelda Rogers is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the DoD. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq. According to Al Martin Raw.com, “Ms Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.”

The information that is being leaked out is information “obtained while she was in Germany heading up the debriefing of returning service personnel, involved in intelligence work in Iraq for the DoD and/or the CIA. “According to Ms Rogers, there was a covert military operation that took place both preceding and during the hostilities in Iraq,” reports Al Martin Raw.com, an online subscriber-based news/analysis service which provides “Political, Economic and Financial Intelligence”.

Al Martin is a retired Lt Commander (US Navy), the author of a memoir called “The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran-Contra Insider,” and is considered one of America’s foremost experts on corporate and government fraud. Ms Rogers reports that this particular covert operation team was manned by former military personnel and “the unit was paid through the Department of Agriculture in order to hide it, which is also very commonplace”.

more...

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9

1) Is Al Martin credible??? I seem to recall thathe is not

2) Credible or not, we all KNEW this was going to be tried.

searching. yes we all knew this was going to be tried. This is the first I am hearing it was... It said the story came up 2 hours ago but actually here is another one from june so it may really not be LBN..

CIA and DOD Attempted To Plant WMD In Iraq

uploaded 26 Jun2003


A DOD whistleblower detail an attempt by a covert U.S. team to plant weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The team was later killed by friendly fire due to CIA incompetence.

Pentagon Whistleblower Reveals CIA/ DoD Fiascos


In a world exclusive, Al Martin Raw.com has published a news story about a Department of Defense whistleblower who has revealed that a US covert operations team had planted “Weapons of Mass Destruction” (WMDs) in Iraq – then “lost” them when the team was killed by so-called “friendly fire.”

The Pentagon whistleblower, Nelda Rogers, is a28 -year veteran debriefer for the Defense Department. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq.

According to Al Martin Raw.com, “Ms.Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.

The information that is being leaked out is information “obtained while she was in Germany heading up the debriefing of returning service personnel, involved in intelligence work in Iraq for the Department of Defense and/or the Central Intelligence Agency.

al martin is the source...

http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=7629&TagID=2

Al Martin is 100% NOT reliable, in my opinion. Before he started a pay per view for his column, I read it from time to time, and began to grow dubious about some of his claims. So I started looking up specific references to articles, TV shows and the like, using Lexis Nexus and other tools (in making the 9/11 Timeline I got quite good at finding stuff). I came to the conclusion he was completely making up many quotes and facts.

Stay away from this guy and his claims - he's very dangerous (and he admits to being former Office of Naval Intelligence - is his a deliberate disinfo campaign of confusing the truth with lies?). I agree with most of his political ideas, but you can't just make stuff up to support your arguments! If this whistleblower has anything worth saying at all, then hopefully someone more reputable than Al Martin will eventually verify it.

doubt may be dangerous as well.
So let us search out the evidence for both sides of the
table and we will see what side of the fence this story may lie.

It was months ago, and I'm not going to spend any more time debunking this bozo. One example I recall was a detailed mention of a new, disturbing TV commerical featuring John Ashcroft talking about homeland security. I thought for sure that if the commerical were true the way he described it, it would be news. I looked all over for evidence of such a commericial, using keywords, and found none. However, I did find a forum thread discussion of people discussing this Al Martin claim and people from all over the country were asking each other if anyone had seen the commericial. No one did. As one person put it, there seem to be TV channels that only Al Martin can get.

That's just one such example. There were a number of others. I found quite a few interesting quotes that I wanted to add to my 9/11 Timeline (www.complete911timeline.org) but nothing from his website ever panned out. Some of his comments were just absurd, like a claim that his sources had overheard Pres. Bush talking about his web site. Yeah, right.

he is the only source for this info... this was printed to day in the Pakistani paper, but it is based on another source (Al Martin) I found dating back to June 30, 2003... I placed that link in one of my posts. I did not bother to place any others because all the others were the same story from the June 30, 2003 article I placed.

we just need to keep an eye out, but this story does not appear to cross reference with any other source... I did not realize it when I posted it, because I have been expecting a plant might occur so the story seemed plausible to me.

I'm very much suspecting a plant as well. This David Kay figure is a prime planter if there ever was one. It's good you posted the link, but one nice thing about DU is that the many knowledgable people here can help separate the wheat from the chaff.

I don't feel bad I posted it... a plant is plausible.

Oh by the way thanks for your time line... I read it through back in February I guess there is much added to it huh? Probably I should read it again.

Here's the exact same story on indymedia:
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266752.shtml

Or just look for Nelda Rogers in Google
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Nelda+Rogers&meta=

So is this all just one big echo chamber bouncing the same "lies" around without fact checking? We need someone like trustable Salon to fact check this. My guess is it's bunk, but I'd laugh my head off if it pops up on CNN in few days!

Hmm, this girl gets around:
"Nelda Rogers also headed up the special debriefing unit, which debriefed NASA engineers and other personnel after the Columbia shuttle blew apart. They have tape recordings and other evidence, which indicates that NASA was well aware of the existing problems with the spacecraft – and yet they chose not to install sensors which would have detected the problem early and allowed countermeasures to be taken. It was evidently all not done for reasons of cost."
http://www.radioleft.com/article.php?op=Print&sid=1178

If you had a really exclusive story and were afraid military spooks would come kill you, would you really give this Al Martin guy an exclusive. I'd publish it on freenet. Tell all my friends and family so they could get my back. Then I'd hit some open but trusted sources.

I'm a teeny bit troubled by new truths for Pakistan.

The Daily Times is a relatively new publication, put out by very reputable and serious journalists. It has great coverage and very interesting columns.

I'd say at a minimum this deserves further investigation, regardless of the Al Martin origin.

:hi:

good to see you again.

especially on this thread :D

As for this story, it comes up in a few dozen responses from other sites, and all of them source back to Al Martin Raw.

This story makes sense.

if this story is picked up by a source outside of Pakistan.

n/t

the 55 troops who were ill after hauling something, were involved in a friendly fire incident, and thus were exposed to something that made them very sick.

It looks like this is it.

a credible source. I seems frequently the site is vilified as antisemitic... for this reason I tend to not access it... not that I do not have my criticisms of Israel I do... but it seems it is for the most part considered not to be credible.

what do you think... I have always wanted to ask someone who reads it about that... I know they feature much 9/11 coverage which disputes the official story...

As a news digest - collecting references to articles on sites around
the world - WRH is usually very good. Some of the commentary can get
a little too pointed and a little too repetitiously biased but, hey,
so can this place :-)

I use WRH quite a bit in addition to the BBC (single-source) as the
former will pull in bits from all manner of press/media sites and
I can always go off to the referenced site to pick up the "feel"
(estimate of bias, quality of reporting) for myself.

With regard to the "anti-semitic" claims: please remember that the
slightest hint of a critical comment towards Zionists, Israel, IDF,
"The Holocaust", etc., triggers the familiar "anti-semitic" whine.

Would definitely recommend WRH's 911 archive though - if only the
"average citizen" would check out more than Fox News to find out
what happens in the world ...

Nihil

I was just trying to get anothers thoughts on this. It is so easy to spot what you call pointed commentary from a collection of articles.

I agree on the antisemitic whining as well. So much perfectly viable information is vilified needlessly because the distinction is not made between articles that are standalone and what people might consider the slant of the site. Rense is another site that is vilified with regularity. In the meantime many times all Rense does is gather various articles from various places, and somebody has to keep their eye out when the mossad comes up in the news, don't you think? Why should one country be above reproach and scrutiny? The question is a rhetorical one.

I am familiar with their 9/11 timeline as well as Paul thompson's time line. All reputable 9/11 timelines are relevant. and I have read through them both. I tend on forums however to try not to use WRH or Rense for that matter as a link. I always try to find the original article, because quite frankly I am tired of the whine. Foxnews I never watch and I scoff regularly at CNN as well. The purpose they serve is we have to stay abreast of the spins as they are respun with regularity.

The definition of 'Antisemitism' includes those who dislike Sharon, Likud, and/or their current policies ...

One might wonder WHAT exactly is the nature of this alleged antisemitism .... based on what ? ....

can also stand in response to you. We can have quite a lengthy discussion regarding the politics of anti-semitism vs the existence of antisemitism. It does exist, however the polticis of anti-semitism has render the card itself virtually impotent.

I am looking... so far it seems it dates back ... as you can see by the other source I found... might be bull... or just being blacked out...

the Iran contra amplified stuff seems is rising up right now as in today... bunch a stories on that... some how this popped up in one of my searches... can not seem to find a US source for it. .. not yet anyway.

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/edit/index.php?op=view&itemid=331

Well, it's not covered by Reuters or the NY Times yet, but still . . .

A soldier that died of an aggressive "Pneumonia" was thought to have been contaminated by chemicals he was exposed to during this friendly fire incident. I thought it was odd that there had been no lead story about trying to plant WMD's.

At least Chimp and Saddam agree on this: NO UN weapons inspectors! Why risk getting caught with the goods?

about revealing something in September.

so we just keep our eyes open. This lead post aside, even if the pentagon was intent on planting WMD. truth is it would be almost miraculous if it did boil up and was reported as a lead story in mainstream and then repeated and repeated and followed meticulously. It is not going to happen, even if true.

another link
http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=7629&TagID=2

Portland indymedia has the same story.. I guess gulf times reissued it today...

no mainstream coverage... perhaps it should be moved to GD or Editorial.

I am happily excluding the wonderful gentlemen of the DU, of couse. A drug dealer told me once that drug dealers never trust women in their business. Maybe the question is 'why can't women keep their mouths shut when they are around bad people?'.

Why is it that so many of the whistleblowers turn out to be women? Why are too many good men so reluctant to speak up, even when they are witness to great wrongs?

Any former boy will tell you how violent their peers were/are. Boys are indoctrinated very early with the idea that surviving their own peers potential for abuse requires sublimating your conscience to 'go-along-get-along' complicity when the bullies pick their vulnerable targets at school. This is carried to adult behavior in the corporate and military environments. Kinda eggheady but too fucking true to deny.

so they do not bond actually or compete in friendly ways than women who are hardly a unified group either (actually they make showings of their dissent toward one another it seems to me)...

So male bonding is more like coercion. Interesting answer.

boy's club. Women, OTOH, have nothing to fear on that score.

Forget I mentioned it

evil...... :eyes:

or you are jumping to alot of conclusions with little factual data.

wanting approval from their fathers?

you've been trained in the Coulter-Gingrich blonde bimbo
repugnant school....Newt actually did have a training school
for the blonde bimbos who were talking heads all over the
cables you know. Didn't you know? think about it.

They may be females and look human, but, believe me, they're not women--as a matter of fact, I doubt if they're even human :evilgrin:

Unfortunately, if it's not on the whore channels it is never noticed by Mr. Mrs. America in Macomb County, Michigan.

This article's from June 19th.

By Al Martin (Al Martin Raw)



(June 16) The Department of Defense whistleblower continues with her information about the NASA Columbia Disaster Cover-up and more details on the Chandra Levy Murder Cover-up story.

Nelda Rogers also headed up the special debriefing unit, which debriefed NASA engineers and other personnel after the Columbia shuttle blew apart. They have tape recordings and other evidence, which indicates that NASA was well aware of the existing problems with the spacecraft – and yet they chose not to install sensors which would have detected the problem early and allowed countermeasures to be taken. It was evidently all not done for reasons of cost.

It’s very clear that the disaster was avoidable. In other words, NASA was aware of the problem and installing the sensor system would have detected the problem before it reached a critical stage.


http://www.radioleft.com/article.php?op=Print&sid=1178

On edit: This article also claims that Ms. Rogers knows about fingerprints found at the Chandra Levy murder scene that implicate an associate of Oliver North. I think we best keep our tinfoil hats on for this one, folks.

This lady must be involved in "Project Everything". Wonder if she'll tell us where Elvis has been, too?

i was all psyced but no details whatsoever :sgrug:

still interesting nonetheless.

peace

is not credible -- and this women has her finger in every pie... guess we just keep our eyes out on the story see if it blossoms over time.

Tweny eight years USN and only a Lt Commander. Very unusual.

180

:hi: haven't we had enough of that here or is everyone pmsing?

understand your response Mr/Ms. wonder. There is a question as to

whether or not "The woman" is credible.

IMHO and as a long time sailor I am suggesting the woman,

ONLY a Lt. Commander after twenty eight years of service,

is not credible for that reason. She likely would have been

retired out at twenty years due to inability to advance in grade.

Therfore I suggest she may not have been in the Navy at all

and that it is a phony story.

Nothing pmssing about it.

Ed

post all those kobe and sexist threads I was just joking... with you... or perhaps commenting on your comment jokingly because of the fiasco in those lengthy sexist threads... I did not take your comment to heart. Yes I agree, as many of the posters on the thread, the lead story seems questionable.

On rereading the article I can see it is not clear as to whether

she is the Lt. Commander or Martin is the Lt. Commander.

I will withdraw my comments!

Ed.

really I was just joking. I was not really insinuating anything. You are not on my neanderthal list:hi: I promise you. At least not yet anyway LOL -- i'm joking again.

Hmmmmm..........

Loosing it!!

Is this source credible at all?

that is what the concensus on this seems to be. It hasn't hit mainstream, though it hit this pakistani paper today, which some here in the thread seem to think is a credible paper, this same story was on the internet goine as far back as June 30, 2003 as far as I can tell, and since there has been nothing new added to it...

While is plausible (and seems others expect a plant would come), the story has not show up on american sites nor in the US mainstream... The original story is posted in one of my posts... Paul Thompson does not seem to think this Al Martin is credible... however, it is worth keeping an eye on it...

but further cross referencing is needed. at this time there is only one source on this story and as I said he is not considered credible.

and everywhere it appears sources back to Al Martin.

I read through the thread. I realize he is the only source. Thanks.

Al Martin's home page full of "shocking secrets" (he appears to really have it in for the Redstone arseonal).

He also gets a lot of airplay on conspiracyplanet.com.

Should set off warning bells for all thinking types.

I understand planting the WMD and what purpose that served. I understand looting millions of dollars etc. Who was the money supposed to go to? I think that would be a greatstory to read about. Anybody want to bet an offshore account for the RNC or BFEE?

These new Iraqi “asset seizures” go directly to the New US Ruling Junta. The US Viceroy in Iraq Paul Bremer is reportedly drinking Saddam’s $2000 a bottle Napoleon-era brandy, smoking his expensive Davidoff cigars and he has even furnished his office with Saddam’s Napoleon-era furniture.

They came out last week and said that what they thought were gold bricks was actually just brass metal bars. It was here in the DU where I saw the thread. Bremmer may be getting the cash, but the gold is where my attention is focused. I did not keep the link to the story about the gold bullion being declared shiny bricks of brass. The story said that the people who had it tested felt it was a supply to melt for artillery and ammunition if I remember right.

They just walked off with all that gold.

Well im sure its gonna be the at first you dont suceed gameplan with the Bush Admin..I was thinking that they will be planting like crazy before the next election..With the paidoff press asleep at the wheel im sure they will be planting or fabricateing alot of stuff before Nov 4 2004..You have to wonder why a GOP statagy is to bowbeat anyone who brings it up with the "dont make it an issue" play

She also was involved in the debriefing of the Columbia crash.

Uh I am not saying that this is true but frankly bringing this into a conversation with 90% of the people will undermine anything else you say.

It wouldn't surprise me and I doubt this will see the light of day anywhere near the mainstream press.

Or, I wonder if there are fascist and non-fascist elements within the armed services who are at odds.

I just don't by the notion that it was an accident that prevented this from happening.

(Presuming it were true...which it probably isn't, huh?)

Here's the exact same story on indymedia:
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266752.shtml

Or just look for Nelda Rogers in Google
http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Nelda+Rogers&meta=

So is this all just one big echo chamber bouncing the same "lies" around without fact checking? We need someone like trustable Salon to fact check this. My guess is it's bunk, but I'd laugh my head off if it pops up on CNN in few days!

Hmm, this girl gets around:
"Nelda Rogers also headed up the special debriefing unit, which debriefed NASA engineers and other personnel after the Columbia shuttle blew apart. They have tape recordings and other evidence, which indicates that NASA was well aware of the existing problems with the spacecraft – and yet they chose not to install sensors which would have detected the problem early and allowed countermeasures to be taken. It was evidently all not done for reasons of cost."
http://www.radioleft.com/article.php?op=Print&sid=1178

sorry posted in the wrong spot.

I posted this yesterday in GD citing the new enviromentalist link and others and it dropped like a rock...

look at all the posts now...

:shrug:

I would like to know more about the CIA role in the war on Iraq. We know--because it was reported, even flaunted--that CIA special ops teams carried out a lot (most?) of the ground action in Afganistan. They were the ones who identified targets for bombing, apparently. Does it seem likely that they would have no role in Iraq? There have been reports of CIA operatives identifying targets (like the house in Baghdad where Saddam and sons were reportedly meeting--and Bush* himself apparently OKed the unsuccessful "decapitation" strike), but it seems likely that many of these operatives are Iraqi informants/spies, not special-ops or dirty-tricks CIA career people.

If it weren't for their BIG role in Afganistan, I might not have noticed the absence of information about their role in Iraq. The stories about trying to turn the Iraqi army against Saddam might point to them, though.

I know that the CIA keeps a generally low profile, but do their activities get overseen by the Congressional intelligence committees, at least? And if there WERE rogue operations (to plant WMD, to loot, to create chaos/anarchy), it seems likely that they would not be reported even to Congress. ALSO, it's easy to forget that there are other intelligence agencies out there, several in the Pentagon (which is controlled by Iran-Contra alumni). My hunch is that a lot of the INC Iraqi exiles were recruited to do things we'll never know about unless the whole Bush* admin blows apart.

ALL of this post is idle speculation--I too am waiting for more info to surface. I wish Nelda Rodgers would go to a mainstream journalist with her info--it seems to me that that would be safer for her as well. Or why not go to the VIPS organization for support and help getting her story out? Maybe Will Pitt could ask Ray McGovern for his take on this story? If it's true, it's REALLY important. If it's not, best to debunk it asap.

Was there anyone here who wasn't expecting this?

I remember when this first came out in June, there was no other source to be found, and there still isn't.

While I have no trouble believing that this story (or something very like it) *could* be true, without other source verification it's virtually useless. We have no way of knowing if such a person as "Nelda Rogers" even exists.

One of my biggest problems with this story from the very beginning is this: Why would a REAL whistleblower, with this HUGE of a breakthrough story to tell, allow her name to be used? I mean, wouldn't she have good reason to fear for her life?

Furthermore, if a real person wanted to blow Bushco's cover, why in the world would she/he chose a known whackjob like Al Martin to get the message out?

There's simply no logic to this. While it's not hard at all to believe that there was/is/will be plans for planting WMDs in Iraq, and as much as we might HOPE a whistleblower could/would come forward, I have zero trust that this particular bit of wish-fulfillment is genuine in any way.

Imho, Al Martin gives us dedicated conspiracy theorists -- those of us who base our theories on solid, painstaking research of VERIFIABLE FACTS -- a bad name. :grr:

sw

It is reassuring to see that Al Martin is regarded with such healthy skepticism. Yet, I must wonder, if a spokesman for the Bush* administration came to the podium and claimed to have found a cache of said WMDs, would they be so well ignored?

Nope.

It would be plastered all over our national yellow press: "Bush Finds Smoking Gun: Saddam's Secret Doomsday Project" or some such.

The important question is not whether Al Martin is a reliable source, it's whether anyone in the current bureaucracy can be regarded as reliable. AND NO ONE IN THE PRESS IS ASKING THAT QUESTION.

Which begs the second important question: Who in the press could be trusted to carry such a story?

IF we are forced to regard all or even most of our mass media as hopelessly bought-out, then the reliability of any particular conspiracy theorist is a tertiary issue at best. Faced with the ultimate scenario in journalistic source relativism, here we are splitting hairs over the smallest wigs while CNN-AOL-Time-Warner can't be trusted any more than Al Martin.

Let's suppose Al Martin is full of shit. OK, I can certainly live with that. But where, WHERE, praytell, is the investigative reporting that asks the question so many of us here see as valid? Who in the world will verify that any WMD finds are real, and not as fabricated as oxidized uranium sales in Niger?

No one.

That's why it's long been my contention that the Bushies DON'T NEED TO PLANT WMDs, all they have to do is say they've found said weapons and can't reveal the details for intelligence purposes. That would be enough for CNN-AOL-Time-Warner, FOX-Newscorp, and MS-NBC to declare the matter closed.