Virginia To Try 26 For Sodomy Despite Supreme Court

http://www.365gay.com/NewsContent/081903vaSodomy.htm

26 men arrested for having sex in a Harrisonburg, Virginia adult bookstore will be tried on sodomy charges despite a US Supreme Court ruling in June striking down the laws.

The men were indicted July 21, about a month after the Supreme Court ruling. Police said the arrests followed a three-month investigation into goings on at the bookstore.

Through a spokesperson Virginia Attorney General Jerry W. Kilgore said the court ruling only applies to sex acts in private. Kilgore believes the Supreme Court decision does not preclude prosecutions for public sodomy or solicitation to commit sodomy.


Guess what Virginia Republican has already started his campaign for governor?

why why why must I share the planet and air with such morons?

And why the word "Sodomy"? It's so antiquated. Why not just call it what it is---S-E-X???

But then again, "sodomy" is a code word for "yucky gross gay man butt loving sex" or whatever the right-wing "Christian Coalition" calls consentual adults having sexual intercourse.......

this saddens and sickens me at the same time.

gay or straight. That's why we say, "get a room".

No.

Because SODOMY is 'code word" for Gay Man Sex (even though heterosexual couples, as well as lesbians, can particake in activities that include sodomy)

And of course sex in public is against the law for all parties & sexual orientations, but I wonder if they're making such a BIG DEAL about heterosexual sex in public as well?

The fact that they're bringing up the fact that the USSC's ruling was between individuals in their homes and not in public, to me, signifies that they are TARGETING public gay sex SOLELY because it's gay sex, and not because it's public sex.

I wonder how many stings they have going on at massage parlors and lingere shows and bachelor/ette parties and so-on. (sites that are predominately attended by heterosexual males where sex with females often takes place, and often in a 'public' setting)

My feeling is not as many as they have at sites that are predominately attended by homosexual men....

... the straight couple is told to 'button-up-and-move-on' and the gay couple is arrested.

Truly pathetic. The hypocrisy is just staggering. Simply staggering!

-- Allen

honestly.

No before no after and no.....beast with two backs. None of it, it is all still illegal.

N/T

I've heard of cases where communities have gone up in arms because there was a heterosexual "free sex" ring operating in a residential neighborhood. Putting aside zoning issues, you also have public health problems to deal with. The Lawrence v. Texas case, if you read it, was concerned about gay individuals having the same rights as hetereosexuals to develop intimate relationships in the privacy of their home.

So, if the authorities are shutting down hetereosexual free sex rings, then the same kind of group activity should be discouraged in homosexuals. Frankly, after reading "And the band played on," I think bathhouses should be shut down. But maybe that's just me.

then why use the term "SODOMY", and why make the statement that Lawrence v. Texas only applied to private residences or whatever??

The fact is, there are numerous places where heterosexual men can get 'serviced' by women---i.e. Escort services, masage parlors, 'bachelor parties' etc.

My feeling this was a sting NOT to arrest people engaging in sex in a public place, but to arrest people engaging in HOMOSEXUAL SEX in a public place.

And the bookstore is also an adult bookstore. While it is 'public' meaning that it's open to the public, it does have an age restriction. Also, the people weren't screwing in the aisles, they were in a back room.

In SC, there were numerous porn stores with 'peep-show booths' which were nothing but sex booths. I knew that, and my husband knew that, yet we still visited the establishments for their fine selection of, ahem, novelties.

Generally speaking, if you go to an adult bookstore, you generally know that there is a high chance that the 'private video' rooms in the back are for anonymous sex--for BOTH hetero and homosexuals.

I'm not sure how being in a room outside of the 'main' store area can be considered "public sex", considering the rooms generally have doors, and you must be 'buzzed' in by the guy standing in the front. They're basically like little tiny hotel rooms in the back of the business.

That's not public sex.

Public sex is screwing in the bushes, in the car, on the sidewalk, etc.

We're the home of the "No more fun of any kind!" laws.

The call it sodomy because that's what the statute defines it as. And yes, they regularly arrest heterosexual couples for public sex crimes here. Not that long ago, we had a hetero couple get busted for oral sex while driving on Interstate 64. They got major smackies.

BTW, it's a rare week indeed when I don't commit what Virginia defines as a sex-related felony with my wife. The trick is not to get caught. To quote the Bard: "GET A ROOM!!!"

Am I wrong or was that sodomy between two consenting hetereosexual depicted on the show last night? Gives new meaning to the title, "Nip & Tuck"

I wonder how many stings they have going on at massage parlors and lingere shows and bachelor/ette parties and so-on. (sites that are predominately attended by heterosexual males where sex with females often takes place, and often in a 'public' setting)

In some counties of Virginia the person giving the massage must be of the same gender as the person receiving the massage. I wonder how that law applies if one or both of the participants is gay?

If it's oral between heterosexuals, it's sodomy. If it's kinky sex between heterosexuals, it's sodomy. If it's missionary position regular sex between unmarried heterosexual partners, it's fornication. If it's missionary position sex between married heterosexual partners, it's indecent exposure, and possibly other things depending on who saw it. If it's actual intercourse between men or a man and an animal, it's "buggery". Yes, in VA, "buggery" is an actual legal term.

In other words, lots of States prosecute people for "sodomy" even though it isn't what we'd really consider to be sodomy.

Sodomy has a very broad legal definition in most states.

not sodomy..

7/02/2003

"Virginia Attorney General Jerry W. Kilgore said yesterday he will appeal a federal judge's decision to block enforcement of a new state law banning a rarely performed abortion procedure.

"Mr. Kilgore, a Republican, said he will ask U.S. District Court Judge Richard L. Williams to suspend his order not to enforce the law pending an appeal to the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. Mr. Kilgore said the motion "will be filed as soon as possible."

http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20030702-094308-3869r.htm


what a guy -- hope he goes down (so to speak) big time



nothing like having Dem Gov and Lt Gov and a ratwingneoconfascist in the Atty General position


from his bio:

Jerry Kilgore believes that government should serve the people. As Attorney General, he believes that government should help keep Virginians safe from violent predators, combat terrorism, keep drugs away from our children and protect our citizens – especially seniors –from fraud and abuse. Kilgore also believes government should be open and accessible as it protects the environment and ensures safe schools so our children can learn. Kilgore wants to make sure government is not an impediment to good jobs and economic growth by supporting lower taxes and reasonable regulations.

Kilgore was elected Virginia's 42nd Attorney General on November 6, 2001, receiving more than 60% of the vote. Prior to his election as Attorney General, Kilgore served in the Cabinet of former Governor George Allen. Governor Allen appointed Kilgore as Secretary of Public Safety in January 1994. As Secretary, Kilgore managed 11 State agencies, including the Virginia State Police, the Department of Corrections, the Department of Juvenile Justice, more than 17,000 employees and a one billion-dollar budget.

Kilgore led the nationally recognized criminal justice reform efforts for Governor Allen. He successfully implemented the abolition of parole and was Vice Chairman of the Commission on Juvenile Justice Reform, which overhauled the juvenile justice system. In fact, violent crime decreased 12% during his tenure as Secretary and Virginia's correctional system was recognized as a model for the nation by the news media. Kilgore also played an active role in Virginia's welfare reform, which requires able-bodied welfare recipients to work for their benefits.

Jerry Kilgore has also served on the front lines of law enforcement as both a State and Federal prosecutor. During the end of the Reagan Administration and through the Bush Administration, he served as an Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Virginia. While an Assistant U.S. Attorney, Kilgore concentrated on prosecutions brought from five regional drug task forces. Kilgore developed a reputation as an effective courtroom prosecutor, successfully prosecuting hundreds of drug dealers. As an Assistant Commonwealth's Attorney for Scott County, Kilgore prosecuted a variety of criminal cases.

Kilgore received his law degree from the Marshall-Wythe School of Law at the College of William & Mary in 1986 and is a graduate of University of Virginia's College at Wise (formerly Clinch Valley College of the University of Virginia).

http://www.oag.state.va.us/About%20Us/bio.htm

How does one appeal to a federal judge? Fish-net stockings? Rubber-latex nurse's uniform?

Geeez...these republicans are just sick....

At least that is what I have heard recently. He is setting up a run in 2005 (we are a year off) against Tim Kane for Governor.

You see Mr.Kilgore have a VERY sweet southern accent that apparently might scare off the more conservative voters. He sounds like someone doing a bad "gay impression".

I read them whenever I see them. I even bookmark them and come back to see who else may have responded.

Like today, I will come back to see if there are any Freeper Sympathizers. You know the "sex in a bookstore should be illegal." As if a "bookstore" is a "bookstore" (not that I know the difference from experience). Thanks again.

He's going to try 26 guys? Well...I've heard of "try before you buy", but this is a bit extreme. I guess when he heard the SCrOTUS declare that sodomy was okay, he had to try it himself.

I'm all for people doing their own thing, but Mr. Kilgore's avowal of an extremely promiscious lifestyle, I find a bit repugnant. I just hope he uses the proper protection so he doesn't pass anything to any of his other sexual partners.

<damn typos>

and icky sex is the #1 priority :eyes:

I don't get it. Could you see them having sex thru the front window,
or what?

Undercover officers were trolling in the booth area. Kind of like a 'setup'. These guys were targets, make no mistake about it. Just another Repuke trying to push the envelope on the law.

This is ridiculous but not really surprising for Va.

If it's in a public area, then Lawrence v. Texas may not have as much bearing on the case. Lawrence was about two consenting adults in the privacy of a home. This Virginia case sounds like something totally different.

there was no difference made between public and private

they could charge them with public indecency or something like that but I'm sure that the sodomy charges carry more jail time and/or fines

it's just another example of a Republican pandering to the right wingers


ON EDIT--Virginia's law banning sodomy has only one part--a blanket prohibition of oral and anal sex--with no distinction between those acts occurring in public or in private.

If it's a place of business that has an open invitation to the public, then it has public access and will not be given the same constitutional protections as you'd find in the privacy of a home.

However, Lawrence v. Texas makes it very clear that Virginia can not apply sodomy laws to activities performed inside the privacy of one's home.

If the only charge is "sodomy" and there are no elements of the crime requiring the act to be in a public place, I think the recent Supreme Court decision will prevent prosecution. It might not get thrown out until on appeal though. I agree that this is just republican pandering to the Reich Wing.

This could provide an opportunity to publicize the definition of "Santorum" found at the following link. WARNING VERY GRAPHIC.
http://www.thestranger.com/2003-06-12/savage.html

The law itself is unconstitutional, so you can't convict someone under that law. But that's the whole point, of course: the prosector wants to make a political statement. I say we don't give him the attention he evidently craves.

Wasn't Texas's law geared explicitly towards homosexuals only? Virginia's ban is for ALL kinds of anal and oral sex, regardless of orientation.

Most states are on an early release program now, to save money, especially for drug dealers and other non-violent types.

we are recovering from financial woes.

I am hoping Mark Warner will wipe out Smirky George Allen when that butt kissing little neo-clone Senator comes up for reelection in 2006. That would give us a Senator Warner on both sides of the aisle.

(Our other Warner is an ex-husband of Elizabeth Taylor.)

I have to wonder about the prosecutor-does he like being overturned by the supreme court? Does he figure that by the time any appeal gets there, two of the judges that voted against Texas will be retired and replaced with scalia/thomas clones? Or is he up for re-election in a red-neck county?

but Kilgore may get away with this.

There's "private," and there's "private." This is akin to the bathhouse and leather bar scene known well to many city dwellers. They were even harassed at times in NYC when things got a little out of hand, and some of the places got closed down. The Ansonia Baths threw them out and turned into Plato's, much to the delight of many of us straights who were jealous of the gay action.

Parts less hospital to that sort of free-range sex close 'em down regularly under public nuisance and other ordinances. Even straight swing clubs get the treatment. Plato's got too big and too popular, and got squeezed out of business years ago. LA busted them on a regular basis and scared the customers away. Let's keep this stuff in the shadows, shall we... Find your swing clubs and cruise strips the old fashioned way and don't let Aunt Esther know about it.

I'll pass on the debate over hassling the bathhouse and group-grope scene on public health or "local standards" grounds, as there is something to be said for both sides. But, arresting them for "sodomy" is despicable and simply pandering to the anti-gay vote.

Blair, Powell...

it reflects the level of education in Virginia....they don't understand much of anything...including history, biology, science, social studies, psychology, politics or the general idea that the Pentagon attack happened in Virginia and there are OTHER things for police to do than snooping around in adult stores...

the money for these trials could be better spent on REAL law enforcement issues here in Virginia...murders, rapes, breaking and entry, spy's, cross-burnings, hate crimes....there's plenty of REAL law enforcement issues here, but is seems that "Kilgore" would rather dally around discussing sex in the court rooms at taxpayers expense, while police are encouraged to snoop around all the adult entertainment places they can find...either that or hang around in coffee shops...typical waste of taxpayers money....

You've got to start slowly and build up...Honestly, if I've told that girl once I've told her a hundred times.

:evilgrin:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Seriously though, if this is being used as a way of persecuting homosexuals then it should be addressed immediately. If it's a case of genuine complaints about sexual behaviour in public then fair enough, provided it's applied without prejudice.

P.

used to be on all the license plates...seems like 26 is getting a little out of control though....but, we still like lovers here in Virginia....

http://www.virginia.org/home.asp?Try=Yes

Wonder if this is the same Virginia judge that took a child away from her mother because the mother was gay and therefore, in the judge's opinion, was an unfit mother, and gave custody instead to the father, who was a convicted murderer.

control most of Virginia.

Or just "public sex acts", not sodomy!
Those jerks just gotta have it their way, don't they? Get them fags at all costs!
Being gay myself, I find this preoccupation with the word sodomy to be an obvious political provocation.
:kick:

Look, these men were on private porperty and (i assuming) since it wasn't mentioned there were no children present and everyone involved was consenting. How is this a crime?

These poeple were not out on the street, they had no intention or even fear of exposing themselves to anyone who didn't want to be there.

In genereal from the Kink Community, public sex is just that...in public...in secret, in hiding but in plain view of others. I'm not a big fan of this sort of behavior it violates the Safe, Sane Consensual mantra of the kink community. Anyone that would have to see that is a non-consensual participant and therefore would definatley have a grievance.

These poeple did not expose themsleves to others, they were not having sex with children, everything they did was consensual and behind closed if not locked doors.

Why do we care? Why does the government care? What's next, raids on nude beaches? Police breaking down the doors of private swingers parties? The Riech Wing invading adult book stores?

The government has no right to invade anothers privacy. Aside from the academic excersize of what laws may or may not have been broken I ask why is this wrong? Why is this illegal? Why here, a liberal and progrssive measage board would anyone even question the ligitamacy of the Governments charges?

A Kinky Dem

Per the article Sodomy is a felony but without the sodomy all they could go for would be misdemeanors.

"Kent Willis, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, told the Roanoke Times, "Our interpretation is that any charges under the sodomy law are invalid at this point." Other misdemeanor charges were available to the police, he said, including lewd and lascivious cohabitation, obscene exhibitions and indecent exposure."