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Army Cannot Keep Up With Demand for Vehicle Replacement Parts in Iraq

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:15 PM
Original message
Army Cannot Keep Up With Demand for Vehicle Replacement Parts in Iraq
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAZ9U7GOJD.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Army overcame enormous logistics obstacles in the successful march to Baghdad last spring, but sustaining the force has become a problem, a senior Army general said Friday.


Gen. Paul Kern, chief of the Army Materiel Command, cited as an example the Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, which he said has sustained so much wear and tear in Iraq that the Army is months' short of replacements for the steel tracks on which they travel.

Kern said the Army also is in short supply of replacement tracks for Abrams tanks, Paladin howitzers and other vehicles. snip

"We haven't closed down Afghanistan, we've still got people operating in the Balkans, and I've got my eye on Korea," he said. "So we can't take all the resources of the U.S. Army and send them all to Iraq."

Asked whether U.S. officials had anticipated at the outset of the Iraq war that the postwar stabilization phase would last so long and require so many troops, Kern said, "Some did. Some didn't."

He acknowledged that the military underestimated what it would take to sustain the force in Iraq.

more

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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. "I've got my eye on Korea"?
Get ready for a draft. Who's going?
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. eye on Koria got to me too

I've read that they will draft but in a different way and not call it a draft -- by saying, because of terrorists, everyone turning eighteen has to do X yrs. of military. (like Israel)
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Conscription?
Jesus, this fucking administration makes me want to shit in my pants. Ugh.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. Old military proverb
"Good generals study tactics. Great generals study logistics."

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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. True, and a quagmire is still a quagmire
Although he was never a general, Robert McNamara (Secretary of Defense under Kennedy and Johnson) was a logistics whiz during WW2 but that didn't seem to help him with his debacle in Vietnam.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. Ooo, that's a good one.
Here's another one: Good and great generals can be thoroughly undone by lousy, sociopathic Secretaries of Defense.

Eloriel
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OldCurmudgeon Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. and moron chickenhawks
...study their belly-button lint
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fizzana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Isn;t some of this Halliburton's responsibility.
n/t
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LibInternationalist Donating Member (861 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yes, I think it is
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Turley Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
26. Not really
Brown & Root does all that quality of life stuff. Crappers, Tents, Laundrey, Chow, that sort of thing. Motorpools are still run by NCOs unless there's something I haven't heard about.
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fizzana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. I predicted problems if the US invaded Iraq but I never imagined
that incompetence and stupidity would be this pervasive. Is there anything they do right?
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Nothing.
Name one good thing that has happened since the chief derelict took office.
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. For me nothing but if I were a gazzilionaire
I'd be very happy with the moron*. It sounds like we are going to run short of everything. Material breaking down and getting blown up, morale breaking down and getting blown up. I wonder how many humvees and bradleys have been disabled in the attacks we don't hear about.
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. From my sources...
...that Russian site that was talking about dozens of diabled vehicles during the push to Baghdad was absolutely correct.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I remember reading that after the first week of the war in Afghanistan
...they had to replace nearly the entire contingent of helicopters they had there, since all of them were damaged, most beyond repair.

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fizzana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. You'd think that they could at least do "war" with some degree
of competence.

Remember in they early days when we were assured that everything would be done right because they were the "CEO" administration.

What few realized was that they were modelling themselves on the CEOs of Enron, Worldcom, Tyce etc.
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. This administration...
...has been fucking the shit up since "Go".

From crashed surveillance planes in China to lying about an Iraqi invasion, they have been one giant clusterassfuck.
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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. The Bushies and Neocons are incapable of doing anything right
Edited on Fri Aug-22-03 01:09 PM by khephra
Because they don't live in the same reality as the rest of us.

They're doubly blinded by their ideology and reliance on Yes Men, which is then further supported by a "Bush loyalty" system that punishes independent thought and the truth.

These folk are still going to be saying that going into Iraq was the right thing to do years from now, even after it's clear to 99% of the population that Iraq was as big of a mistake as Vietnam. They're simply that blind.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Ah, fizzana. You are learning, grasshopper.

Some of us like to call them "The Gang that Can't Think Straight".

It really is amazing that a bunch of well read intellectuals just have no real world smarts. Must have been brought up in their ivory towers.

I just hope they have a chance to learn from the people, like Bubba, their future cellmate.
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RobertSeattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hmmmm
I'll strip parts off a Yuppie HMMWV owner over the weekend and send to Iraq on Monday. It's my patriotic duty.


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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Jerry Falwell owns a Hummer
It's your duty to get parts from Jerry, he doesn't care.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. Most people don't know that Eisenhower never directly commanded
troops in combat, but Eisenhower was the greatest military logistician this country has ever produced and perhaps the greatest in history.

"The most brilliant operational strategies or the most elegant operational tactics are mere dreams without the resources needed to transform them into reality." (“Logistics: DOD’s Achilles Heel?” from The Bureaucrat, Spring 1982,
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Jody, a question, if I may?

I thought Ike was a line officer in WWI. Was I mistaken?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Sorry, Ike never left the US in WWI


QUOTE
In 1917, shortly after the U.S. entered World War I, Eisenhower was promoted to captain. He wanted desperately to go to France to lead men in battle, but he was such an outstanding instructor and trainer of men that the Army kept him in the United States. In March 1918 he took command of Camp Colt, a tank training center at Gettysburg, Pa. There he spent the rest of the war, learning a great deal about armored warfare and about turning civilians into soldiers, earning a Distinguished Service Medal for his services, but getting no promotions or combat experience. He was promoted to major in 1920 and in the next year graduated from the Tank School at Camp Meade, Md. But outward signs of progress hid inner drift. He had little interest in his profession, spent most of his time coaching football teams on Army posts, and could not see much of a future for himself.
UNQUOTE
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. MacArthur: Ike was the best damned staff officer I ever had.
Generals Douglas MacArthur and Dwight D.
Eisenhower. -- Contrasts in Leadership

by

Colonel John Osgood, Retired (c) 1998

Both Eisenhower and MacArthur achieved unprecedented success as strategic leaders, even though their temperaments, styles, and backgrounds were dramatically different. MacArthur, first in his class at West Point, was an ardent student of military history. He was a decorated World War I combat veteran with a reputation for being courageous under fire (Manchester discounts the "Dugout Doug" disparagement as fictional). At the start of World War II, he was a recognized expert on the politics and geography of the Far East (Clausewitz's "sense of locality"). As to his personality, Manchester refers to him as a "... great thundering paradox of a man, nobel and ignoble, inspiring and outrageous, arrogant and shy." He was a man who could be extremely paranoid and distrustful even of his own staff. Yet Manchester says he craved attention and "... appeared to need enemies the way other men need friends." His penchant for defiance and obstinacy are well known, dating to his disobedience of Roosevelt's orders during the veterans' riots in Washington, D.C., and culminating in his relief from command in Korea. He demanded excessive loyalty from subordinates and did not necessarily pick the most capable officers for key subordinate positions.

<snip>

Eisenhower was, by all accounts, an affable, easy going, quiet individual with a strong staff background who, according to Larrabee, purposely tried to conceal his "icy" intelligence. He spent most of his early career as a staff officer, although he often actively sought command. He and Patton were early proponents of armor and he displayed remarkable foresight in terms of its potential on a mobile battlefield. Roosevelt and Marshall recognized his unique talents as a staff coordinator and planner and began immediately to groom him for ultimate command in the European theater.

Both Generals were inspired leaders with extraordinary vision. MacArthur's support for an island hopping campaign, his resistance to the invasion of Formosa and his insistence on the retaking of the Philippines were key factors in the successful campaign against Japan and resulted in significantly reduced casualties, according to Manchester. Eisenhower's biggest challenge in Europe was maintaining command independence in the face of strong opposition and, at times, hostility by Montgomery to his policies and right to command. His planning and execution of Overlord, his refusal to yield to the British urging for the "single thrust" attack on the continent, and his ability to make the coalition of allied forces work in harmony were among his greatest achievements. Larrabee quotes Roosevelt who purportedly said: "He is the best politician among military men. He is a natural leader who can convince other men to follow him..."

http://pw1.netcom.com/~jrosgood/wc2.htm
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Eisenhower's ability as a logistician is overlooked by most people
who do not have broad experience in the various special areas of logistics. "Military logistics" is vastly different from "civilian logistics" and the typical logistics course students take in a b-school does not properly define "military logistics.

The JCS definition is "logistics: (DOD) The science of planning and carrying out the movement and maintenance of forces. In its most comprehensive sense, those aspects of military operations that deal with: a. design and development, acquisition, storage, movement, distribution, maintenance, evacuation, and disposition of materiel; b. movement, evacuation, and hospitalization of personnel; c. acquisition or construction, maintenance, operation, and disposition of facilities; and d. acquisition or furnishing of services."

Each military service has different requirements although in general they are similiar and for some subsets of logistic problems, they are equivalent. The following periodicals are excellent for professional military logisticians and the articles illustrate the different problem areas in each service.

Air Force Journal of Logistics

Army Logistician

Naval Research Logistics

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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. This is what happens when the politicians focus on the big money
programs (apc's, tanks, artillery, figher jets, etc.)while leaving people and spare parts to suffer.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why should they be short of vehicle parts in Iraq?
They're lying around all over the place: under overpasses, around scorched spots on roads, under collapsed buildings. All they need to do is hire a bunch of Iraqis as parts collectors and send them out to areas where U.S. vehicles have been targeted.

Hey, that approach would fit with Rummy's low-cost warmaking plans.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. Are these parts shortages a ploy to support privitization of
military supply? Don't be surprised if Rumfilled proposes to let Wal Mart replace the military's logistics system.

That makes perfect sense to the AWOL crowd because supplying "toilet paper and sanaitary napkins" is no different than "supplying line replacement units and time change components for weapon systems".
:puke: on AWOL & Friends


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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. No, these parts shortages...
...are a result of privatization.

In fact, in aviation the US military has already started outsourcing the actual mechanics, not just the parts.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Many of these parts have to be imported anyway.
We exported our steel and tool and die industries decades ago. Under Reagan, I think. Wasn't he a great president?
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-22-03 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. Time to start digging up more rose bushes
After all, if you can find perfectly preserved parts to build a nuclear reactor/centrifuge under them, I bet there are plenty of vehicle parts under there too.

*sarcasm*
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hadrons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
32. military underestimated what it would take to sustain the force in Iraq
hmmm, no they didn't; Dumbya didn't want to hear this and anyone in the military who told the truth was pushed out
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lindashaw Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-03 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. Exactly! And he fired...
Larry Lindsay who said that the war would cost...what, 100million? Hey, now that looks like chickenfeed.
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