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"Straighten Up and Fly Normal...Or Else - Shooting the Mentally Ill"

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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:53 PM
Original message
"Straighten Up and Fly Normal...Or Else - Shooting the Mentally Ill"
the best commentary on this issue yet- :

The air marshals claim that Alpizar was acting aggressively even when he boarded.

If so, why was he allowed to board and not just escorted away immediately?

They say he might have blown up the plane.

If so, why did he run out of it?

They say he intended to blow up the terminal.

If so, why did he board?

And why was he shot 4-6 times?


A police bomb squad unit with dogs sniffed through all baggage.

They found no bomb.



http://www.counterpunch.org/rajiva12092005.html
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. The question no one wants to ask....
If Alpizar had a bomb in his bag, why was it let through "security" screening?
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So an air marshal is supposed to assume that no one has a bomb..
after they get through security? Such an assumption would be piss-poor training on the Air Marshal program's part.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. no, an air marshal is supposed to
use their heads, and training when a situation requires it-
Please read the Counterpunch article- it's about alot more than what the air marshal should or shouldn't have done-

Common sense, and keeping a rational head in the midst of chaos is something i DO expect from those armed and supported by those 'in control' of this .....'nation'?

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Do marshals check passenger lists before boarding?
Is there coordination between the AMS and airline staff?

Alpizar had just cleared US Customs, and then AA screeners.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. i don't fly- and don't intend to-
even if i could afford it- but how many folks have been detained because their name matched a name on a 'do not fly' list?
How many folks have been stopped for 'looking suspicious'??? either lots of folks are misrepresenting what a hassle flying, (particularly out of country) has become, or the system is simply a ruse, and a failure-
"Homeland Security" clearly failed everyone connected with this flight- from the dead man to those who will live with his blood on their hands-
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. If He HAD a Bomb, Wouldn't SHOOTING Him be Likely to Set it Off?
Real suicide bombers usually have the explosives attached to their bodies.

If he really had a bomb, and one of those bullets had hit it,
the bomb probably would have exploded -- precisely the outcome that
sky marshals should have been been trying to prevent.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. i would have thought so, but
it goes way beyond that- i probably didn't cite the most appropriate sections from this well written peice-
Beyond the 'threat' this man supposedly posed is the whole issue of living in a police state:

...snip...."Officials claim the shooting was justified by the perceived threat.

But how is it then that on December 3, 2001, pilots and crew, without any marshals present, were able to subdue Richard Reid who really did have a bomb?

Is this what happens when civilian functions increasingly become penetrated by military tactics and attitudes; when police and military functions blur; when personnel from all branches of military act as police on foreign and domestic soil and conversely, when police - local, state and federal - act more as special ops military units, sometimes with black Ninja suits and automatic weapons?

Not all potentially dangerous situations call for a militarized response."..... end snip-


Look what they've done to my world, Ma- Look what they've done to my world- ??? Paranoia strikes deep- into your life it will creep theres a man with a gun over there- and he's tellin me i got to beware.... hey now stop children what's that sound everybody look what's goin down....

even the 'sane' should be afraid- and not of the enemies from 'out there' but from those who believe we can get through this life alive- and still experience a 'full life'.

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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Straighten Up and Fly Normal...Or Else"
The title says a lot. I think part of the issue is one of control.

I noticed when my daughter was behaving "oddly" - mostly refusing to speak to anyone - how people trying to deal with her would get agitated. I think it was a matter of control. People who can't deal with people who don't obey commands - who don't act like everyone else, etc.


"In 2000, Chicago police shot and killed a deranged Arthur Hutchinson, who was menacing an officer with just a fork."


More and more people are getting autism and other things - so it seems to me - that people ought to learn to deal with it - be flexible.
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