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The Terrible, Horrible, Urgent National Disaster That Immigration Isn't

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 05:37 PM
Original message
The Terrible, Horrible, Urgent National Disaster That Immigration Isn't
The Terrible, Horrible, Urgent National Disaster That Immigration Isn't

by Lawrence Downes, an Editorial Board member, writes about suburban issues and immigration... with Lela Moore

NY Times


Part 1: What's Wrong With 'Getting Tough on Immigration'

"I. Immigration, Oversimplified

The arguments made by hard-line critics of immigration reform are depressingly simple, which makes them simply depressing.

They boil down to this: the immigration problems we have today, and a vast array of other problems, begin and end with immigrants themselves, the people who have committed the offense of being here illegally — or just being here, period, in undesirable numbers, with undesirable habits and undesirable effects on the health of the nation.

Their presence here is seen as overwhelmingly if not entirely bad, an unpardonable offense for which American citizens are made to suffer.

In this view, the problem is not going to be solved by repairing a complex system of immigration laws and regulations, by tinkering with the economic machinery to find a better fit between labor demand and supply, or by being more diligent about enforcing existing rules about workplaces and hiring. And it certainly won't be solved by being creative or more welcoming and humane toward immigrants in a way that rewards their hard work and desire to participate in the system more fully.

... SNIP"


http://select.nytimes.com/2006/06/20/opinion/21talking-points.html
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can't get the whole article but just the opening makes good sense
The whole issue is designed to do two things...arrange for legal cheap labor for business while creating a wedge issue for elections.

We have plenty of laws existig to deal with this. Enforcing those against business would be a start. Any law that comes out of this is only going to line the pockets of the MIC while not doing diddley for the average person except giving them someone to scapegoat for their poor voting habits, i.e republicans
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes. It will be interesting to see what the total "payoff" is the the GOP
Edited on Sat Jun-24-06 05:50 PM by applegrove
with making this an issue. I wonder if Latino & other voters will fall for it.. or puke at the tribalism created at a time when Latinos should be integrated. But I think the pay-off is in having the ability to boot immigrants out of the country..even if they have been there for a generation and have a family. Under the guise of crime.. it really would serve business to have the ability to kick out people under "guest worker" clauses. That way.. business gets cheap labour from "un-americans" and their long term desire for stock market ROAR without interfearance from the inflation causes by aggregate wage rises in the middle class will not stop their market with the currently required mini-recessions used to fight inflation.

By tribalizing the middle class into "heres" and "not really heres" then you can keep the markets roaring. And the workers.. or at least Latino workers or other immigrants..do the work of fighting inflation.

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BuddyYoung Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. For many people, OVERpopulation is definitely a problem

I didn't click on the link to read the entire article, but it seems to me that immigration is something of a red herring, whereas overpopulation is an important issue and the problems caused by overpopulation deserve serious, non-partisan study and debate.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Overpopulation can only be countered by making trade fair and
improving the lot of the poorest. That is the only thing that will work. Why the WH would want Walmart to move into Iraq and take the wealth away from small businessmen (who would be middle class and focus on smaller families and invest in their children because they have a little bit of excess cash to do so.. instead of going for security in large families) is beyond me. The world needs to get with middle class asap. So people have the choice and women have the choice. And when they do..they have a few kids and invest heavily in them. And small businesses run by local people and making wealth off of China themselves and then keeping that money in the country..is the only way to reduce overpopulation. Goes the same with any country.

I wish the GOP would talk about that. Or at least think about it. All they seem to be able to see is more money for themselves.

But you need good health care and good schools and a fair distribution of wealth to accomplish quality of life for families in any country in the world. Why the WH thinks that Walmarting Iraq (as was the plan a few years ago) would do anything to stop radicalized youth... is beyond me.

Saudi Arabians have had a policy of poverty as opposed to a middle class for all for 6 decades. And really..it has not benefitted the world in any way, shape or form. It especially has not benefitted the majority of people. Of the region.. or of the country itself. Not to mention the "guest workers".

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BuddyYoung Donating Member (455 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-24-06 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Rich people everywhere think the same way as the Saudis

The only thing that's different here is that our politicians pass legislation that benefits the rich, at the expense of the rest of society, thru clever propaganda-like tactics (calling tax cuts economic stimulus packages e.g.).
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-25-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. That wasn't the case for the middle of the 20th Century. And speak
for yourself and your own country. People in Canada & Europe are connected by national health care and other social programs. You project your countries obsession with wealth and the elite's obsession with controlling government onto the rest of the West. That isn't the way it is everywhere.
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