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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:10 PM
Original message
LTTE: You don't need faith to be atheist
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/letters/sfl-brmail765xjun27,0,1328375.story?coll=sfla-news-letters

Robert M. Perovich
Coral Springs

Re the June 13 letter, "It takes a lot of faith to be atheist": The writer implies atheists rely on faith to deny the existence of God. This is clearly erroneous because an atheist lacks faith in an entity that has no evidence for its existence. For those who believe in God, they rely solely on blind faith. However without proof, it is sheer conjecture.

The writer makes several points that need to be disputed:

He complains that "people have always tried to discredit the Bible." However, when a book is used to proselytize throughout the world, rational people will question its claims in search for the truth. This is called critical thinking.

"Miracles are easily explained." This implies the only explanation is God. Atheists and agnostics search for natural explanations for observable phenomena. Why is it a "problem" when proof is needed to conclude that a belief is a fact? We don't criticize our legal system for relying on evidence to prove guilt.

He argues the odds of evolution are "like metal pieces tossed in a bag and producing the Eiffel Tower." If lottery tickets are given to everyone on Earth, an individual has a one in 6 billion chance of winning. But the chance of having a winner is 100 percent. Mutations and natural selection over millions of years exploit these odds.

The DaVinci Code is fiction. So why has this book and movie caused such controversy among some in the religious community? Maybe they fear that open-minded people will question their faith.

Atheists require evidence. If God reveals himself to the world, they will become true believers. Then we will finally know where He or She stands on stem cell research, abortion, right to die and homosexuality. It would also put an end to the blind faith and dogmatism of religion, which historically have contributed to terrorism and global conflict.

But until that time comes, you certainly do not need faith to be an atheist.


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opiate69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. well said.. well said, indeed.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks.
Recommended.

I'm stealing this, it's for a good cause. :)
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. BMUS - we so miss you in the Ath and Ag forum!
:hi: :pals:
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Wow.
Thanks.

I'll bet some of the believers in the religion forum would love to see me spending my time there, too.
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Yeah, but not in the same way
:evilgrin:

Surely you visit us now and again?


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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yup, that's it in a nutshell
There's an analogy I often use. "If religion is a television channel, then atheism is the OFF button"
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. if only there was a way to turn it all off
I try to be tolerent but it at all really gets on my nerves sometimes
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Free Will!!!
Isn't it refreshing to have a G-d who doesn't insist you believe in Him/Her/It?

G-d believes in YOU, and that's, why in fact, you exist! Humans can create NOTHING, oh yeah sure, we can attempt to copy life forms, we can 'fool around' with genetics, etc. But we (humans) don't in any way EVER 'establish the rules'....the CREATOR (G-d) has done that.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. So, bushco is God's fault?
I want a refund.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I don't understand how your flippant comment to my post
in 'any way applies' ....

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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #11
27. Of course you don't.
I wouldn't expect you to.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. dupe/delete
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 09:38 AM by beam me up scottie
oops
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klyon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-04-06 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
74. may I take a shot and answer for someone else
Edited on Tue Jul-04-06 07:54 AM by klyon
your assertion that man creates nothing led this person to respond that he must have created George and he thinks he got gypped. That is it that is all, simple.

Your comment was "G-d believes in YOU, and that's, why in fact, you exist! Humans can create NOTHING, oh yeah sure, we can attempt to copy life forms, we can 'fool around' with genetics, etc. But we (humans) don't in any way EVER 'establish the rules'....the CREATOR (G-d) has done that."
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. You say that...
Without a shred of evidence. Thats the difference. I insist on proof if someone expects me to live by their rules.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. well, that's be beauty of free will.....
you aren't forced to live by those rules at all....but it would be better for yourself if you did.

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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. "but it would be better for yourself if you did."
Yeah, and history proves your point right? :rofl:
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. OMG, THE ARROGANCE
:o
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. What arrogance?
Am I wrong? Has religion had an overall positive effect on how people treat eachother(and that includes people of different faiths). The answer is a resounding fucking NO. You may not like the answer. Doesn't make it any less true. :shrug:
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. pssssssssst !
I think skittles was talking about the OTHER poster!
:D
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #47
58. Oh lol...
Thanks BMUS. Sorry about that skittles :hi:
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. lol, I just woke up
I thought huh? :D
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #40
61. no, I absolutely agree with that answser
relgion has NOT had a positive effect - it has served to DIVIDE people
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Not to offend, but I prefer She/He/It = SHIT n/t
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daydreamer Donating Member (503 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
73. Yes, it might be a IT.
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. So, what is God's religion?
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
41. What?!? How does that add up?
"Isn't it refreshing to have a G-d who doesn't insist you believe in Him/Her/It?"


No offense but how does being punished for eternity equal a choice to not believe? That makes no sense. yes, I understand that I have the choice to not believe, but if I don't then your God (you can type it - it does't count) will send me to Hell to be tortured for all of eternity, which is a mighty long time. It's like telling me I can choose not to breathe.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #41
67. no offense, but
Where did the poster you are responding to say the God/dess to which s/he is referring is sentencing anyone to "being punished for eternity"?

Did I miss a thread where you all discussed this?


Why are you assuming this person's beliefs - just because someone else might believe that - or you were taught that - or some other thing?
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-30-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. true, I am assuming a lot
however, you'd think the original poster would let me know if I were wrong.

I don't think I was too far off the mark, however, as the concept of "believe or go to Hell" is not entirely unknown.

I just don't think it's "Free Will" nor do I agree that God has created anything. If anything it is my opinion that it was the other way around.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-01-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. I wouldn't assume
that the original poster would let you know. A lot of people don't want to get into fights. More often than not - I ignore people who post obnoxious things that seem like bait.


While I agree that the "the concept of "believe or go to Hell" is not entirely unknown" - it is NOT a common belief among liberally religious people - and I see the assumption and accusation comparable to calling someone a Freeper - people who WOULD be more likely to think that.

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Jaundice James Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color. n/t
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. good one!
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Bravo! Very well done!
The problem is that believers feel compelled to define everyone else in terms of their own belief. They simply can't comprehend a total absense of belief, but that is what we have to ask them to do. Or at least stop insulting us by telling us what we BELIEVE. We don't. That's the problem.

I generally ask them about Thor. Do they believe in Thor? No? Then they BELIEVE that Thor does not exist, which opens the possibility that Thor DOES exist, since an absense of proof of existence doesn't necessarily imply a lack of existence. What? You've never seen a bearded Norseman in the sky throwing his gigantic hammer during a thunderstorm? How do you know he isn't there, that you've just been looking at the wrong cloud?

And so it goes. The more openly intelligent get the point. The rest eventually start to yell. In both cases, they learn to leave me alone about it, and that's a good thing.
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-27-06 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The Old "ask someone to prove a negative trick", eh???
an absense of proof of existence doesn't necessarily imply a lack of existence.

Won't work :-)
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
16. Excellent letter
Every time I hear that trite pile of excrement (atheism is based on faith) I want to :banghead:.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. You don't need faith to be agnostic, but you do to be an atheist.
You have to have faith that there is no God and there are no gods. It works the same as having faith that your light will turn on when you flip the switch, even though you might not understand the wireing and the electronics behind it.

To be agnostic means you don't have enough faith to say either way.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Well said.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. No, actually, the poster is sadly mistaken.
I just love it when DU believers tell DU atheists what we really think.

I mean, we couldn't possibly know more about our own beliefs and/or lack of them than they do. :sarcasm:
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. It's pure logic. You're actively believing something that you must take
without proof.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Logic? Do you even know the meaning of the word?
If you had read the links I provided you wouldn't be making such a ridiculous statement.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. Both the existence & non-existence of God are absolutes.
Absolutes are by their nature unprovable Belief in unprovable statements is commonly referred to as faith, but if you wish to dub it atheist mojo, go for it.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Here's a clue.
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 06:46 PM by beam me up scottie
You appear to be in desperate need of one.

Atheism means a lack of belief in gods. Absolutism has nothing to do with it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism

http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist.htm

http://www.atheistsunited.org/wordsofwisdom/Stein/whatisath.html


Don't lose it, you never know when you'll get another one.
;)

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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. From your own source- Wikipedia:
Narrower definitions of atheism, however, typically label as atheists only those people who affirmatively assert the nonexistence of gods, and classify other nonbelievers as agnostics or simply non-theists.

We are using different definitions--both acceptable. I don't see anywhere that I have insulted you as you have me. Ah well, there's a button for your kind.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. My "kind" ?
You mean agnostic atheists who are sick of being told what we believe by arrogant assholes in threads where the subject is about arrogant assholes telling us what we believe?

Where do I sign?
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-03-06 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #49
72. our kind
that about says it all, does it not, beam me? :o
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. Nonsense
Did you even read the initial LTTE? Provide evidence and then we can all be happy joy, joy believers.

:eyes:
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. You couldn't be more wrong. I don't need faith to be an atheist.
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 09:33 AM by beam me up scottie
I would appreciate it if DU believers would let us define our own atheism, thank you very much.

I'm sick of being told I don't know what I believe or don't.

If I did the same thing to christians, I'd be crucified.

Atheims simply means without gods.


Some light reading on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

http://atheism.about.com/od/definitionofatheism

http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist.htm

http://www.atheistsunited.org/wordsofwisdom/Stein/whatisath.html
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. You hit the nail on the head
No one should try to define the faith of another. That causes all kinds of problems. I think that we are all guilty of it. I know that I have been in the past but am making an effort not to do that anymore.

Atheism, as defined by my atheist friends, is a lack of belief in God, gods or spirital beings.

I don't know where the "you have to have faith to be an atheist" comes in. I've never heard that one before.

Me - I can't imagine not believing in God and Jesus Christ but that does not give me the right to 1) define what you do/don't believe or 2) ram my beliefs down your throat.

Defining the beliefs of others is what causes religious intolerance and ultimately armed conflict, acts of terrorism and war.

BTW, nice to see ya, SMUS. :hi: Don't be fooled - we love you in the Religion forum! :loveya:
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. arnheim!!!
I'm so glad to see you!

And you're right, of course. Asking someone what they think or believe is much more respectful than just assuming we know.

Diversity rocks!

And so do you. :hug:

Back to work with me.

If I'm caught admitting I'm an atheist, I'll be living in my car again.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. We always meet in these types of threads
We must be addicted to banging our heads against the wall. ;)

Now, get thee to work, you whackjob!
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. "No one should try to define the faith of another."
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 09:59 AM by w4rma
I rest my case. I don't know what ya'll are getting so worked up about. It takes faith to believe something without proof and you can't prove one way or another that there is or isn't a God. It's logic, plain and simple.
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. Logic ran screaming into the night when she read your posts.
Try learning something instead of TELLING me what I believe.

If you would click on the links I provided, you'd understand why we resent your arrogant attempts to tell us what we believe and/or don't.

Willful ignorance is not an excuse.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
68. I would appreciate it if DU atheists would define their own
atheism for their own selves and stop trying to pretend that they can define it for all atheists.

As if we are some kind of group.

As if your sites prove that you can define atheism for everybody else.

Where people cannot refer to reputable sources without being accused of bigotry or some other nonsense - because there is a definition that is different from yours.

It's makes it about impossible to discuss things without acrimony.

If that is your goal - you are achieving it.
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. Don't tell me what I think
What I object to is being told by other people what I think and believe. No one can get inside my head and read my mind. As an atheist, I am the only one who can tell you if I require faith - and no , it doesn't take faith. It takes skepticism.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
42. but I do know how it works. Electricity is fairly simple to get. :)
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
52. Could you define "god" for me, please
Please provide a universally accepted definition. Until then, I cannot address your post.

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 07:24 AM
Response to Original message
21. Nice article.
I'm sure the original writer will miss the points entirely and scoff at it, but what else can you expect from someone who doesn't even understand what faith is?
:shrug:
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
22. Very nice.
good frame of reference to explain mechanics of atheism. In fundie debates we always have to start with definitions and you've done that very well.
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BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
38. please lord.. save me from your followers
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
75. Hi BrokenBeyondRepair!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
39. At birth, we are all atheists. Only indoctrination changes that. nt
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. and it's amazing how we almost always wind up
being born into the one True religion. what are the odds?

</sarcasm>
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
46. Gee, Synnie,
who could have predicted that fundamentalist propaganda would be posted in your thread?

I'm shocked.

What would we do without the believers who tell us the truthiness about our "beliefs".
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Dunno, 'cause I don't have "beliefs"
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 09:33 PM by Synnical
I'm Shocked Too, I tell ya. I mean, as Rummie, said, "Who knew"?

:sarcasm:

edit: typo
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Of course you do.
You believe the light will come on when you flip the switch, don't you?

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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Nope, I've logically concluded, based on evidence, that
Edited on Wed Jun-28-06 10:31 PM by Synnical
My car will start itself and that the sun will "rise" on the morrow. And that Paris exists, though, I've never been there, and that Paris Hilton also exists, much to my chagrin.

:headbang:

Edit: replace "the" with "that"
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-28-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. To your chagrin?
Just imagine how Shannon Dougherty feels.
:evilfrown:
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
56. The Story of Job
Edited on Thu Jun-29-06 12:16 AM by Mind_your_head
Job's friends were certain that they were correct in their judgement of him. ..... Human wisdom is always partial and temporary, so undue pride in our own conclusions is ___________.

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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. A human is telling me that human wisdom is partial and temporary.



How very profound.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
59. Interesting discussions on this thread...
I classify myself as an agnostic. I define this label as one who doesn't know and doesn't think one can know about the existence of gods. Basically I say, "I don't know". My wife calls this the wussy fence sitter position. So be it! I like the fence, it gives me a place to sit. :D

But, I've always thought about atheism as the other end of the spectrum of pure belief. Atheists are confident that there is no supernatural being. Using this definition of atheists, then it would seem that it does take faith to be an atheist.

However, I have recently been redefining my understanding of atheism in a way to NOT contrast it with belief of a god. An atheist (ask my wife) will tell you that it is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of logical deduction. For instance, I don't believe in fairies. I am an afairiest. My next door neighbor, when he is not taking his meds, strongly believes that they exist in his back yard. He sees their work in his flower bed, and he hears their little wings at night. He is a BELIEVER! In his eyes, it takes great faith on my part to not acknowledge their existence. I am a non-fairy believer. He wonders how much energy it must take for me to disbelieve. In reality, I don't believe in fairies because there is no evidence that suggest fairies exist. It is not faith, it is reason. Faith is the belief in a position absent evidence to back up that belief.

Now, take this argument back to atheists. I mentioned this to my wife and she said she thought I was getting a clue...finally! It takes no faith for her to disbelieve in a god because to her, a belief in god is akin to a belief in fairies or leprechauns, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. There is no evidence for these fantasies in her opinion...no faith here at all, just pure reason.

So....I'm rethinking my position.

I'll consult the fairies....
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. Have you read Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World"?
Terrific book that addresses your line of inquiry, specifically the chapter entitled, "The Dragon in My Garage". And for the record, Sagan was an agnostic atheist. Just as there are flavors of theism, there are flavors of atheism. I wouldn't say that Sagan was a fence sitter, but he wanted evidence . . .

Thanks for your post.

-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale

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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. I loved that book!
Yes, I remember that chapter. That man was a genius. Gone way before his time.

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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Miss ya, Carl.
:cry:
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Duncan Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
60. Excellent letter. nt
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cracksquirrel Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
63. Well written
I don't know if I would consider myself an atheist so much as a "militant agnostic". With the regards to questions of god or divinity, I say: "Hell, I don't know and neither do you!"
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Mind_your_head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-29-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. Welcome to DU, cracksquirrel
:hi:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-05-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. Hi cracksquirrel!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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