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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 04:37 PM
Original message
Screw the Moderate Republicans
By Cenk Uygur
Created Sep 14 2007 - 9:17am

The Democrats should play politics. That's normally considered a dirty word, but in this case it can help. The Senate Democrats are worried that they can't get 60 votes in the Senate unless they pass a watered down, irrelevant Iraq withdrawal bill. And they're right, they can't.

But here's my solution -- don't.

snip

So, here is my solution. Pass a real withdrawal bill (giving our troops the money to come home in 12 months sounds about right), then let the Republicans block it with a filibuster. Beat the living crap out of them politically. Pass the same bill, let them block it again. Repeat and repeat and repeat, until they cry uncle.

They would also take a pounding on their credibility. John Warner claims he wants withdrawal, but if he doesn't vote that way, then is he really an honest broker? Whatever you do, don't give them political cover to pretend they voted for withdrawal while voting to let the president have complete discretion.

The way the Democrats have handled this so far, it seems that they are responsible for getting us out of Iraq. But in reality, it is the Senate Republicans who are responsible because they are blocking real action on withdrawal. Why not highlight this? Why would you take responsibility for Republican failure?

This is Politics 101. Why would you let your opponent have political cover and take heat from your own constituents for caving in? Why not instead pass a real bill and put tremendous pressure on your opponents to come around to your position?


More:
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/node/9924/print
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Young Turk Is Right, Ma'am
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I've always thought so.
Thank you for the kick, sir!
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CanonRay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Duh! You think Pelosi et al would think of this. But nooooo....
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. because in their minds they are playing it safe.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. And all the while we'd have the support of Generals. Wes Clark being one.
That would defuse any claims that the bill is illegitimate.

This is what I've been calling for. But no, the Dems have moved too far to the right to do what is right. Or so it would seem.
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. An orderly, funded withdrawal sounds like a reasonable plan - justifiable and
*doable*. It answers the calls for withdrawal among a broad cross section of America and would allow provisions for all possible safety in removing US personnel from the theater.

12 months gives the Iraqi 'government' and it's security forces adequate notice to take a real lead in coming to some resolution for the civil war, which our presence only exacerbates.

Mr. Uygur makes a good point about the US domestic politics of it all, as well. Clear funding for a rational withdrawal - no more, no less - would be a good line in the sand.



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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Read history! We do it this way or we face ignominy!
Vietnam, even with a scheduled withdrawal was not handled correctly.

Going back in history, Napoleon's army starving and freezing on a withdrawal from Russia. Athens'army, with its famed navy trapped, forced to withdraw across Sicily, starving and dying on the long way over the island.

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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I assume you refer to Ranalli's analogies of the Peloponnesian War with Iraq.
Edited on Sat Sep-15-07 08:04 PM by pinto
Thanks for your input.

Some good parallels, yet I think the difference is that the Athenians apparently chose an all-or-nothing agenda, and stuck with it, disastrously. We seem to be moving to a reasonable withdrawal - note the end of the 'total victory' meme from the White House - which will hopefully minimize losses on all sides.


Both campaigns were condemned by contemporaries for having been undertaken in a spirit of hubris, without adequate thought for preparation and without adequate knowledge of the distant land they were setting out to conquer.

<snip>

Is there any sense in a military “surge”? In Sicily, Athens made a dangerous double-or-nothing gamble, and lost. Still, having committed the necessary resources wholeheartedly, Athens arguably might have won — or at least not lost so badly — if its army had been better led in the field.

What would it take to win in Iraq, to crush the insurgency and suppress civil war? According to retired Army Colonel Paul Hughes, experience shows that successful peacekeeping requires deploying a force in a ratio of one soldier for every 50 citizens.

To pacify even Baghdad alone, a force of 130,000 troops would be needed in the city —about a ten-fold increase from current levels.

A gamble that huge is apparently too large even for the White House to stomach. What the President has actually proposed, a surge of about 20,000 troops, might make sense if intended as a face-saving measure, a show of strength before withdrawal.

With every additional month that passes on the present course, the United States and allies can expect to lose dozens of additional soldiers, with hundreds more wounded, without getting any closer to victory.

<snip>

If it is really intended as a gamble at victory, it is quite a long shot. The U.S. generals in Iraq might well throw up their hands in despair, as the Athenians would have if their pleas for recall or reinforcement had been answered so tepidly.

Clinging to hope against odds, President Bush has been slow to publicly recognize the grave problems in Iraq, and he was slow to craft a meaningful strategy either for victory or withdrawal.

http://www.theglobalist.com/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=5926





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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-16-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Actually, I hadn't read Ranelli's piece but I have read several essays
by historians over the past four years that discuss the parallels between the two wars. I've read key portions of "The History of the Peloponnesian War" by Thucydides who describes the Athenian retreat in sorrowful detail. Also you may want to read a pretty recent book "A War Like No Other" by Victor Davis Hanson, who is a conservative military historian. However, his book deals with the military tactics that were used in the war and it is just fascinating. And of course there is Donald Kagan's "The Peloponnesian War," a big 4 parter which I haven't tackled yet.

There was a good reason, BTW, why the Athenian general was so skittish about the retreat. Athens routinely put their failed generals to death once they returned to Athens!

It is interesting that the arts, notably playwriting, and philosophy, with the emergence of Socrates, Plato and then Aristotle, rose from the ashes of the Athenian defeat.

A horrible plague had also decimated Athens during the war and killed many of its democratic leaders, eventually even Pericles. BTW, his funeral oration for the war dead, which you can read in Thucydides' book, has an interesting description of everyday life of Athenian citizens; talk about parallels with our society today!

Also of interest is Thomas Cahill's wonderful "Sailing the Wine Dark Sea: Why the Greeks Matter," particularly with his reference to what happened to the poor Melians who sought to stay out of the War and suffered having the Athenian army slaughter its men and sell its women and children into slavery. Not a pretty picture of Athens' democracy or its empire!

Thanks for the Ranelli article. It's a good piece and I enjoyed reading it!



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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. I couldn't agree more!
They need to keep pushing and pushing in order to expose the hypocrites and to let the American people know they are on their side. With enough pressure from the Congressional Democrats along with the majority of Americans, the Republicans will eventually cave. Even if they don't cave, at the very least let the record show who the facists were for the sake of history.
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Stargleamer Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. What moderate Republicans?
Eisenhower Republicans died out long ago. They're all heavily into plutocracy and into making themselves richer now.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-15-07 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Hey, I just copied Cenk's headline
But you're right. At best, they're "moderate" (in quotes) Republicans.
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