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Washington Post: What Ms. Pelosi Knew

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steven johnson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:17 PM
Original message
Washington Post: What Ms. Pelosi Knew
Saturday's editorial in the Washington Post raises several issues that go beyond the accuracy of Nancy Pelosi's recollections and the accuracy of CIA versions of their secret Congressional testimony: what was she supposed to do if she really questioned the behavior of a Commander in Chief during wartime and how much detail constitutes accurate oversight, especially by minority members of Congressional committees?

There seems to be a lot of 'tail wagging the dog' talk here. What is the tail supposed to do when feces come down the line besides get out of the way?


One has to do with the functioning of the intelligence oversight system and reforms that may be needed. Are leaders of the intelligence committees being appropriately informed? Should information be shared more broadly? Given the constraints of classified information and pledges of secrecy, is there an adequate mechanism for lawmakers to express opposition or concern?

Second, at a time when many are calling for prosecutions or other forms of accountability, it's important to understand how wide a circle understood and did or did not endorse the methods being used. As Philip D. Zelikow, former counselor to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, testified last week at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on the Justice Department's torture memos, "the U.S. government over the past seven years adopted an unprecedented program in American history of cruelly calculated, dehumanizing abuse and physical torment to extract information. This was a mistake, perhaps a disastrous one. It was a collective failure in which a number of officials and members of Congress and staffers of both parties played a part . . . Precisely because this was a collective failure it is all the more important to comprehend it and learn from it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/15/AR2009051502387.html
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:23 PM
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1. this is ridiculous!! even if she DID know anything, she couldn't do anything about it.
this whole trying to change the subject and point at someone else is crap. here's what they should do.... get a special investigator to sort it all out... and let the chips fall where they may. obviously the only independent entity that can objectively investigate this whole thing is an independent special prosecutor.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 04:27 PM
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2. Fuck that
Hang the Bushies high.

Torture is what happens when you let mean, arrogant idiots have toys they are not smart enough to play with.

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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. I can understand her problem...
and if she did indeed know that "torture" including water-boarding was being used, why she might not have objected. Considering the time and place and the fact that we might face another terrorist attack, it's hard to be critical if she did choose to avoid exercising the limited power she had. To make a stand on principle over the issue of water-boarding suspected terrorists that might have some knowledge of another attack would have been political suicide.

But she may be telling the truth. The CIA does a lot of stuff that we have no knowledge of. That's the nature of their business. They are used to keeping secrets and would have no qualms about lying.

The actual facts may never be known. The CIA is in a "cover your ass" mode. I predict the issue will become even more confusing.

I watched the news conference and I have to admit she looked very nervous. But then, if I were to take on the CIA or the IRS, I also would look nervous. You don't tug on Superman's cape and you don't pull the mask off the Lone Ranger without worrying about the results.

But I sincerely hope she wasn't lying. Assuming that there is IRREFUTABLE evidence of her lying, she hurts Democrats by making us look the same as Republicans. I would find supporting her, if she actually lied to support her political existence or merely for the political objective for revenge by some of the base of our party, hard to condone.

We now need to get to the bottom of this issue. Unfortunately, this is a distraction to far more important issues we need to solve.


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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. She always looks nervous
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. You may have a very good point...
Usually I've only seen short news bits in which she spoke. The news conference was the only time I had a chance to watch her for more than one minute.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-15-09 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. Impotent "oversight" seems rather useless.
Members of Congress have an absolute Constitutional right to speak out. Article I, Section 6. And that is what she ought to have done. The notion that the public does not have a right to know the public's business - and everything the government does is the public's business - is fatuous.
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