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Analysis: Obama debating Cheney is a plus for GOP

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Tab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:00 PM
Original message
Analysis: Obama debating Cheney is a plus for GOP

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. – In political debate, the side that keeps its arguments simple and repeats them again and again is likely to gain the advantage. It is an easier sale, especially when the topic is as scary as terrorism.

That's how Republicans got the edge in the dispute over President Barack Obama's planned closing of the Guantanamo Bay prison. And it put former Vice President Dick Cheney on a separate but almost equal platform with the president of the United States, which is a plus any time the party out of power can manage it.

Their back-to-back speeches on Thursday gave Cheney "a lot of credibility" and put Obama on the defensive, said Republican pollster David Winston.

"From a political standpoint, I think Cheney wins on points," said GOP strategist Rich Galen. Long-term, the former vice president's premier role may have a downside for the Republicans, given his 25 percent approval rating and his status as the most unpopular top figure in an unpopular administration. But Galen said that at this point, "It's either Cheney or who else. There's no who else, so you take Cheney."

...
It was, as Obama said, opened without a plan on what to do with the prisoners except lock them up. Bush did it by presidential order; there was no discussion or legislation involved, and in 2006 the Supreme Court overruled the system by which the administration planned to try prisoners. At one point, Guantanamo held up to 750 inmates. The new president noted that more than 525 prisoners were released under the Bush administration, before he took office and ordered the place closed.

"Rather than keeping us safer, the prison at Guantanamo has weakened American national security," Obama said. "It is a rallying cry for our enemies. It sets back the willingness of our allies to work with us in fighting an enemy that operates in scores of countries."

That's complicated. Republicans are still keeping it simple.

"Guantanamo has worked very well," said Sen. Mitch McConnell, the GOP leader. "I'm not sure this is broken and needs fixing."

And certainly not if it will mean bringing prisoners to the United States to be tried and imprisoned if convicted.

"Republicans oppose releasing these terrorists or importing them into our local communities," said Rep. John Boehner, the House Republican leader.

Obviously, but nobody has proposed either.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_debating_cheney_analysis



It is unprecedented for an ex-President - certainly an ex-VP - to criticize the new, incoming President at all, much less to this extent. Most politely fade into the background. Of course, Cheney might have another agenda, like setting the stage to avoid prosecution, or maybe he's just a sociopath and can't bear to be deemed wrong (or both).

Obama shouldn't have to be led into this argument, but at the same time, Obama's a smart cat, surrounded by other smart cats. He might be a step ahead of us, and is letting Cheney dig his own hole. America has been focused on the economy, and with the historical awareness of tree squirrels, might have just relegated the whole "torture thing" to the past, now that Obama has banned it, but Cheney is keeping the issue front and center, and I'm not convinced that's a good strategic move for him, because now we're all saying "oh, yeah... we were doing that, weren't we? That was bad.". Neither Obama nor Cheney should be underestimated. This is sort of a real-life playout of the forces of Good vs. Evil, it seems.

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braunfels Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obama on the defense
Cheney and the right wing know how to handle timid dems. Obama is now on the defense when he should be going after the war criminals. What's wrong with this picture?
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Or, Obama is looking at the real intelligence and knows that the truth
is not on Cheney's side. Perhaps Obama knows it will be more effective to play his cards strategically, rather than dumping all of the info out at once.

Case in point: the bushies releasing all of those prisoners from Gitmo before Obama became president. That fact was out in the public during the election, but you didn't hear Obama harping on it. You didn't hear him harping on it until Cheney gave him an opportunity to turn the record back on Cheney and bush.

That's called keeping your powder dry. That's called not shooting your wad all at once. Obama now has the post-inauguration insider scoop on what happened in the bush WH, and he's a politician who knows how to pick and choose his fights...and when to release what tasty morsel to the press.
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. This simple analysis ignores the effect emerging facts have on the subject.
If fact, by keeping it "simple," Cheney is setting the Rs up for an even bigger fall. With every new fact and atrocity that emerges from the record, the bushies and their fellow supporters of torture look more and more like a bunch of scared little men who were totally in over their heads trying to run the government, and who resorted to desperate and ineffective means because they hadn't a clue.

Sure, the simpletons in this country want a simple answer, but if there were enough of them engaged today, we'd be talking about what President McCain was doing.

The country has moved way beyond the RW idiocies. Now, it's just a matter of Congressional D's finding the guts to do what the country demands they do.
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braunfels Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Dems are weak
That's the message the repubs are putting out. They know how to deal with the likes of Carter, Kerry, and now Obama. They're doing a pretty good job shutting down Pelosi too.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. This is your brain on crack...
Um...yikes!
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jamieque Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Uh...
What are you talking about, braunfels? Not all Dems are weak. If you believe that then I am afraid I am going to have to say you are wrong. Obama is far from weak and I am not saying that because I am fan of his. I am stating it because it is true and in time you'll see what I mean.
As for the Republicans doing a good job... WHAT? Ha ha ha... The only thing they are doing is digging themselves a deeper hole to crawl out of. Mark my words when I say that the Republican Party has no idea what is coming. What the president is trying to do is the right thing despire all the naysayers and doubters. I know it is hard to trust our leaders but lets at least give a try this time. I think we might be pleasantly surprised with end results.

As for the Republicans... If they can make such bs statement about the Dems then the same could be said about the Republicans when they say
'they are fiscal responsible...'

Fiscal responsible... the Republicans? Ha ha ha ha, um excuse me but are you kidding me? This is the party that screwed all of us with their greedy, wasting ways. If the Republicans have the nerve to call ALL Dems weak then we have a right to call them what they are...

HYPOCRITES!

Here is some wise advice from me to the Republicans: Shut the hell up and go sit in the damn corner. While you are there think about the damage you guys have done to our nation's image and its economy. Think really hard and do some 'actual' soul searching. Not this made up bs we hear coming out of your mouths on the airwaves. Geez, you guys talk to damn much as it is. Spare us anymore of your political bs. Oh, and while you guys are at it see if you can find your lost hearts. I say this because many people have died because of you assholes and your selfish ways. So before you guys open your damn mouths to say anything you better be sure you have found your hearts.

Because to be bluntly honest... I think you Republicans need to get your own acts together first before you say anything to anyone else.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. What HAS come out is that Cheneyis a fucking COWARD - BIGTIME!
That's why we NEVER say him for EIGHT YEARS - he was literally FREAKING OUT SCARED and was literally HIDING!!!

That's why he was so eager to GO TO WAR - ANYTHING to protect HIMSELF first, the "country" - even the REPUKE PARTY - had nothing to do with it!

That's why the SEARCH for WMD, and the TORTURING!!! Only COWARDS and SCARED people do things like THEY did!!!

THIS has got to be hammered home again and again and again...
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braunfels Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Cheney looks like the tough guy
Compared to Obama. Repubs pulled off the same thing when they made Kerry look weak. Remember the purple heart band aids?
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stopbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Your opinion.
Most of the country disagrees.
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Submariner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Remember the purple heart band aids?
That was verification that the repubs think of politics first, and country last. That is the only way to explain 2 yellow bellied draft dodging cowards (Bush/Cheney) getting over on Kerry, a decorated military combat veteran, with some help from the Swiftboat Liars for Bush.
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jamieque Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Um... sorry
Cheney is no tough guy. He is no good bastard who helped ruin our economy with this fucking war. Oh and by the way the Repubs had to play dirty to make Kerry look weak because that is all they know how to do.

Play dirty! That is the only trick they know how to play. Sad but true. That is why we got stuck with that no talented asshole Bush and his corrupt pal, Cheney for 8 fucking years of misery. Al Gore SHOULD have won in 2000 instead of Bush and his morally corrupt friends. Please do us a favor, braunfels, and don't compare Cheney to Obama. I say this simpily because it like comparing night to day and I for one happy that we have made it to this day alive. Being stuck all that dreary night for 8 long years was pure torture. Forget waterboarding... Bush and Cheney being leaders was torture enough and I for one am glad their reign is over and done.

Now if we can somehow put a muzzle on Cheney it would be wonderful but of course we have to let him speak because of his Right to Speech... damn it!
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jamieque Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. You're absolutely correct...
Your statement on the matter is the truth, stopbush. I agree with you. Cheney is just digging himself and his party deeper into that hole they are currently in. Now if the Dems would just grow some balls and do their jobs we may finally get some REAL changes made in our country.

I know it hopeful thinking but hey, I am optimism. You have to have hope or else what is the point in going on.
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mr1956 Donating Member (211 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Only the Repubulicants are framing this as a "debate"
And the media is following along like sheep. I find Cheney irrelevant and refuse to listen to his lies any longer.
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braunfels Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Not listening?
You may not be willing to, but a lot of others are tuned in.
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Still Sensible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bull shit. Just a RW stooge in the MSM trying to
make it look like anybody that matters is really listening to Cheney. Truth is, the 25% or so of RW nutjobs, a club of which the author is obviously a member, are the only ones listening. Same old Rove playbook--fear, terra, keep saying it and it will be true. And saying that the President is "on the defensive" on this--another Rovian tactic--doesn't make it true.

Of course the simplification of every issue into "good vs. evil" is what Bushco did. For about five years it worked. It isn't working today.

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Proud Liberal Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. Has there been some kind of groundswell support for Cheney/GOP?
:shrug:

Oh, and THANK GOD President Obama DOESN'T "keep it simple" when he talks about COMPLEX issues. If Cheney and GOP want to go around talking and spinning their paranoid theories and ideas, I say let them. The public rejected them in 2006 and 2008 and there's been little evidence AFAIK that they are gaining any kind of serious public support now.
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santamargarita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-23-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. Debate my ass! An intelligent President and a hunched-over Fascist Pig
~
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