"Pat [Tillman] isn't with God,'' he said. "He's f -- ing dead."

n/t

:eyes:

The headline is a direct quote, and to me best sums up the brother's (and presumably Pat Tillman's) beliefs.

Shall we also please the Reverend Fred Phelps -- of "God Hates Fags" infamy -- by eliding Pat Tillman's apparent willingness to accept homosexuals in professional sports?

Should we be willing to accept the hero's sacrifice and at the same time bowdlerize his beliefs because some may find them unpalatable?

Or to paraphrase Matthew 5 and Luke 11, shall we hide his light under a bushel?

To the extent that Pat Tillman continues to exist, it is in our memory of him -- and it does that memory injury to trim it to fit our own prejudices, sweeping the parts we find inconvenient into the Memory Hole.

It was nice, and it's odd to critique a memorial service, but once his brother got up there it became much more real.

Too many politicians, athletes, ect in the beginning. It became real as soon as I heard "fucking dead" coming from the tv.

kkkarl wouldn't let him wade into this fire storm

He sounded like a very open minded and an intellegent guy.

even posthumously, by the right wing media. What a loss to his family and our country.

Ted Rall & Rene Gonzalez

Here's the big DU thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1521565

as opposed to some other ass hats here.

For standing up for Pat's beliefs. I don't know enough about Tillman to comment on him, really, but I think it's good that his brother wasn't ok with letting the image of his life be distorted.

:evilgrin:

Pat Tillman may well be another hero for progressive-minded people. I just posted the link to this article on a New England Patriots site. It's perfect reading for sports enthusiasts, many of whom are politically narrow minded.

Pat's brother has a right to his views which may come as a shock to the people who wave the flag and Bible in order to mask their sinister motives. Diversity of opinion scares them. I believe in God, but I respect Pat's and/or his brother's right not to believe or to believe in whatever. The repubs don't.

For a really telling article on this whole thing, read Rick Reilly's column "The Hero and the Unknown Soldier" in the May 3, 2004 issue of Sports Illustrated.

bushies probably wanted to spin in there favor. but not now, no way can they build up a guy that wouldn't have a problem with gay people, or wasn't in awe of pat robinson.

I wonder if his real problem is realizing that his brother f--ing died in vain.

:cry:
rocknation

I read the article. This is so sad. It is also a wonderful piece of writing; it totally rearranged my thinking and feelings.

my reaction was WOW

I'm new here on DU so have patience with me as I learn.

I didn't see the service for Pat T, but I am a bit disturbed about all the media attention he has received. From what I understand and have read about him, this is not what he would have wanted.

We are constantly bombarded by the million dollar contract he gave up to go back into the service....but you know what?...It is nothing compared to his life, and as such it holds no more value than any of the other 700+ soldiers who have been killed. Everyone of those 700+ soldiers gave up just as much as Pat did. They all had families and friends and lives they had built back home. All the money in the world is nothing compared to that! I greive for Pat's family and friends, just as I greive for the families and friends of all the other soldiers who have died, no more, no less.

The media latches on to these people and holds them up not as public service, but to increase their bottom line, or as in Sinclair Broadcasting's case, to further their political agenda (they wouldn't show nightline, but I wonder if they blacked this out to??? I doubt it!). Sorry if I seem to be ranting, but I needed to get that off my chest.

In closing, I hold up a glass and shed a tear for all of the soldiers who have given up everything they had to give.

Grab yourself a virtual "drink" in the Lounge.

:beer:

We are constantly bombarded by the million dollar contract he gave up to go back into the service....but you know what?...It is nothing compared to his life, and as such it holds no more value than any of the other 700+ soldiers who have been killed. Everyone of those 700+ soldiers gave up just as much as Pat did.

You're right, and yet, you're wrong.

Yes, life is much more valuable than 3.6 million dollars or any other amount of money.

What you're missing is that our "all volunteer military" gets many -- if not most -- of its enlistees from the ranks of the poor, and those who have few better options than putting their lives on the line for low pay and a chance at the G.I. Bill.

Notably, the "rich, well-born, and the able" -- to quote Alexander Hamilton -- and children of politicians don't, generally, serve.

Pat Tillman is not notable because he died. He's notable because even though he had other, "better" options, he chose to do what he felt was his duty when he had ever opportunity, and indeed was encouraged to, take the easier road in life.

And once he was in the military, by all accounts he lost his life making yet another sacrifice, putting himself in the line of fire so that the men in another squad might live.

It's this willingness to freely sacrifice much -- to truly volunteer, without the twin coercions of poverty and lack pf opportunity -- and to do his duty, that makes Pat Tillman a hero worthy of the attention he has received.

And Tillman's a contrast to those whose "service" to their country consisted of draft deferments because of "other priorities" (Dick Cheney), teaching business classes (John Ashcroft), or not showing up for duty in a cushy assignment in VC-infested Alabama (our commander-on-the-cheap, George W. Bush).

You're right, Pat Tillman did not want to be singled out as special -- but his country need to single him out. Perhaps his final service to his country is to be singled out as -- unlike so many in pro sports -- a real role model.

Sorry, but you have not convinced me. I still don't see where giving up a 3.6 million dollar contract to serve your country has any more value than giving up a 15K/year job to serve when that is all you have. Yes it is an all volunteer service, and your economic situation may hold some sway over you're decision, but you still volunteer, giving up everything you have. In this situation I see no difference between 3.6 mil and 15k, or zero for that matter.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Go easy. While I appreciate your support, sdfernando's entitled to his opinion, and I respect his egalitarianism -- even where I feel it's misapplied.

Perhaps I'm not going about this right...I just get worked up sometimes, especially in these trying times.

I don't have a problem with Pat T if that is what you think. I do admire what he did, just as I admire all who volunteer. I may have even followed in my fathers steps and like my two brothers, volunteered for service when I was 18. But it seems the service doesn't want me because I'm gay.

No I don't have a problem with Pat, I have a problem with the media virtually ignoring all the other soldiers who have given up everything they had to serve and die. They deserve as much respect, honor and attention as Pat is getting, no more, but certainly no less.

And thanks for repecting my opinions, just as I respect your own.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

"The Utterly Un-lonesome Death of Pat Tillman"

Link:
http://www.counterpunch.org/zirin04292004.html

(snip)
Sports fans and scribes aren't the mindless patriots that the White House, and much of the left, believes. The public parade of “Dead Tillman” can breed a variety of reactions. Nationally renowned - and ceaselessly apolitical - sports columnist Mike Lupica wrote, "Pat Tillman got to live out his professional dreams for a little while. What about all the ones dying over there who didn't?" The ESPN show the Sports Reporters show commented, "The White House has no right to say anything about the death of Tillman since it doesn't want to show pictures of the dead. They can't have it both ways."

In fact, on what is possibly the most frat boy drenched Sports Radio show, "The Jungle With Jim Rome" one caller identified himself as an ex-soldier from Arizona and said, "The President needs to take a long look in the mirror and try to figure out if this is worth it." He then paused and said, "War to no one. Fight for peace."

Pat Tillman played football with a relentless intensity. Wait for the look on Bush's face when the folks who cheered for Pat, fight with that same intensity against the war that took his life.
(snip)

:nuke:

During the Vietnam war era, Nixon supposedly commented that when he learned that on college campuses "the pom-pom girls were joining the demonstrations" he knew he was in big trouble.


Hint, hint, Monkey-boy.

:nuke:

I'm Catholic, but my husband is an unbaptized agnostic/atheist, depending on his mood. If I outlive him I will not have a religious service for him -- it would be disrespectful to his memory. It is disrespectful to any non-believer's memory to remember them in a church.

Conversely, he has already said he will have a Catholic mass said for me, in the event he outlives me -- and he's promised to attend it.

I give a shit about the guy.

And not just cause he underlined Emerson! (though that helps)

And, yes, it's a sad loss.

I really didn't know that much about Pat Tillman, except that he was a football player. I agree with the writer of this article. You must challenge yourself.

It's very easy to jump to conclusions or race to embrace a stereotype. It's harder to collect information, reflect on it and develop a more informed opinion.

Pat Tillman was a complex human being. He volunteered to serve his country. It seems to me he was also trying to understand his place in the world. He was well read, and based on this article, inquisitive.

I have a new point of view about Tillman. One that helps strengthens my resolve about the importance of the election this November.

We'll never know what might have become of him because as his brother artfully said, "He's f -- ing dead."

RIP, Pat.

Thats what I would put on his gravestone.

What a guy!

of this life and choose his exit. Who's to know what internal ravings were haunting him.