Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

BBV: Making it to the NYT editorial page..

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:28 PM
Original message
BBV: Making it to the NYT editorial page..


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/29/opinion/29SUN3.html?ex=1079061909&ei=1&en=e3a4b546a5d97be1

MAKING VOTES COUNT: EDITORIAL OBSERVER
The Results Are in and the Winner Is . . . or Maybe Not
By ADAM COHEN

Rob Behler isn't saying Max Cleland's Senate seat was stolen by rigged electronic voting machines, but he insists it could have been. Mr. Behler, who helped prepare Georgia's machines for the 2002 election, says secret computer codes were installed late in the process. Votes "could have been manipulated," he says, and the election thrown to the Republican, Saxby Chambliss.

Charlie Matulka, who lost to Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska the same year, does not trust the results in his election. Most of the votes were cast on paper ballots that were scanned into computerized vote-counting machines, which happen to have been manufactured by a company Mr. Hagel used to run. Mr. Matulka, suspicious of Senator Hagel's ties to the voting machine company, demanded a hand recount of the paper ballots. Nebraska law did not allow it, he was informed. "This is the stealing of our democracy," he says.

Defeated candidates who think they were robbed are nothing new in American politics. But modern technology is creating a whole new generation of conspiracy theories — easy to imagine and, unless we're careful, impossible to disprove. The nation is rushing to adopt electronic voting, but there is a disturbing amount of evidence that, at least in its current form, it is overly vulnerable to electoral mischief.

Among the growing ranks of electronic-voting skeptics, Mr. Cleland's loss in 2002 and Mr. Hagel's wins in 1996 and 2002 have taken on mythic status. There is no evidence the wrong man is in the Senate today. The problem is, there is no way to prove the right man was elected, either.

Mr. Cleland's loss was, some say, a surprise. He was said to be leading in the polls before Election Day, but ended up losing decisively. Many political observers attribute his loss to President Bush's strong support for Mr. Chambliss, and attack ads picturing Senator Cleland with Osama bin Laden. But others are suspicious of the new voting machines in Georgia.

In the summer of 2002, Mr. Behler was in a Georgia warehouse, helping prepare thousands of machines for the coming election. He says there were constant problems with the hardware and software, and growing pressure as the election drew near.

Three times while he was there, he says, Diebold, the voting machine manufacturer, sent "patches" — updates in the programming — to be installed on the machines. Later, he says, he heard of a fourth. Bev Harris, an electronic-voting critic who runs www.blackboxvoting.org and is a controversial figure in the elections world, says there were eight. Diebold and Georgia insist there was only one patch, which Diebold says was added "prior to the election, but not last minute."

The Georgia machines do not produce a paper record voters can inspect to ensure a vote was correctly cast. But Georgia says they go through three testing levels, including an outside body that certifies the software. When patches are added late, however, there may not be time for certifying them. Georgia officials concede the one patch they admit to was given only a partial examination by an outside certifying body.

Ms. Harris argues the patches could have turned Cleland votes into Chambliss votes. "You can put in dynamic files that self-destruct after the election," she says. "There would be no evidence."

snip

And every voter should see a paper receipt. This "voter-verified paper trail" should be retained, and made available for recounts — a low-tech check on the reliability of electronic voting. Most Americans would not do business with a bank that refused to provide written statements or A.T.M. receipts. We should be no less demanding at the polls.

After all, as Tom Stoppard has observed, "It's not the voting that's democracy, it's the counting."



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Isn't it sweet.
and to think...it all started with 18181 votes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. About BLOODY TIME...
that the NYT mentions Bev. They have avoided crediting her for almost a year.

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
http://www.plan9.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. Right on Bev and Andy!
Great job! :toast: :evilgrin:

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thanks Pat...
but pat yourself on the back too. This was a true Grassroots team effort.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks Andy,.....
......Each of us makes an impression with every phone call, letter and e-mail we send to our representatives. Small groups of us working together are starting to make a dent. It's the true leaders like you and Bev 'taking the point' on the issue, informing and inspiring others to get involved, that will ultimately make the difference! :)

Keep fighting the good fight out there on the front lines, secure in the knowledge that we're here on the supply lines offering backup and support, and that our ranks are growing by the day.

Stay safe, see ya soon! :toast: :evilgrin:

Lucky for California, We're gonna get a visit! We're gonna get a visit! :bounce:

:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. must read piece
I posted this in the morning, but as usual with my posts, it dropped like a rock.

thanks for putting it in sight again!

p.s. your amazing bush* quote threads are a GREAT resource for my 'political revue' - you don't have to write jokes as long as a tape recorder is running anytime he opens his mouth!

<<will thread-kill for food>>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-29-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kick
Don't matter who ya vote for, what matters is who counts your vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Some day.....
...they're going to quit using the term "Conspiracy Theorist" for anyone who finds questionable goings on in the process, or that term is going to become a badge of honor for those who figured out something was wrong first.

Putting that label on anyone who questions the marketed "reality," is going to backfire as those questions become truths. Then what label are they going to use?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. "what label are they going to use?"
fact checkers?

patriots?

reality buffs
?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. TruthIsAll
Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.


Thank you


DU Moderator
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. I had a chance to talk to Max Cleland about 2 weeks ago
and asked him about BBV--asked him straight out whether he thought he had been beaten by Saxby Shameless or Wally O'Dell, and he adamantly denied that the machines had anything to do with his loss. He attributed everything to the Confederate Flag issue & Bush's campaigning for Shameless.

I think Max might be very wrong on this issue, but I thought it important to report it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Cleland is on the list of people who supposedly contributed to the 1990 ..
...certification standards, the ones that are so bad. I don't know if he was a figurehead or had input. Those standards did not even come close to meeting common industry standards for security.

Maybe he feels he has to uphold the machines and therefore, uphold the standards?

Or is there another card in the deck we don't see?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. This is an interesting statement....
"is there another card in the deck we don't see?"

My thoughts exactly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I don't think any of the GA Dems are clean
Exactly what it is they're protecting isn't clear.

Or, it could easily be a strong case of denial. After all, Georgia's favorite Dem, Cathy Cox, was the mastermind behind this clusterfuck. And who would think SHE would do anything wrong? Or stupid? Or incompetent?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. A dishonest, inept, ignorant politician?
Oh, how you talk. <s>

David Allen
Publisher, CEO, Janitor
Plan Nine Publishing
http://www.plan9.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Isn't Cathy Cox eyeing the Gov spot?
and isn't she related to the family that owns the AJC?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 21st 2024, 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC