"People in Bush's position, in government leadership, lie all the time."

who can speak with more authority on this subject than Daniel Ellsberg?



the above is a quote from an extraordinary Salon interview from Thursday...didn't see it here anywhere; if dupe, sorry

"The Salon Interview: Daniel Ellsberg
Like John Kerry, he returned from the Vietnam War to become one of its most famous opponents. Now the man who leaked the Pentagon Papers blasts the Bush camp's "obscene" attack on Kerry's patriotism."

some snips:

SALON: The Republicans are attacking Kerry now for betraying his fellow Vietnam veterans by condemning the war after he returned…

DE: They are? Amazing! I don't even like to hear this. It makes me gag. Is this something new, I haven't heard about this? This is just obscene. I hate to hear this. The fact is that Kerry's group, the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, upheld the honor of this country.

snip

DE: As I said, this is making my flesh crawl, to hear George Bush, who went into the National Guard to stay out of Vietnam, even though he supposedly supported the war ...

SALON: Yes, not only did he support the war, but he thought the U.S. should have fought it harder ...

DE: You mean he wanted those other guys to fight it even harder. He wanted his fellow airmen, who were not in the National Guard, but in the Air Force, to put themselves much more at risk in killing people in North Vietnam, dodging SAMs , while he dodged his monthly duties in Alabama in an outfit that was preparing for war in Europe, should that arise.

And of course he's at one with virtually all of the neocons in that respect. Cheney had "other priorities" during Vietnam and apparently spent the war in a secure location somewhere, I guess in Arizona. Rumsfeld had indeed flown in the Air Force in the 1950s, so no lack of courage there, just to fly those planes takes courage. But I noticed that Rumsfeld, who's exactly my age, did not manage to use his military training in any way in Vietnam. He was too old presumably to go there as a flyer. But there were lots of jobs for him in Vietnam if had wanted, but he chose to sit out the war back here.

much, much more, including lessons we should have/didn't learn from Vietnam, WRT our current incarnation as international pariahs.

I wonder if the Kerry campaign is aware of this story.

you need one of those stupid day passes....be patient

he pulls no punches, and I'm sure he'd eat ANY of those chickenhawks, OR their apologists alive

seriously, who has the moral authority he does? he laid it on the line......he'd have spent YEARS in prison had Nixon not been so stupid as to sabotage his own prosecution of Ellsberg with the idiotic plumbers' break-in

I marched in DC last year in the Viet Vets against war demo

they let Ellsberg out of DC jail to be in that

he was on CSPAN with some very articulate vets the day before, talking about the huge cuts about to be "administered" to the VA.

We spent some time listening to speeches in front of the VA building, a few blocks from our house at 1600.

very inspiring, but saddening at the same time: Code Pink moms with kids in Iraq, WWII vets, Korean War Vets, lots of Viet Vets. lots of kids, too.

there was a counter-demonstration with Bob Livinstone and Dornan at the steps of the Lincoln memorial; VERY sparsely attended