The Ground Just Shifted--Kerry Needs to Get on Top of This (nervous)

3 things happened/or are scheduled to happen in the next 24 hours. Quite frankly, I'm very concerned about this.

First the Madrid bombings happened which put Bush and terrorism back on the front page (where Rove needs it). The media (a.k.a. the propaganda arm of this regime)overnight became organsmic in its op eds praising the steadfastness of the Bush doctrine and emphasizing the standard "democrats are weak on defense and will have you and your children dead in your beds". (No mention that the Iraq invasion launced these attacks against people who sided with us). I was nauseated at the extent of this predictable response as the media got the opening they so desired. But now there are 2 events scheduled for the next 24 hour or so period.

Apparently Bush is addressing the nation tomorrow night (I believe that's the scheduled time period) because it's the first anniversary of the Iraq War (that bloodsport that so turns on America of killing those ugly foreigners who have different skin color and don't love JeeesUs). That, according to CNN, is to be followed by the presentation and explanation of nuclear "stuff" (the ancient pieces of crap they found a year ago) that according to CNN is being flown out of Iraq as we speak!! Folks, that means that a whole mess of our ignornant population will believe in a few short hours that Bush FOUND the WMDS and they were NUKES.

Kerry has to get on top of this. I know their campaign is to immediately counteract any blasts from Bush. But, damn it, they better have a strategy to counteract the daily news. It's amazing how as Bush launches attack ads on Kerry and at the time he goes into the 1 year anniversary of his glorious war, that coincidentally the terrorists strike yet again--just like three years worth of coincidences. We are playing with evil. Kerry needs to get a handle on this. Perhaps he can point out that these attacks mean we need to get international cooperation across the board to get the bastards; but because of Bush's pre-emptive strike based on lies, he's ruined our chances for that cooperation and thus, we need someone new to bring the nations of the world together to fight this plight that was let loose by the Bush administraion. Or whatever....we need to get on this one or Bush is going to wipe our asses from here to November!!...mark my word. I now can also see the way in which they intend to fight (call it tinfoil hat; but no one has these many very timely coincidences).

When he's talking. The blowback is getting fierce. These issues are no longer working for him. Al Qaeda just attacked one of his major allies -- this was interpreted by the Spanish electorate as a failure of the "War on Terrah."

I don't think it helps him.



http://www.wgoeshome.com

that is not the message they are pumping into this country. That's what makes me sick. The media is glorifying him and using it as "now maybe the rest of those ugly foreigners who opposed the war will realize that our great President is right"......notice it's the line being pumped by Tony the Whore??? It's one thing that people of the world can see through this shit; but it isn't the propaganda picture show here for the electorate. That's what scares me. And don't underestimate what the hell his idot speech and his "nuke" pieces shit are going to do with that few percentage of people here and there that will give this slime the election. Kerry has to figure this out and fast.

Maybe you should switch channels. Am not seeing this played the way you are seeing it.

They can spin till they are even dizzier and it ain't gonna help now. Bush is in deep doo doo.

a major blow to * and his foreign policies. Spain voters rejected their current administration because they supported the US on Iraq

it's very obvious...we need to demand that he NOT be permitted to use this..If this was Bill, they'd have him in court..or, is he listening to "dirty jokes".

the talkings heads today?

After the polls closed, even FOX changed their message.

Any phony WMD announcement out of Iraq is going to be heavily scrutinized. And, meanwhile, Bush has a big problem on his hands, given that the Spanish people just booted Aznar's party from power.

I'm beginning to think the average person finally wised up to the "this time we've REALLY found some badddd weapons---really, really, really--look, there's concrete pipes, no, trailers, no, well there's something that, trust us, proves that they had weapons" lines.

No, no, really this time. They mean it.

elections when I posted this. Been sick with flu all afternoon. As I just posted on Pitt's thread of this election results in Spain and how it was because they blame this association of Spain with Bush in the Iraq War:-- Yes, yes, yes. Do you realize what an important juncture this is?? It's the direct assertion that Bush's FAKE war caused them to be victims. It's a "fuck you message" to be heard in Great Britain and around the world. It's what's going to get people in those nations after the balls of these goddamn Bush ass kissers. It's poltical death time for these knee jerk leaders. AND, it's one ugly fucker for Bush---now, goddamn it Kerry, get out there and play it for everything it's worth. Tell America we need international cooperation to get terror under control but because of Bush' lying, fake war, we have turned the whole world against us. GO with this Kerry, GO. Don't do the damn usual "we have to support our president crap".

The crusade is popular with the voting class, and while Kerry's plan to share the war loot with more countries in exchange for expendable crusaders might not be as popular with the voters in those countries as he would hope, it is the American voters he needs to replace bush as helmsman of the battleship.

Kerry has never played the "we gotta support our pres" bit. What are you talking about, and is there a link?

And that position seems to be working well for him. He should stick with it.

Bush: Let's go into Iraq, because there are WMDs... er... there are atrocities being committed right now... er... he tried to kill my Daddy!

Kerry: Let's keep a presence in Iraq, because otherwise it'll deteriorate into civil war, and the only people who want that are the type of people we just got finished kicking out of Afghanistan.

Yeah, those are the same exact positions alright.

to you than to an Iraqi mother holding her legless child.

But then she can't vote, so it's all good, right?

So let's pull out, let everybody in the country fight it out, so more mothers will have more legless children, all because it's a different policy from what Bush did!

Lay the burden down.

That's so cool... we can just fuck up countries, and bear absolutely no responsibility in the aftermath.

If there is a sincere desire to "help," write a blank check to the Red Cross. The Iraqis are actually quite clever people. Some of them can even read and write a little, and some historians have posited theories that they may have had a civilization a smidge longer than Europeans have used tools.

Lay the burden down, sahib.

The fact of the matter is that there are three ethnic groups in Iraq, all of which pretty much hate each other. The radical elements in each group would love to take out the other two.

Once we leave, barring the unlikely event of a nationalist coming to power that can unite the country, the situation will degenerate into chaos.

"Just getting out" worked so well in Africa, didn't it? I hear the Congo is doing just fine ever since Belgium "just got out."

I'm not saying we should stay there forever, which may be the source of our disagreement (though I doubt it). Maybe my view of fairness is warped, but when my country wreaks havoc upon another country, I tend to think that my country has an obligation to stick around and help out.

we kill your wife, we break your grandma's legs, we beat up your kids, cut the dog's ears off, steal your stuff and trash the place.

Then we tie what's left of the family up in a mud pit in the back yard and announce that we're moving in to help you out and make sure you run your home the way we feel is best.

You'll be really pleased?

While temporarily insane, you burn down my house. Having regained your sanity, you realize the horror of what you've done, and help rebuild. I still wouldn't like you, but I'd respect that you were at least trying to make it right.

Or another example, this time emphasizing the civil war aspect.

I live in an apartment complex, with a bunch of other people. Some I get along with, but some I absolutely despise. There's a super that keeps control over the building, but he gouges us for rent, comes into our apartments with no warning, and is generally a horrible super. So, these guys from a real estate company come to town, and they hate the super - they had dealings in the past, and the super tried to drive their company out of business, and just generally made an ass of himself. So this one guy, running the company, hires some goons - they beat up the super within an inch of his life, and destroy a significant part of the complex, including my apartment.

So, naturally, I'm pissed at this company. Now chaos is reigning in the complex - the residents I get along with are vandalizing the property of the other residents and vice versa. Sure, life sucked under the previous ruler, but at least there was some order rather than just anarchy.

The company fires the old boss, and replaces him with a much less assholish one - he's not perfect, but he's a hell of a lot better. This new boss decides the company has an obligation to help out the complex, since its current state of chaos was a direct result of the companies actions.

How would I feel? I'd still be pissed off, but less so - at least they're trying to make things right.

So they run the complex for a while - get the vandalism under control, get a new and better super to run the place, and sell.

I'd say that's the best thing the company can do in that case.

is write a blank check to every non US/UN affiliated NGO and take their crusaders and their commercial soldiers and their interrogators and their death squads and their snipers and their covert operatives and security consultants and their oil thieves and their weapons and leave. go. exit. depart.

The main problem in Iraq is that their is a brutish pariah state occupying it, stealing its resources and maiming and killing its people.

I understand that this would mean less revenues for many defense and energy companies. However, it would also mean that you have a better chance of reaching a ripe old age and your grandchildren have a better chance of A) being born, and B) living in a place that does not resemble Rwanda.

And it also might buy the US a little bit of time if continued sovereignty is a concern.

Right now, it may appear that the rest of the world's nations are content to sit on their hands while their citizens are kidnapped and disappeared off to one or the other of the US's various "facilities," and wait quietly for the bombs to buzz over THEIR capitals.

However, I can assure you that that is not a good long-term bet.

is write a blank check to every non US/UN affiliated NGO and take their crusaders and their commercial soldiers and their interrogators and their death squads and their snipers and their covert operatives and security consultants and their oil thieves and their weapons and leave. go. exit. depart.

I'd forgotten why the right-wing successfully casts the Democratic party as being "anti-military." Then I read posts like this. I'm glad to know that you think the men and women that were forced over into Iraq, as much victims of this war as any other, are simply evil arms of the United States government. I just wrote a response talking about the demonization of enemies... your response falls into this category.

Now to the actual point made behind the disgusting rhetoric - how would giving money to NGOs prevent a civil war?

However, it would also mean that you have a better chance of reaching a ripe old age and your grandchildren have a better chance of A) being born, and B) living in a place that does not resemble Rwanda.

Interesting that you bring up Rwanda, since it was US non-action that allowed the genocide to happen. I suppose that was OK with you, because US action would have been occupation by a "brutal pariah state?"

The ones who haven't been 'liberated' from breathing yet, anyway. Or liberated from coherent thought in the various "interrogation facilities."

Every person makes his or her own decisions, and bears responsibility for his or her own actions. That includes every crusader in Iraq, and it includes the individual who chooses to obey the order to harm you and your family, as well as the individual who gives it.

Western imperialism and colonization has a long history of being more popular with the perpetrators than with the victims.

The notion that the Majority World is the property of the west, more recently the US in particular, is quite deeply ingrained, so much so that it is impossible for many Americans to conceive of their country doing anything anywhere except occupation and invasion.

You might want to read up on the history of what is now called "Iraq." The country itself is a product of previous Anglo-American map-carving for fun and profit, an honor it shares with quite a few places.

Lay the burden down.

They've lost friends and family already, whereas I have not. However, I'm sure the members of DU who have family and friends over there would be real happy to know that you feel that way about their loved ones.

The notion that the Majority World is the property of the west, more recently the US in particular, is quite deeply ingrained, so much so that it is impossible for many Americans to conceive of their country doing anything anywhere except occupation and invasion.

That's quite a logical leap of faith you have going, there. Nowhere do I assume that the "Majority World is the property of the west."

My reason for thinking that the troops should remain in Iraq is the same as the the reason I supported our intervention in Kosovo - I think it's the best choice out of our options to minimize human suffering.

We tried what you seem to be suggesting, sitting out of world events, after World War I... it didn't work to well.

You might want to read up on the history of what is now called "Iraq." The country itself is a product of previous Anglo-American map-carving for fun and profit, an honor it shares with quite a few places.

Indeed it is, and that's why I'm worried about a civil war, causing even more people to be "liberated," to use your words. Iraq isn't a nation-state; it's three nations randomly assorted into one state.

Arundhati Roy

http://www.hindu.com/2004/01/18/stories/2004011800181400.htm

First - perhaps you'd like to actually address the substance of my posts?

Second - how exactly does posting a one liner that is nothing more than a logical fallacy consist of a logical argument?

Third - I'm no imperialist. I don't want the US to absorb countries and make them territories. I'd just like to see the power we have, left over from the Cold War, used to improve the human condition. To be perfectly honest, your position seems like the "I've got mine, so fuck you" attitude - Americans should be happy with what they have, and not seek to improve the lot of others.

On edit: changed content without changing title

that is their job, right? I don't mean to disparage any troops that are there and wish for all a safe return, but I don't think it correct to say Bush "forced" the military--they signed up and no one forced them. They are being used that is for certain and by a coward of a Commander in Chief and they are being used to slaughter others, get their stuff and take over the country so Halliburton can make billions and billions. It is costing us, the tax payer, enormous amounts of money to finance this slaghter, besides

I say get em out--everything they are doing in Iraq now is for the sheer profit of American businesses. I am not with kerry on that one, even though it does sound sober and compassionate. There will be a puppet American government there and continued military involvement. If the country's tribal factions fight it out, well let them--it will come to that, I am certain, anyhow, as the incometent Bush puts a puppet regime in there as promised. If we pull out now, at least our troops will be spared.

Guardsmen and reservists didn't sign up for this.

If the country's tribal factions fight it out, well let them

That would just cause more civilian casualties - I thought that was certain posters were so outraged over.

to Shock and Awe their enemies innocent civilians and drop a million bombs on their heads killing thousands at a clip.
Sure they do

They have nothing but rifles. We had mega bombs by the thousands and we dropped them mericlessly on civilians. Aussie pilots refues orders forty times because civilians were on the target.

If they must fight each other for the power then let them have a civil war. They will, even if a puppet is installed, do that anyhow, I think, sooner or later. We cannot control that and further I do not think we want to. We want to get their stuff.That is waht it all was about.

It is not the same as a rich and wealthy foreign country making up lies to assuage greed and invade the country and take it's spoils and kill ten thousand civilians as part of the bargain.

and send out royalty checks to every Iraqi man women and child. If they did that, it might help. But they won't because" that's not the American way". They hate the Indians here for doing that. That's why their always attacking Indian gaming. They hate giving people money they didn't work for. Unless it's them of course.

The U.S is now also stealing from the house they built after paying all their friends to build it.

I'm assuming that Bush gets kicked out of office (remember, in my example, the old boss was fired).

or you can listen to any of his speeches on the subject.

...I guess you don't have any.

He is also on TV frequently lately speaking on that and other subjects. You can get all the quotes you want from his speeches and from his website. It has all been pasted on here countless times.

...post the quotes of which you speak or back off the topic.

Your choice.

This is more evidence of the worldwide fiasco of the Bush administration. This is proof that he has NOT been effective in dealing with Al Qaeda. This is proof that the world is turning against us because of the cockamamie Iraq invasion.

Then again, I'm still confused that 9/11 is seen as some great achievement of this administration, rather than a colossal failure. Now's the time to frame Failure for what it is.

...and why would he start now?

According to the BBC News Hour which did 20 minutes in the Spanish election... the Socialists were constantly running behind in the polls. If there was a strong anti-war sentiment... why didn't it show up there?

What changed were the bombings... a reaction that the government lied blaming ETA... and that the support of the Iraq war made Spain a Al Quida target.

None the less.... I'm quite happy that the current government got their butts kicked.

I don't see how the Madrid bombings help that argument. Is he really going to be on the networks or just on cable.

When the mis-informed voters think that the US gov't is
Superman Jesus In a Cowboy Hat, mad bombers only help to deify
Sheriff Bush*.

TV Nation doesn't see 9/11 or Saddam or Madrid as his failings even though they are.

Sad, but true. Kerry has a lot of work to do to show that all this is failure, not Strong Protective Father-ism.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

of the Spanish people by supporting Bush*'s Iraq fiasco...

In a democracy, when you do that, you usually end up losing....

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he deserved to lose, and there is no other way to spin it...

the terrorists...the terrorists lose...

...nobody has any concrete evidence as to who did the bombings except a van filled with stuff that was conveniently left behind to cast blame on Al Qaeda.

Rove? To make sure Spain ousted bush and installed a socialist regime?

I don't buy that angle.

But with the opposite effect in mind. He probably thought that the Spanish electorate could be scared into keeping Anzar in power.

...and Spain could very easily have been one of those.

how will we ever get anyone to help us with Iraq? I was hoping that with a Kerry/Clark ticket they could get the international community to give us support in Iraq. Now maybe even Kerry won't be able to do that. This is really bad for America. Yes, bad for Bush...and bad for us too. How many of our soldiers will have to die because of Bush? How much money is it going to cost our Nation.........?

I recall that he was the one who called the UN irrelevant and couldn't give UN inspectors the chance to validate that Iraq was clean of WMD.

Bush could have harnessed the world's unity and anger to deal with AQ after 9/11. Instead, he used that event to start the neocon "Pax Americanna" and create a senseless war with a secular country. Yes, the US will suffer, but put the blame squarely where it rests....with the unelected fraud.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-usweek0315,0,6231863.story?coll=ny-li-big-pix

He's going on the offensive about the issue, but he's not coming out with new proof that WMDs were found. He's just outlining existing proof about that.

1) No, the terror attacks in Spain will not affect anyone's thinking in the U. S. If it doesn't happen on American soil, it barely creates a blip on the radar screen. The NeoCons have lied so much that very few people are taking them seriously anymore.

2) No, once again, the NeoCons have lied about this subject so many times that even if they found REAL WMDs nobody would believe them.

3) Why would the Kerry team not be preparing a response to this topic as they have to every other topic to date?

Finally, a word of advice...worry about things that have actually happened, otherwise you'll drive yourself and others crazy if you don't.

..not Iraq.

Bush* talking about the "woor on tar"? Who gives a fuck. I've heard the same speech like....1,000 times.

Don't be so paranoid!

This HURTS Bush.

Here's something from WillPitt: "The reasons Aznar’s government wanted to see the attacks connected to ETA instead of al Qaeda were found in the streets of Spain by the thousands on the Saturday after the bombs went off. Madrid was awash with protesters demanding answers from Aznar as to who was responsible. They thronged the streets holding signs reading ‘Paz,’ and carried a banner reading ‘Your War, Our Corpses.’ If the attacks could be connected to ETA, the resulting fury would be directed towards the Basque separatists. If the attack was perpetrated by al Qaeda, however, that fury would roar towards Aznar himself."

...

"Two days. That was all it took for the people of Spain to become impatient, to pressure their government for the truth. When they did not get it, they threw that government out on it’s ear. For America, a nation approaching the 1,000th day in which their government has not provided the truth of September 11th, this is a lesson to be taken deeply to heart."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1231483


And here's a voice from Spain:

"Aznar got his war, but we got the dead," said Victoria Ruiz, 38, a Socialist Party helper at the polling station. She said Spain's involvement in Iraq had given al-Qa'eda a reason to attack it. "Now I am frightened. Al-Qa'eda is not like Eta, it's like a ghost. You don't know who you're fighting."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x422241

So you see, this could go either way. It could really hurt Bush when people remember how Bush isn't even going after the terrorists - he's going after oilfields instead. (When the book "House of Bush House of Saud" comes out Sunday, everyone's gonna be asking why Bush authorized the 9/12 Bin Laden Family Airlift.)

Don't you see it, can't you see? Terrorism is still a threat, but Bush has done such a great job with homeland defense that we can't be hurt anymore. Other countries, like Spain are still weak on defense, and terrorists can strike there.

--
The above spin is why I think LIHOP, or MIHOP is a reasonable explanation for the attacks in Spain.

From the new World Media Watch....

1//The Scotsman Sun 14 Mar 2004

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=294252004



IRAQ WAR PREPARATION WAS A ‘SHAMBLES’

Brian Brady, Westminster Editor


The British campaign in Iraq was crippled by "shambolic" preparations that led directly to the deaths of servicemen in the field, a damning report by MPs will declare this week.

The extensive review - which represents the most damaging criticism yet of the war - finds that defence chiefs committed a raft of planning blunders and mistakes in the lead-up to war, leaving their troops hopelessly exposed to attack.

The MPs conclude that their failures led directly to the death of at least one British serviceman - tank commander Steven Roberts, who was shot dead during a riot after he had been forced to give up crucial ceramic plates from his body armour.

The report, written by Westminster’s Labour-dominated Defence Committee, is published this week on the eve of the first anniversary of last year’s strikes on Iraq.
MORE

and


3//The Australian March 15, 2004

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8966909%255E2702,00.html



KEELTY CONTRADICTS PM ON IRAQ LINK

By Martin Chulov, Steve Lewis and Patricia Karvelas

The nation's police chief, Mick Keelty, has contradicted a key government claim – that the terrorist threat against Australia had not been increased by its decision to commit troops to Iraq.

In the wake of the Madrid bombings, Mr Keelty also echoed an assessment from other national security chiefs that terrorists would strike at Australia.



Mr Howard and his senior ministers have strongly denied that the Government's support for the US-led campaign in Iraq had increased the security threat to Australia.



But Mr Keelty, in a television interview yesterday, suggested a direct link between the train bombings in Madrid and Spain's involvement with the US-led coalition in Iraq.



"The reality is, if this turns out to be Islamic extremists responsible for this bombing in Spain, it's more likely to be linked to the position that Spain and other allies took on issues such as Iraq," Mr Keelty told the Nine Network's Sunday program.

MORE

I think his cutesy southern charm is wearing thin. I don't expect more than a 2 point bounce in the polls. Plus nobody but "the faithful" believe a word he says anymore. They just tune him out. There's also that anti-war protest next weekend. We might see signs that say, 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. That will fix his ass. His, I'm the hero of 9/11, routine is totally wearing thin. Especially with the families. The funny thing is the WH genius's haven't even noticed that at all. Bushco is a lot dumber and more incompetent than anyone suspects.

I've had an Edwards sticker on my car for about six months. I had to shuffle cars in the driveway and left my car on the street overnight. When I went out the next day, someone had knifed one of my tires.

I don't keep my car on the street anymore. I still have my Edwards sticker. (I wrote in "Vice" next to President.) I'll be adding a Kerry sticker as soon as I get one.

Edit: Sorry. Somehow I posted to the wrong thread. I was sure I had the right one. As Roseanne Rosannadana says, "Nevermind."