So all the people who think Gore didn't fight, think Davis should quit

Everyday on DU I can read several posts about how we didn't fight in Florida, Gore was too gentlemanly, he wasn't tough enough, Lieberman sold out and on and on and on.
Now in California we have a governor who may not be doing well in the polls..nevermind that he has NOT YET campaigned against the recall and no one ELSE has campaigned for governor, but all of a sudden DAVIS SHOULD FOLD even though we FAULT AL GORE FOR FOLDING???


Is there anyone who can explain the basis for their faulty reasoning?

Is there anyone who can honestly say that they are not posting this out of anything but fear? (but for opportunistic disruptors and a couple Camejo fans)

My sentiments are as follows.
If you LIVE in California and fear the recal...GET OFF YOUR ASS!

If you don't live in California..odds are very strong that YOUR STATE WENT FOR BUSH while you sat on your ass and I didn't so I don't take kindly to plays called from the cheap seats.

You are singing to the choir regarding the whole Florida fiasco and our fairly elected president.

Talk about leaving our guy stranded. Makes me fume.....

So what are we doing up so late?

:)

but I am on the same page..BTW when did Sanchez say anything? I hadn't seen a comment from her but did see Boxer's statement.

and Davis unlike Gore (not putting Gore down, just a fact he never took the office of President) has been in the office for almost 5 years and there was no dispute about the vote being to close to call.

and that is that those in CA have a greater stake in this than we dispassionate observers from Red states. But I think that stopping the recall would be my highest goal because with the way voting machines are tampered with these days you can't trust the vote to be legitimate. I smell a rat.

But if you really believe in keeping Davis, ok, I respect that.

I don't "sit on my ass" simply because I live in a red state either. I'm active in my local party. But you can't persuade everyone when you live in a state where it's ok for first cousins to marry.

I do realize I share space with activists but for the most part that isn't the case.

It isn't so much keeping Davis as STANDING united. I think there are SERIOUS legal challenges to this election and it would be insane to say OK you win until those challenges are addressed.

Be that as it may I am NOT saying there should be NO Dem candidate on the ballot but the ballot itself is becoming a free for all.

I think there are serious state constitutional issues with the idea that anyone should RUN to replace Davis. Another lawyer on DU ( who practices -which I don't-disagrees with me on that point) but there is a case already filed Byrnes V. Bustamante which addresses my belief that Bustamante has already been elected to replace Davis according to the state constitution.

That the Rethugs were able to game your state's system so easily.
They have put you in a very precarious position and I don't think any of ya'll saw it coming. Grey Davis didn't get unbelievably unpopular last week.
Most polling seems to show the majority of Democrats against Davis.
How do you fight it? You can't give the guy a personality transplant.
The truth seems to be that the large majority of your fellow Californians have lost faith in him as a leader.
I'm a Floridian and 2000 here and the ensuing Bush shitstorm have made me a clear eyed realist.
Run no Democrats and support Davis - on a wing and a prayer.

The entire ENERGY issue has been laid at Davis feet as has the bdget issue. Nevermind that every state in the union is in the red and our state has 36 million people. For that matter, Florida's budget deficit is close to ours but for energy credits we SHOULD get.

Keep in mind that there are 36 million people in California and all they needed to get with Issa's millions were 1.3 millon signatures.

NOW THEY NEED TO GET THE VOTES with Issa a candidate that has NEVER won statewide office, Simon who has never held office and Riordan who is very much a moderate. There WILL NOT be aunited Republican vote if all those names are on the ballot.

Gore's "resignation" only helped Bush.
A Davis resignation would keep power in Dem hands.

I don't know what the polls are showing for the recall, but it is suicidal to stick with a sinking ship, so why not be pragmatic in this case?

you change the equation. There is NO guarantee at this moment that a Davis resignation would keep power in Dem hands.

Secondly both are elected officials being contested under very similar terms so nice creative thinking but not accurate.

The whole recall is a coin toss and a crap shot, and bears NO resemblance to Florida.

In Florida, Gore had a GREAT chance of winning if every vote was counted.

In California, Davis's positives are in the 20's, and those who favor the recall number over 50%, and that number seems to be growing!

In Florida, Republicans broke the law to steal the vote.

In California, Republicans have followed the law, to grab the office.

In Florida, the State Court Judges were appointed mostky by Dems.

In California, the State Court Judges are appointed mostly by Repukes.

In Florida, Gore could save the country from Bush by fighting till the very end.

In California, Davis could hand the State, and possibly the country, to Republicans, by hanging on to the very end.

Please understand, I want to see the Repukes lose this recall. I was a huge Gore fan, and am still bitter over the Florida theft. But this is exactly why I want to see the repukes stymied in California.

If the recall goes to vote (good chance of that happening) we need (yes WE, the country) need Californians to have NO reason to vote in its favor. It is imperitaive that the Republicans do not get in on a plurality.

If Davis resigns, there is a possibility the recall is stopped. If not stopped, there is a great possibility that it would lose all steam and die at the poll. Plus, if Bustamante were acting Governor, do you not think that the Hispanic community would turn out to help him keep the Govs office?

Davis should resign, as hard as that is, for the goodof his state, his party, and the country.

He fought until he had NO AVENUE on which to fight.

I think the guy was a hero.

I also think Grey Davis should stepdown, for a variety a reasons that will all help the Dems in 2004, and have no relation to the Florida theft.

First of all, I do think Gore fought hard. He made a few mistakes, but ultimately when SCOTUS made their decision, he gave it a good night of thought and found that his back was against the wall. What options did he have left? Civil war?

Besides that, though... In the Gore v. Bush thing, the only alternative to Gore winning was that Bush become president.

In the Davis recall situation, if Davis resigns, we don't automatically wind up with the Terminator, the Car Thief, or the Dick as governor. Some think that if he resigns, then the odds of us winding up with one of those DROP, because Dems can then unite behind some other candidate (had he resigned earlier, it would have nipped the whole recall process in the bud, but that's another story).

Personally, I disagree with those who are calling for Davis to resign. I think he needs to stick it out and fight this desperate attempt to undermine democracy.

However, I don't think opposing the recall and supporting a replacement candidate are mutually exclusive. That's where this whole "he should resign" logic comes from in the first place. People thinking there are only 2 choices for Dems: support Davis or support a replacement. Matter of fact, you can do BOTH!

BTW, there is one candidate who has vowed to immediately resign and hand over the reigns to Cruz Bustamente if he's elected. Maybe the "Davis should resign" folks want to look into him.

I try not to thump on Gore too much, but I'm pretty sure you've heard my take on the whole thing.

There's no question for even an instance on this bit of messianic shakedown. I even had to work over a conservative chum today on the subject when he felt it was fair retaliation for the "unfair" way Garry South had cleverly sandbagged Riordon in the primary. It was hard to be civil on that one...

Nope. This is ground that must be stood.

Jeb Bush said "What is this problem Democrats have with voting?"

The question here is: "what's this problem Republicans have with elections?"

Just read some of the posts on the Davis threads.

There are plenty of people here who think Democrats should roll over and take a beating. As long as we look like the nice guys, then who cares if we win or lose.

In politics, winning is everything, but some here are happier to be nice losers. They don't want to stoop to their level just to win. :)

But Davis resigning and Davis taking a beating are NOT the same thing, and using strategy to come out ahead on the national scene, maintain California's Governorship, and embarrass the repukes has nothing to do with playing nice with the Repukes, does it?

... but ultimately, on principle, I've got to oppose the recall effort and that includes opposing Davis' resignation. However, that doesn't stop me from being willing to support a replacement candidate as well. I think of the 2nd half of the ballot as more like a vote for Lt. Governor. I'm voting for Davis for Governor, and if anything happens to him (like he gets recalled), then I want candidate X to replace him.

I don't know why people seem to think the two must be mutually exclusive. Well, I take that back, I do know why. Because the media is framing the issue that why. Why are they framing the issue that way? I don't know, but it seems fishy to me.

Either way, resignation may be a moot point now, anyway. The courts would have to decide, but it seems likely that once the recall election is scheduled, then it's got to move forward.

And, even though moving forward with the recall may be risky, it could also have a big payoff. If Davis just resigned, then it would basically be another Dem running away with his tail between his legs. Republicans may not get the whole state, but they gain some ground and look like the stronger party.

However, if this whole recall is beaten back, then the Republicans will have blown their entire wad, exposed themselves for the shameless powermongers that they are, and be pretty much moot in the politics of the largest state in the nation for years to come. This could be a huge political victory for the Democratic party.

I personally would hope that instead of calling for Davis to resign, people would be out using their energy to get people to oppose the recall altogether.