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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 12:16 AM
Original message
Connect the Dots, America!
Edited on Wed Aug-06-03 01:09 AM by Stephanie
Where's the outrage!

  • PNAC makes a plan to control the ME, and installs a puppet chief exec who will do their bidding.

  • Dick and his oil pals get together in spring 2001 to divvy up the Iraqi oil fields, way before 9/11, way before the "drumbeat for war."

  • PNAC creates it's own private intel agency to conjure up imminent-threat evidence to justify the Iraq invasion.

  • The Bush* admin receives many, many warnings before 9/11, ignores them all, then does everything it can to prevent an investigation. When Congress does investigate, the WH censors the report.

  • And then the wife of the whistleblower who calls them out on their biggest, most outrageous lie, is outed by someone in the White House as an undercover CIA agent.


This goes way beyond mere scandal.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,92372,00.html
Cheney Energy Task Force Documents Detail Iraqi Oil Industry
Friday, July 18, 2003

WASHINGTON — Vice President Dick Cheney's energy task force appeared to have some interest in early 2001 in Iraq's oil industry, including which foreign companies were pursuing business there, according to documents released Friday by a private watchdog group.

Judicial Watch (search), a conservative legal group, obtained a batch of task force-related Commerce Department papers that included a detailed map of Iraq's oil fields, terminals and pipelines as well as a list entitled "Foreign Suitors of Iraqi Oilfield Contracts."

The papers also included a detailed map of oil fields and pipelines in Saudi Arabia and in the United Arab Emirates and a list of oil and gas development projects in those two countries.

The papers were dated early March 2001, about two months before the Cheney energy task force completed and announced its report on the administration's energy needs and future energy agenda.<more>



http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,999737,00.html
The spies who pushed for war
Julian Borger reports on the shadow rightwing intelligence network set up in Washington to second-guess the CIA and deliver a justification for toppling Saddam Hussein by force
Thursday July 17, 2003
The Guardian

As the CIA director, George Tenet, arrived at the Senate yesterday to give secret testimony on the Niger uranium affair, it was becoming increasingly clear in Washington that the scandal was only a small, well-documented symptom of a complete breakdown in US intelligence that helped steer America into war.

It represents the Bush administration's second catastrophic intelligence failure. But the CIA and FBI's inability to prevent the September 11 attacks was largely due to internal institutional weaknesses.

This time the implications are far more damaging for the White House, which stands accused of politicising and contaminating its own source of intelligence.

According to former Bush officials, all defence and intelligence sources, senior administration figures created a shadow agency of Pentagon analysts staffed mainly by ideological amateurs to compete with the CIA and its military counterpart, the Defence Intelligence Agency. <more>



http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1004773,00.html
Don't blame September 11 on spy failures, says report
Gary Younge in New York
Thursday July 24, 2003
The Guardian

Nothing could have been done to stop the terrorist attacks on September 11 even though an FBI informant had contact with two of the suicide hijackers a year before they were carried out, according to a congressional report into intelligence lapses preceding the destruction of the twin towers, to be published today.

But despite objections from some senators a crucial 28 pages of the 900-page report, which criticises Saudi Arabia for its lack of interest in clamping down on Islamist extremists, has been removed from the final document.

Saudi Arabia was home to 15 of the 19 hijackers yet remains a close and important ally of America in the region. The omission of criticism of Saudi Arabia was condemned by the Democratic senator and presidential hopeful, Bob Graham, a former chairman of the joint house and Senate intelligence committee.

"I start from the premise that in a democracy, the people should know as much as the government knows unless there is a very compelling case that the information threatens American security interests," he said. <more>



http://www.nynewsday.com/news/ny-uscia0722,0,2289800.story?coll=nyc-topnews-short-navigation
Columnist Names CIA Iraq Operative
By Timothy M. Phelps and Knut Royce
Washington Bureau
July 21, 2003, 9:48 PM EDT

Washington -- The identity of an undercover CIA officer whose husband started the Iraq uranium intelligence controversy has been publicly revealed by a conservative Washington columnist citing "two senior administration officials."

Intelligence officials confirmed to Newsday Monday that Valerie Plame, wife of retired Ambassador Joseph Wilson, works at the agency on weapons of mass destruction issues in an undercover capacity -- at least she was undercover until last week when she was named by columnist Robert Novak.

Wilson, while refusing to confirm his wife's employment, said the release to the press of her relationship to him and even her maiden name was an attempt to intimidate others like him from talking about Bush administration intelligence failures.

"It's a shot across the bow to these people, that if you talk we'll take your family and drag them through the mud as well," he said in an interview.<more>
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. ~bUMp~
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. well . . .
DUH!
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Seriously?
Too obvious? Because I don't see anyone talking about this, outside of here.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. you're absolutely right
We're through the looking glass.

Political discourse is not about facts, truth, or reality. Instead it is endless hairsplitting about a carefully constructed set of proxy nontruths.

The first of those is that George w. Bush is the President of the USA.

Another is that Islamic terrorists, members of a shadowy organization called al Qaeda, caused 9-11 because they hate America.

Another is that the Bush Administration is waging a War on Terror to bring justice to those who caused 9-11.

All these are untruths, but they are the framework for any mainstream discussion.

How many angels can dance on the head of the 9-11 pin?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. How to combat this?
My very well read, very hip Brooklynite friend today remarked that it's too bad Powell is retiring. She had heard the spin, but not the retort. I reminded her about PNAC, etc., and then she got it. But if SHE isn't getting it, nobody is. What to do?
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. It will take longer to rebuild education in America
Than the four decades it took for the Republicans to destroy public education.

Then, when people are once again able to reason, we need to stop the incessant media-driven shortening of the attention span.

To accomplish either of these will require a revolution every bit as dramatic and far reaching as the First American Revolution.
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. Part of me thinks its hopeless
To educate the ignorant. Maybe all the thinking humans should just create our own virtual international society so we aren't so dependent upon these bullshit institutions.
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soleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #42
81. Do want to have to walk to work?
That's the response I got in Oct. of 2001 from a co worker when I said instead of invading Afganistan, we would get the hell out of the ME.

Many Americans want their oil, and will turn a blind eye to however the powers that be get it for them.

They won't or can't empathize with the people who live in these countries, who watch their children get blown apart, whose rights to their own land and own destinies are dismissed as inconsequential by the PNAC.

Some people think Americans are entitled to the world's resources because they buy into the notion that the US is the beacon of enlightenment and we are better stewards and benevelent freedom fighters, others think we're God's chosen people and God wants us to have the bounty.

How do you change those hearts?
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. kick
kick
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Am I just stating the obvious here? If so, why aren't these stories
all over the front pages and network news? What's the follow-up on Wilson's wife? Seen any follow-up on the energy papers?
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. As I said - "16 words" was a setup of Rove's doing
The media will only report the truth they allow them to. Rove used 16 words to minimize all of Bush's lies into one seemingly insignificant thing.

All of these are as incriminating as the 911 Airline Put options - we never got an answer on that.

Certain bits of dangerous information that ruin the reality that they are creating are off limits.

The press isn't interested in biting the hand that owns them.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I really thought "16 words" was going to be to our advantage
I thought boiling it down to a simple "are these 16 words a lie" would focus the question for the voters, and once they knew the 16 words were a lie, they would take a look at all the other lies.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Last try
:kick:
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. the media can care less about the "dots" ...they have Kobe and gay
priest 7x24 and could nto be happier...rove is having a field day with his puppets.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Tin Foil hat I tell ya
:tinfoilhat:
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Ya have to be pretty naive to call FACTS 'tin foil'....
- The media doesn't connect the dots because they're ordered not to by those who own the media. Journalists who do try to connect the dots have their lives ruined and find that they can no longer work for the RWing dominated 'news' media.

- To understand what's going on you have to accept that a coup took place in 2000.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. How could I accept that a coup took place in 2000
The law is the Law, I lived in Florida for that election, I voted in Alachua county, I KNOW my vote was counted, because I was the only write-in vote for John McCain in the county, and I know the laws of Florida, it was &*^$ty, it was the pits, but it was 100 percent leagal according to the election laws of this country and Florida. No coup occured, no evil empire was forged, the idiot, frat-boy son of a former president ambled into the whitehouse on a technicality, thats all that happened, he didnt have a popular vote, just a 4 presidents befroe him did not have the popular vote, it happens, jsut gotta wait until the next election cycle.

Shalom
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Whew. Can you possibly be more uninformed?
- Start with reading the links provided on this thread. When you're done...read the Constitution and find the part where the Supreme Court can decide elections.

- When you're done with the above...look up the definition of coup d'état.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. What the florida supreme court did was illegal
It cannot overide election law, it is not allowed, the Supreme court did not decide an election it stopped a recount, read the decision. If we keep living in the past, those who oppose the neo-cons will never regain the white house

Shalom
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
69. Didn't decide the election...and yet they stopped the recount.
Your logic is a very strange one...must be from bizzaro Earth. :evilgrin:
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #16
82. Ok, real slow now
nevermind the courts and the hanging chads friend. Let's talk voter rolls. As in way before election 2000.

See, inasmuch as maybe you were right there, apparently this took place right under your nose. Hmmm. Well, anyhow, here's a link to where you can read all about your legal election:

http://gregpalast.com/columns.cfm?subject_id=1&subject_name=Theft%20of%20Presidency

Here you will learn about the 10's of thousands of names that were purged from the rolls long before the election. Show up to vote on election day and be told you cannot vote, you are a felon. Good luck getting that cleared up in time to vote. But don't take my word for it, read the link....

Julie


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BlackRhino Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
110. COME ON!!!
The cherished conservative notion - now conventional wisdom - that Florida election law forced Katherine Harris to declare a winner in Florida within a specific number of days of the election. This seems, at first glance, to be a "fact." You hear it repeated over and over again, so why should you doubt it? After all, it says right there in black and white: "Declare the winner eight days after the election!" It's an open and shut case, right?

Of course not. Nothing is ever really that simple. Truth is, there was NOTHING in Florida election law that prevented that so-called "deadline" from being extended. Over the years, there have been numerous instances where states with similar laws extended this so-called "deadline," for a variety of reasons. Where Florida election law is entirely unambiguous, however, is that it allows for hand recounts.

So therein lies the conflict. How to judge the resolution? Look at it this way: Thanks to the multiple filters of corporate information control, journalistic sloth, a level of public apathy that the elites have spent decades cultivating, and the ever-dwindling American attention span, Katherine Harris (with a little help from the most ideologically doctrinaire Supreme Court in nearly a century) was able to use the excuse of having to stick to an arbitrary, meaningless "deadline" to break Florida's election laws by cutting short an ongoing recount process, subvert the heretofore sacrosanct foundational pillars of American democracy, and plant the crown of ultimate power upon the head of an incompetent and unworthy puppet for The Powers That Be.

Conclusion? They think cleaving to an arbitrary, meaningless technicality of a deadline is more important than making sure the candidate who actually received the most votes wins the election. That's really all you need to know about the "conservative" position on the Florida Election 2000 fiasco.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. BTW thank you for the links, I retract the tin foil comment
to some degree, it will give me something to consider
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I wonder how you would know
that you were the only person who wrote in John McCain in your county???
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. They post the vote counts for everyone on the Supervisor of elections
website, Under the "write-ins" category, there was one "john mccain" that was obviously me.

Shalom :bounce:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. How would you know
that you are the ONLY one who voted for McCain??
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Because there was only ONE vote for john mccain
Sorry didnt clarify, my bad :7
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yes, but how do you know 100 people didn't vote for McCain?
Saying that YOU voted for McCain and ONE vote appeared for McCain doesn't mean anything. Get it?
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Not following
if it says only one write in for John McCain than it means only one write in was registered for jonh mccain and since he was not on the ballot, write in was the only option.
Shalom
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I'm saying you have no way of knowing if that is correct
You say that YOU voted for McCain, and ONE vote for McCain was counted, so you think the process was valid. I'm saying you have no way of knowing whether one person or 100 people voted for McCain. You don't know. If you voted for McCain and NO votes appeared for McCain, then you would have proved that the system did NOT work. But your example proves nothing.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Im sorry for having some trust in my governmental system
nothing is perfect

Shalom
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. THAT's your answer?
You deserve what you get.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Well what am I supposed to do Stephanie
I have to have at least some trust, some beliefe that the poeple I work for are right in some way, why would I even bother to go to the ballot box unless im going to assume that my vote will be counted. There is no reason to take that sort of tone. I have my resons to belive that my vote would be counted thats all.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Sweetheart, why would you assume that?
As a McCain supporter surely you are aware of the dirty tricks used against him by the Bush campaign? Why would you simply trust, why would you make assumptions? If you care about politics, and about this country, as you surely do or you would not be posting on this board, why would you not want to make SURE your vote was counted?

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=217&row=1

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/

http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen1101.html
Rove's own tendency to be sick-minded originates with his mentor Segretti. The 2000 GOP primary was a chance for Rove to hone his skills in dirty tricks. His target then was Senator John McCain who appeared to be within striking distance of Dubya in South Carolina after the then-GOP maverick's surprise upset victory in New Hampshire. Rove's operation proceeded to target McCain with false stories: McCain was a stoolie for his captors in the Hanoi Hilton (this from a lunatic self-promoting Vietnam "veteran"); McCain fathered a black daughter out of wedlock (a despicable reference to McCain's adopted Bangladeshi daughter); Cindy McCain's drug "abuse"; and even McCain's "homosexuality." In the spirit of Segretti, Rove engineered a victory for Dubya but at the cost of trashing an honorable man and his family. Muskie, McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Hart, Tsongas, Clinton, Biden, Dole, Perot, and others had all seen the Segretti/Rove slash and burn tactics before.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I always thought that McCain lost SC because he pissed off the Religious
Right, and thus the "base"
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Look into it.
What were they "pissed" about? Was it the truth, or was it Rove dirty tricks? You can't trust these people, ever.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. GRRRRRR
I hate being a government whore
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
50. That's what it always comes down to for these people
"I just gotta believe."

Sad and pathetic.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #36
80. The people you work for?
Who do you work for?
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. trust but verify
remember who said that?

I think we have enough evidence to shake anybodys trust in some of the things this government is up to. Remember that systems can become corrupted. Our "system" has great potential but at the moment it appears to be rotten to the core.
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. voters names scrubbed from the rolls
read what greg palast discovered and the suit the naacp and the state of florida settled. Totally illegal shit.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. If you 'know the laws of Florida'...
...then you would know that the Florida Supreme Court has the duty to rule in election disputes. The SC didn't have the right to overrule them.

- Not to mention that the Florida election was rigged by Jeb and Harris...who disenfranchised thousands of voters, allowed GOP operatives to have free and unsupervised access to election files...and allowed many districts to keep the original count instead of recounting according to the law.

- I have a feeling I'm wasting my time with you. You're exactly the type of person this thread was intended to inform...but you're not even interested.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. If you read my other post
I am interested my friend, relax
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Don't tell me to relax...you're spreading disinformation...
...and pissing me off at the same time.

- It's obvious you don't understand what went on. I suggest you start reading right away.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I dont have time right at this second
Im too busy propping up the presidents coup d'etat and an officer in the military (relax relax, just joshing you)
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #28
51. We're not attacking you
We're attacking the "I just gotta believe but I don't really care" attitude that has infected this country and made the future of the USA nearly hopeless.

Some of us aren't ready to swallow whatever it is that you did and we're fighting back.

I don't think its just about reading enough information. Its more about listening to your own intuition when consuming the information you do get. Don't doubt what your own mind and body is telling you.
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Samantha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
44. So how come only 15 counties conducted the automatic recount
required by the Constitution of the State of Florida. The balance of the 67 counties simply rechecked their math and confirmed the totals submitted on election night.

What explanation do you have for the thousands of "felons" being put on the list erroneously and deprived of their right to vote. The State of Florida has settled the lawsuits and refuses to allow the terms to be released to the public.

How do you explain the fact the Secretary of State certified approximately 1800 more votes in her official certification than the total officially submitted by the 67 counties.

And very importantly, how do you explain, that contrary to the all of the procedural recommendation in A Recount Primer (the recount Bible) as to how to most effectively conduct an elections result audit, the overvotes for Gore that were not not counted were ultimately found mostly in Republican counties, as opposed to Democratic counties missing undervotes. Was that just a huge coincidence?
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
71. Your write-in vote.
Was as a matter of fact tallied on the Alachua County website, along with the other 75 write-ins for that county.

Wouldn't you be somewhat surprised to know that these ballots were NOT included in the tally from the state DOE?

If you can tell me why that is the case, I will accept that what happened in Florida in 2000 was legal and proper!
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Unforgiven Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
87. Yea Right
Far Right,As in your an Idiot!!
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. That's it
in a nutshell. We're not going to see it on any television news until we get the same sort of "think tanks" and organizations that the right has. The Heritage Foundation, The American Enterprise Group or whoever and countless others.

We have a few now like People for the American Way and now Moveon.org but the groups need more clout politically and in the media. The DNC doesn't have a Rush Limbaugh to do its bidding.

I believe Hillary is on the right track and working towards some organization like this to get the progressive message out there to the public and on the news. And if there's anything to the story about Gore's cable TV adventure and Anshell Media's project there might be some light up ahead.
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
23. connect these dots : 7x24 Kobe, gay priests and Arnold....
we are too close to the 'flame' for them.....
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. You got it, Stephanie. Totally righteous dot work.
I would reckon the American daze will last a couple of months longer, at the most. By then so much will have been stripped away from the veils that even the innocent among us will be able to connect the dots.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Thanks SpiralHawk
Edited on Wed Aug-06-03 07:48 PM by Stephanie
There's so much more, of course. But these few stories are enough, and they have been right in our face the last few weeks, and NO OUTRAGE.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
37. Mr. Wilson,
the CIA and maybe some in the FBI, could be (I hope, I hope, I hope) the cog in the PNAC wheel. Hell, we could sprinkle some soon to be Generals in there too.

As to people not getting it - it still surprises me when I run into people in my small town and they start telling me what happened! Most of these people are over 50.

But until the media starts doing its job, the majority of American citizens will remain in the dark - some blessedly so.

P.S. To the poster that claims he was the only person that voted for McClain - I would be incredibly embarrassed to post such ill-informed blarney.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
45. Where is the outrage at the Republicans
They seem to lie about everything from 9/11 to "nuclear" reason for going to war and nothing catches the media's or the general publics attention. But Bill-Monica dominated everything for years,Gore makes a statement about the internet (which was an exaggeration at most) and the sneers and smears are still around. I just don't get it.
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #45
52. Kind of makes you think...
that this whole thing goes way beyond the Bush Administration. It is systemic...or rather, the system that is in place represents the goals of a ruling class which is ruling this society in secrecy. Bush is just a facade.

Go deeper and you'll begin to understand.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
46. But a 20 year old isn't sucking Bush's dick
So clearly he has done nothing wrong.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. Well, you have no way of knowing that either
If a 20 year old were doing such a thing (try not to picture it!), you KNOW it would be just as protected by the media as G.H.W.Bush's affair with Jennifer Fitzgerald was. As I know you know, Abby, it's OKAY if you're a Republican!

NOW, is it also okay if you're a Republican to lie the nation into war, conceal the evidence of policy mistakes that caused the deaths of 3000 people, and put an American intelligence agent's life in danger as retribution for her spouse's outspokenness? Do they get to get away with this too?
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ElementaryPenguin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
48. How dare you make such an UnAmerican accusation!!
Mega-sarcasm button off!

Could the general public possibly be this fucking stupid, not to be able to piece this thing together!! If they really are - then we are REALLY, REALLY fucked!!!
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chadm Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #48
53. They Are!
And we all know it. Now what.

Oh, I forgot, Dean is gonna save the day.
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Yes, they are
unfortunately, almost half of the people in the united states believe that Iraq performed the WTC attacks, that Iraq and Al-Quaeda are connected, and that some magic man in the sky is looking out for them.

The media bears some responsibility for not informing people, but some of the things they believe are SO obviously incorrect, that you would have to question their cognitive skills.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #54
59. Even relatively well-read, well-informed people don't know this
I just had to explain PNAC again to a friend who reads the NY Times every day. Her cognitive skills are excellent. She just doesn't have time to chase down stories that are relatively obscure in terms of being page 29 news instead of page 1. These stories are blockbusters, IMO, and I cannot understand WHY they are being ignored.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #48
88. People deserve more credit....
The masses prefer to be in the dark right now - until a clear alternative emerges (AFTER the primary). Until then, settle for a gradual trickle of the truth.

All these Bush lies are pretty overwhelming to the well-informed. Imagine how tough they are to swallow by the people who actually trust (soon to be "trusted") him. Most Americans are in fear of the world right now, and a strong leader is their only prop. The rabid denial of any bush wrongdoing may be manipulation on the part of Rove & Co., but it's WILLFUL manipulation - because many people would be lost without it. The reasons for that behavior are unique to the individual.

Some people need to back a winner - thereby making them easier to manipulate. Others are more likely to question authority - but those numbers lessen in times of crisis. Only a few of us are willing to fight semmingly insurmountable battles (once again for reasons that are unique to each individual - and not always noble and unselfish). Doesn't make us any better - especially if we act (openly, at the very least) like we're somehow superior to the "masses" we're fighting for.

And yes...Dean CAN save the world (if we let him).
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
55. Is this is a review?

not new news.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. That's right, it's old news, from the last few weeks
WE know it, but many, many people do not. And I'm wondering why. These stories should be front page, screaming headlines, IMO.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
56. Where is the outrage?
Edited on Thu Aug-07-03 12:11 PM by Wonder

It is a good question. Because I know you know this is old news. It seems even when the dots are connected quite clearly WE THE PEOPLE prefer to remain duped. It is this ingrained loyality to the belief that the system works and that it will check and balance out...

either that or...
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. I'm not sure what you mean by "old news"
These stories appeared two weeks ago. At the time they seemed destined to bring down the BFEE for good. Then mysteriously they went away. Why have I heard nothing more about the Cheney energy docs? That story is DAMNING. Why no more about Wilson's wife? If it were Clinton the press would be hounding these stories. Instead, they give us Kobe and Ahnold. It's OUR responsibility to make sure these stories don't go away, and that Congress does it's job WRT to them.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Hey Stef
Well, there have been a number of times when the heat got going on the Bush administration, then poof, back to "normal."

When Karen Hughes left to go to Austin, I thought he was cooked then -- all kinds of things blew up in his face.

That Mike Ruppert piece, Part I, seemed to think that the real powers behind the puppet -- Mike called him the CEO -- were ready to give him the heave ho and replace him with someone of their choosing. Waiting for Mike to reveal Part II.

Where is the outrage? Well, bear in mind that mainstream journalism is now

<> news PLUS entertainment, in a sort of melded mess

<> owned by like 2.3 people (okay, maybe ten companies)

<> directed at people who, increasingly, grew up on electronic news, not print media. Something like 80%, IIRC, get their news from TV.

<> concocted at the lowest possible price; 40% of "news" is actually rewritten press releases. There are more working PR people than working journalists in the U.S.

<> populated by journalists who want to keep their jobs and their lives -- understandable. The price is very high if you expose something very big.

And, remember, Bush just went to Crawford, Congress is on vacation, and the press that cover them probably are too.

What I've found, in my unscientific research, is that people who get their news from the internet, and have the time and inclination to spend, are getting what you and I are getting. And then there's everybody else. Unless they have friends like us who hand them articles and email them articles and talk to them, they're not getting nutritious news -- just junk food. And, just like a person can't go from a McDonald's diet to macrobiotic in one day, you can't give it all to them in one lunch meeting. I wish we could just snap our fingers, but the assumptions (as listed above) hinder us. Plus the sheer complexity of these messes. Plus, how depressing it is. Does anybody really want to believe that (1) CEOs are lying to us and looting our pensions, (2) priests are molesting our kids and bishops are covering it up for decades, (3) our military and police and Justice Department are in the process of creating a police state AND we are no safer, and (4) our federal government is hell-bent on building a global empire no matter how many taxes it costs, no matter if we "have" to use nuclear weapons first, no matter how many allies we make into enemies, no matter what. And (5) our voting machinery is a sick joke.

Gee, I better have some more chocolate.

Anyway, don't give up. It's hard to tell if we're getting anywhere because the mass media refuse to acknowledge it -- remember when we had 12 million people demonstrate around the globe the weekend of Feb. 14, against the Iraq war? We had to box the press's ears and kick their cans just to get them to report a fraction of that, but they had to.



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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. Excellent post! Thanks Zan
Depressing though it is. What about this?

40% of "news" is actually rewritten press releases

Who is writing OUR press releases? The Cheney energy docs story was a Klayman press release, IIRC. I think our side has been very, very lax in this area.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #63
93. A lot of our side had no Ideal they would have to be looking for.......
checking out, keeping tabs, taking notes and just outright doing so many things others are getting paid to do but not doing because they will loose their job if they did. If I had any ideal I was going to be doing any of this I would of taken several semesters of Journalism.

As a matter of fact, these people that are placed in the way of most of us and revved up just to stop the many of us from telling the rest of friends, neighbors, coworkers and acquaintances. I don't even believe it is a conscious thought for 99.99% of the Journalist Its instinct, they know that's where their bread is buttered. The herding of sheep is a good analogy, but I think sheep are not as docile.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #60
95. Yes that is the distinction


It is old news in alternative press setting perhaps new news in the U.S. mainstream... that is what I meant. Our media has participated in a grand dupe... A sting of sorts... why I still bump into too many Americans who still do not have a clue about the PNAC... that is all I meant.
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #58
94. I mean it is old news (perhaps the query itself)
Edited on Sat Aug-09-03 05:22 PM by Wonder
many of the dots concerning the PNAC, the Corporate Oil bids, Enron in Afghanistan, Cheney's conflict of interest with halliburton, bechtel, have been in the alternative press for a while now...

Your points just reiterate the presence of these dots that have been in evidence... making people go hmmmmm, I mean, for a while.

These article seems to just reiterate this, while perhaps it presents more conclusive evidence ... does not make it new news... there are people that were able to put forth theory and conjecture on 9/11 itself. And a number of these articles I have already read, prior to this anyway. It seems perhaps that FINALLY US mainstream media is allowing the veneer to crack a bit. FINALLY and it is about time in fact may be too late. And if the democrats stand true to the complicity they have exhibited all these years... none of it will be exposed in the way it should be exposed. Exposing it could take the whole political infrastructure down with it the Iran Contra Scum that are responsible here.

The PNAC's Rebuilding America's Defense was exposed already... It harkens back to a Cheney memo going back to 1992... Old news...

Of course more and more conclusive inform just makes for stronger connectivity which hopefully will move very good conjecture and speculation from the realm of conspiracy theory into the realm of damning fact and something will be done to root out this Oil Empire and the thugs that are manhandling US foreign policy.

My apologies I did not intend to trivialize the lead post. The speculation and the dots and how they have been connected in the lead post... wasn't news to me is all.

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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
61. Al Gore connected a few dots today as he went through a litany of
"false impression" foisted on America by the Bush gang......
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. I like the part where he says he was the first to get a pink slip
Truth be told, Mr. Gore was a target just like the rest of us. This crap has been going on for centuries in one way or the other. I keep on thinking the only thing that is any different are these computers we all are using, communicating with and keeping track of things with. The cat has to be out of the bag and it's right under our finger tips.

This is the only thing to explain the behavior. Shutting down all phone lines and destroying all computers is the only way they could ever stick it back in the bag. I say keep the heat up, many cracks have been developing lately.

Sometimes I wish was still just a conspiracy nut, but when so much of it seems to be coming true, what's one to do?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. I can't wait to hear the Gore speech - hope to later tonight
"In America, a 'conspiracy nut' is defined as a journalist who reports the news two years before the New York Times." http://www.gregpalast.com/
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julka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
65. bookmark this thread!!
save it......bring it back as needed.

not new news, as someone here said, but an excellent microcosm of what's happened to this country, going back to Segretti/Nixon days.

not much to add, except that Gore should have re-emphasized in his speech today something he said in that last one he made:

there IS NO DEM ECHO chamber.

as has been most eloquently said here and elsewhere, stories like WMDs, Niger yellowcake, Wilson's wife, Cheney's energy papers, Enron's destruction of Cal economy, Choicepoint, et ALLLLLLLLL, get reported upon for a very brief period, if that, then get stuffed down the memory hole.

it really all does come back to who controls the media. THEY decide what the populace CONSUME as 'news,' (consume being the operatvie term, as everything in mass media is just a vehicle for moving other commodities to a credulous public, and they only care about what will yield the greatest viewing/reading/listening audience; don't kid yourself)

WHERE IS OUR ECHO CHAMBER, outside places like this?

seriously, bookmark this thread, and keep it in view, so people that lurk here, and occasionally post here, like skudros (post #12) might have their eyes opened to what's really going on
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #65
66. Al Gore was brilliant!
I just finished watching it. I'm blown away! He said everything! He was speaking to US!

Yes! Thanks for your post! That's the whole idea. These stories are only 2-3 weeks old, but already they're Old News. We can't let that happen.

thanks b.
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julka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. no.....thank YOU!
this one, and the PNAC, Iraqnuke threads NEED to continuously see the light of day.

this is our only echo chamber, and if the only repetition these stories get, for the time being, is here, so be it.




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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
68. I don't know if someone said this already, but the about Judicial ........
watch is they only received about 8 or 10 pages of what is thought to be reams. The White House clasified it all or something (hiding it) but even them few pages were damming to the cause. The nut needs to be cracked, I am sure we will find out eventuallly
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gottaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
70. keep up the good work
More stories on pnac/osp here and here and a rerun from breaking news.

You're fighting the good fight Stephanie, and word is getting out. The other day I mentioned Strauss to a librarian and she knew what that was all about, and she got the connection to the oil maps. She was thinking about which books to add to her collections. People are slowly connecting the dots.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #70
72. Great articles! Thanks! Especially the PR Watch story - excerpt:
http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2002Q4/war.html
War Is Sell
by Laura Miller
4th Qtr. 2002

<snip>The techniques being used to sell a war in Iraq are familiar PR strategies. The message is developed to resonate with the targeted audiences through the use of focus groups and other types of market research and media monitoring. The delivery of the message is tightly controlled. Relevant information flows to the media and the public through a limited number of well-trained messengers, including seemingly independent third parties.

A seamless blend of private and public money and organizations are executing their war campaign in the face of a sinking US economy and increasing public opposition to attacking Iraq. But with a Republican-controlled Congress and a largely pliant corporate media, there is little to challenge the White House agenda. Its diplomatic and political maneuvers have been tightly choreographed in concert with a handful of right-wing think tanks, the newly concocted Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, and well connected PR and lobby firms that now dominate media coverage of US foreign policy in the Middle East.

According to the New York Times, intensive planning for the "Iraq rollout" began in July. Bush advisers checked the Congressional calendar for the best time to launch a "full-scale lobbying campaign." The effort started the day after Labor Day as Congress reconvened and Congressional leaders received invitations to the White House and the Pentagon for Iraq briefings with Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and CIA director George Tenet. White House communications aides scouted locations for the President's September 11 address, which served as a prelude to his militaristic speech to the United Nations Security Council.

The Washington Post reported in July that the White House had created an Office of Global Communications (OGC) to "coordinate the administration's foreign policy message and supervise America's image abroad." In September, the Times of London reported that the OGC would spend $200 million for a "PR blitz against Saddam Hussein" aimed "at American and foreign audiences, particularly in Arab nations skeptical of US policy in the region." The campaign would use "advertising techniques to persuade crucial target groups that the Iraqi leader must be ousted." </more>
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. Can we highlight that little number and paragraph, This is money from....
The US treasury spent to persuade (or make a snow job) on the American public. This absolutely horrendous, to me the word TREASON is too nice of a word for what seems to be going on here.

From post above (snip)
The Washington Post reported in July that the White House had created an Office of Global Communications (OGC) to "coordinate the administration's foreign policy message and supervise America's image abroad." In September, the Times of London reported that the OGC would spend $200 million for a "PR blitz against Saddam Hussein" aimed "at American and foreign audiences, particularly in Arab nations skeptical of US policy in the region." The campaign would use "advertising techniques to persuade crucial target groups that the Iraqi leader must be ousted." </more>
(snip)
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. That's from JULY 2002! Now we know WHY they had to spend $200MM
on PR to sell the war to us. It's sick.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
74. PNAC: a potential plague on the planet (eom)
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. They are at it again
I telling you guys, these war mongers just keep on going and going
http://www.antiwar.com/
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/08/1060145871467.html
Arms dealer in talks with US officials about Iran
By Knut Royce and Timothy Phelps in Washington
August 9, 2003

(snip)
The immediate objective appeared to be to "antagonise Iran so that they get frustrated and then by their reactions harden US policy against them".

The official confirmed that the Secretary of State, Colin Powell, complained directly to the Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, several days ago about Mr Feith conducting missions that went against US policy.

A spokesman for Mr Feith's Near East, South Asia and Special Plans office, which sources said played a key role in contacts with Mr Ghorbanifar contacts, ignored an emailed inquiry about the talks.

The senior Administration official identified two of the defence officials who met Mr Ghorbanifar as Harold Rhode, Mr Feith's top Middle East specialist, and Larry Franklin, a Defence Intelligence Agency analyst on loan to the undersecretary's office.

Mr Rhode recently acted as a liaison between Mr Feith's office, which drafted much of the Administration's post-Iraq planning, and Ahmed Chalabi, a former Iraqi exilegroomed for leadership by the Pentagon.
(snip)

http://www.webcom.com/pinknoiz/covert/weinberger.html
http://www.webcom.com/pinknoiz/covert/irancontra.html

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_09.htm
Chapter 9
United States v. Richard V. Secord
(snip)
4 Secord, Clines Trial Testimony, 9/5/90, p. 193.

During 1985 and 1986, Secord received $1.037 million in cash payments from the Enterprise. About $34,000 was accounted for as legitimate business expenditures or withdrawals from his profits, leaving more than $1 million in unaccounted-for cash withdrawals by Secord.

Of the unexplained withdrawals, three totaling $796,000 stand out. On May 15 and 21, 1986, Secord personally received cash payments of $225,000 and $260,000. Secord said he provided this money to Israeli official Amiram Nir, but there is no supporting documentation.5 In July 1986, Secord withdrew $311,000 in cash, which he said he provided to the Iranian arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar, also without documentation.6 Nir, who has since died, was unavailable to OIC to verify Secord's account. The Israelis denied that their government ever received these funds, whether or not Nir did. The Israelis, however, were unwilling to provide a witness to testify to these facts. Ghorbanifar also denied receiving $311,000 from Secord.7
(snip)
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-08-03 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Iran is next
Edited on Fri Aug-08-03 11:05 PM by Stephanie
I don't really remember the story of Richard Secord. Was that part of Iran/Contra? I just wasn't paying attention at the time.

Did you see C. Rice on the Newshour tonight, giving a speech? She said we have to make a generational commitment to creating democracies in the ME. Then they had three talking heads who ALL agreed with her. One was from Bush I, one was co-author of a book with C. Rice, one was Sandy Berger. All agreed with her. A generational commitment. Based on the wisdom of the PNACkers and G. Dimson Bush.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. Didn't you mean they are comming back for it ?
Your kidding me about Richard Secord, you don't know who or what he did? He really kind of pops up in the middle of the story, this crap goes back a few years before that, but the documentation of Real law breaking pops up around his time. This is some of stuff Sen John Kerry was supposed to getting to the bottom of, but never followed through with. Any way here is link to a piece that explains some

http://victorian.fortunecity.com/brambles/499/Bush/GHWBushLies/ghwbushlies.html
George H. W. Bush's many lies – Part One

By Carla Binion
(snip about half way down)
(snip)
Around 70 percent of the American people disapproved of Reagan's Central American policy, but he zealously (and secretly) pursued it anyway. When CIA agents under Reagan's CIA director Casey mined Nicaraguan harbors and blew up fuel tanks, Congress cut off Contra funds. Reagan then secretly and illegally turned to foreign governments for money to keep the Contras going. He lied about that to the American people, too.

The Reagan White House enlisted a group called the "Enterprise" to help get around the law. General Richard Secord defined the Enterprise during the Iran-Contra hearings. He said, "The Enterprise is the group of companies that Mr. Hakim formed to manage the Contra and the Iranian project. ... I exercise overall control." Secord admitted to the Congressional Committee that he sold arms to the Contras for a profit.

The Enterprise included, in Moyer's words, "a shadowy network of arms dealers, fraudulent companies, and secret bank accounts." Senator Daniel K. Inouye, chairman of the Senate Select Committee, described the Enterprise as a "shadowy government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fund-raising mechanism and the ability to pursue its own ideas of the national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself."

Enterprise leader Richard Secord purchased 1,000 missiles from the CIA for $3.7 million. He sold them to an Iranian middle man for $10 million. The Enterprise made millions of dollars of profits from sales to Iran, and most of the money did not reach the Contras. Around $8 million remained in a private Swiss bank account at the time of the Moyers broadcasts.
(snip)

or read more here
http://www.geocities.com/knoxvillegreenparty/iran_contra_christic_institute/christicinstitute.html
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #78
85. Thanks! Guess it's time to read a history of Iran/Contra
Really wasn't paying attention at the time, but if all the old criminals are being brought back into service, better to know their names.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. Your welcome, Just trying to give helpers here.
Some of the modus operandi could be worth a look too. The big thing I notice about some of these reoccurring characters is their ability to figure out ways to funnel off money from government coffers to instigate and operate their various enterprises, often through skirting the law, or operating away from its jurisdiction. Gitmo in Cuba is a good example.

The thing I think they are most afraid of is evidence where hard laws were broken with real and concrete evidence is near at hand. I am sure some threads from here could be traced back to show how that happened. That guy in Great Britain who allegedly ofted himself might be a good starting point for that.

P.S. that post below was meant as a wake up call, for people who haven't been checking out how the world goes around, nothing personal to nobody (well maybe one or two, but they think they are above the law anyway, so it really wouldn't matter)
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #85
96. That Works
Edited on Sat Aug-09-03 07:48 PM by Wonder

this is the iran/contra cabal afterall... that cabal the democrats could have brought down during iran contra... but didn't and not for lack of initution or evidence...IMHO.

Make no mistake about that OSP discussed in that one article you posted in the lead post. It was (and perhaps still is) also present in Sharon's office because when he asked the Mossad, the Mossad refused to participate in any intelligence falsification...

I read that one article you placed here, when it was first placed on DU a few weeks ago. I am not sure that article makes this clear... but make no mistake: during Iran contra Israel was also involved (GOA/GOI collusion of sorts under the umbrage of GOA planning - at least so far that it seems in regards to gun and drug trafficking).

I do believe though the info has successfully been kept under the tightest of wraps since however an Israeli shipping company still sails out of panama under a panamanian flag (could be coincidence WHY OH WHY wonder)... there was collaboration between Israel CIA and Gotti...

Afterall there was a very specific reason Bush, Jr. decided to reclassify the Presidental Papers going as far back as 1980. He did this not long after 9/11. An article about this was printed in US mainstream. I read it in the L.A. times I believe it was printed at the end of September or the beginning of October 2001...

Poindexter is an iran contra veteran...Daddy Bush iran contra veteran... blah blah blah... This is a continuation of work the first Bush admin had not finished off... very little new here but for 9/11 ... and that perhaps... we may finally get some of those long standing questioned answered FINALLY... but of course much must be revealed and heads will roll on both sides this is necessarily a partisan issue...

whatabilderberg it tis it tis! connecting those dots via mainstream will prove much more a challenge.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. It would be a very interesting project to track the roles of Iran/Contra
figures who are also active in this maladministration.

Whatever happened to the Christic Institute?
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. It might even be interesting to backtrack this back to the Bay of Pigs

and the Kennedy assassination... but the lie is so HIDDEN RIGHT BEFORE OUR VERY EYES... it does seem regardless of who figures what out... I am not sure there is much anyone can do about it... Please understand I do not mean to trivialize any of this... this is some EVILDOING wrong and the EVIL LOOKS TO BE WITHIN...

when the real questions don't get asked or they get asked but always fall short of answering who or why... well what is there to do really... the whole pig sty needs raking out... and I am not sure spoilt joe blow AMERICANS are the ones to do it...

I am doing a search on the christic institute... if anything strikes me I will be sure to share it.

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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. DC Private investigator & CIA op used by Oliver North to harass
DC Private investigator and retired CIA operative used by Oliver North to harass and intimidate key witnesses including Jack Terrell and the Cristic Institute.

http://www.kerkness.ca/ftw/free/ciadrugs/witness_list.html

http://www.karljones.com/history/america/christic.asp

http://mysite.users2.50megs.com/conspiracy/bushcocaine.html

I can not hone in yet on current activities of christic, but it looks like they have focused on drug trafficking...

their do remain numerous dots to connect on Iran contra...even those most buried as implied by the Brenneke Deposition... various depositions are attainable via internet...

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_28.htm

Bush's Contra Buddies
COMMENT | May 7, 2001
Interesting article

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20010507&s=kornbluh


Powell's Iran-Contra Role
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2000/121900b.html

I can go on and on and I lost many of my sources that I have had book marked since sep 2001... the information is out there...SEE THE INTERNET really does foil attempts to censor information. I seem to remember it was AL GORE (probably among others) who insisted the information highway must remain free... it was good advice.




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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. various depositions
and or commentary on depositions

http://www.copi.com/articles/brenneke.html
http://www.wethepeople.la/brenneke.htm
http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/spriseoc.htm
http://www.webcom.com/~pinknoiz/covert/brewton.html
http://www.skepticfiles.org/cia-drug/sjmircon.htm

THE BELOW LINK CAN BE OBTAINED ALSO AS A PDF
U.S. Senate : legislative records.
1985-1988

http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:4REI5OAHt9oJ:library.bowdoin.edu/arch/mitchell/faid/pdf/6216.pdf+Iran+contra+and+deposition&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Portals and such

FLORIDA
PANAMA
MIDDLE EAST
COLUMBIA
COSTA RICA
TEXAS

I REALLY DO FEEL YOU THAN FOLLOW THE DOTS BACK TO BAY OF PIGS... Texas Oil will never be that far away. Bush Senior was somewhere in the CIA at back then... blah blah blah...


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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #97
101. Not an Easy Task
Edited on Sat Aug-09-03 09:15 PM by Wonder

for someone new to the info... I have always been kind of interested in covert operations... but there is so much info... I am not a scholar of it and I tend to forget names sometimes... I always knew things were not what they seemed and I was always that pain in the ass that never seemed to be happy with the explanations given for mighty fishy stuff... not that I could prove anything... not that I have any conclusive evidence ... I am one of WE THE PEOPLE is all... based on what I already new stuff with many gaps in my knowledge... I never believed for one moment this official line of crap we were handed regarding 9/11

Once you get all the iran contra stuff going and you go back to the 50's perhaps... than you might want to look into this group.... they are above the media... you talk about this group within regularly pedestrian circles you will be laughed out the box and ridiculed as ignorant...

I never talk about it... nor have I put all the pieces together... why? it is way way way bigger than me... and who has the time... lest one is a muckracking journalist or investigator by trade... and look how bought these people are... those really onto something burn out... show up dead --- become "suicidal" ... this probably will have to run it's course... this fascist coup I mean... and .... well... what is there to say?

all just food for the obsession... have to keep it all in perspective... and remember it is that PRAGMATIC RELATIVISM that will fuck you up all the time... when it is this big... all the status quo channels will not suffice... but that is MHO... it is why I have yet to be drawn into this moveon craze (check into their affiliations and Howard deans too), nor have I gotten all involved in who is that savior the democrat who will put the fire out in time and pull it all back in line. Not careful that guy you think is the savior could be one of the evil doers... its the affiliations... and which affiliations are connected to who blah blah blah... like I said bigger than all of us...

http://www.bilderberg.org/bilder.htm

whatabilderberg... all the info available on this group... good luck... can't imagine even a real inclusive expose (accent on the e) is in the cards for us anytime soon THAT IS OF COURSE unless the WHOLE mainstream media REVOLTS and I can not imagine that happening any time soon.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Check out this article
It's an excerpt from a book by Jon Ronson. The book is tongue-in-cheek, as he checks out all sorts of "extremists." But by the end of his visit with a Bilderberger, below, he has scared the pants off himself:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/extracts/story/0,6761,449320,00.html
Who pulls the strings? (part 3)
Saturday March 10, 2001

Bilderberg members continued to ignore my enquiries through the end of 1999 and into 2000. I continued dutifully to write to Bilderbergers, although I held out no hope of a breakthrough. And then, one Tuesday morning, the phone rang. It was the instantly recognisable voice of a Bilderberg founder member, for 30 years one of their inner circle, their steering committee, a Bilderberg agenda setter, a head-hunter - a secret ruler of the world himself, should you choose to believe the assorted militants I had spent the past five years with. It was Denis Healey.

"How can I help you?" he said.

"Well," I said, "would you tell me what happens inside Bilderberg meetings?"

"Okay," he said, cheerfully.

There was a silence.

"Why?" I said. "Nobody else will."

"Because you asked me," he said. Then he added, "I'm an old fart. Come on over."<more>
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. Interesting the style almost discredits the information.
Edited on Sat Aug-09-03 09:35 PM by Wonder


I find it also interesting the suggestion that they are an altruistic group... particularly considering the criss crossing with nazi's (I guess nazi's are not considered extremists) and then there is that mix up with the Jewish organizations and the Big Rich Jewish members and all the subtrafuge of the anti-Semitic cards. Why should the group worry.

But this group goes back further than 1954 you have to tie in the Rothchilds as well. It is not religion that motivates them it is class... elitism... and I do not believe it is primarily one religious group over the other either) and if you read through that link I placed you will find many a US President... SAXONS ARE WELL REPRESENTED.

Of course as you notice... in this article the dialogue kind of reads like a spoof on Bond... throw in some slapstick it could lean into a python realm... None dare call it a conspiracy...

Now it is a righteous Judao Christian crusade with a neo nazi twist... how fun really!
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #97
103. One last thing (for this thread anyway) I assume you have seen this
Edited on Sat Aug-09-03 09:18 PM by Wonder

FRONT PAGE WASHINGTON POST... the veneer is cracking that is for sure... perhaps there is hope yet...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=58505&mesg_id=58505
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
79. Enron type accounting running offices of US Government ?
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/080803_where_money.html
Where Is The Money?

A New Interactive Web Site Hits You in the Face Over the Enron-Style Looting of the US Treasury and What It Means to You Personally

A Political Reality Check for California's Political Circus

By Michael C. Ruppert

© Copyright 2003, From The Wilderness Publications, www.copvcia.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only.

August 8, 2003, 1200 PDT, (FTW) -- Wholesale Enron-style looting of US taxpayer money on a scale that threatens the stability and safety of every American has prompted an historic alliance between activism, technology, and financial expertise. A new interactive web site, www.whereisthemoney.org/, now makes real, on a local level selected by each user, the enormous amounts of money that have been stolen from the US Treasury. It also makes clear that most of our current problems---from energy shortages, to federal, state and local budget deficits, to needed infrastructure changes---could be addressed if the US government and private corporations like Lockheed-Martin and CFC-DynCorp were held accountable for their mishandling of taxpayer money.

The web site is a collaborative project between three disciplines as represented by its creators:

Former Assistant Housing Secretary and past Managing Director of Dillon Read Catherine Austin Fitts, (www.solari.com);
Henri Poole, President of Affero, Inc. (http://www.affero.com/) and board member of The Free Software Foundation http://www.fsf.org/ .
Brad De Graff of The Venture Collective (http://www.venturecollective.com/).
The importance of the issue, and why it must be injected into every political debate from now on, is dramatically emphasized by the political circus unfolding in California which has been sparked by massive budget deficits, not all of which are attributable to political mismanagement. If such a belief were true, then California would be the only state facing such crises. Instead, we see a nation sinking under red ink while trillions of our dollars are missing.

Candidates in the California recall race (and every American political contest) must be held accountable for this unconscionable theft of taxpayer money. This new web site makes it possible for every American to relate cooked government books and stolen money to the quality of life in their home state and to translate that loss into what it means in terms of education, health care and energy issues. The site also includes an interactive electronic petition where the American people can put their feet down and demand accountability, which is both their right and obligation under the Constitution.

It is not a case where the people "can" make the politicians listen. It is a case where the people "must" make the politicians change.
(snip)
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
83. Great post Stephanie--
I just wanted to add a link that I thought fit very nicely. You may have caught this previously as it was posted here before:

http://www.yuricareport.com/PoliticalAnalysis/FraudinWhiteHouse.htm

According to the Baker report, Saddam Hussein became a swing oil producer by turning Iraq’s oil taps “on and off” whenever he felt that it was in his interest to do so. During these periods Saudi Arabia stepped up to the plate and provided replacement oil supplies to the market to keep California type “disruptions” and scarcity from occurring in America. Hussein, the report says, used his own “export program to manipulate oil markets.” The report’s implications are clear: the national energy security of the U.S. was now in the hands of an open adversary and the Saudis might not make up the difference in the future. The Baker report recommends: “The United States should conduct an immediate policy review of Iraq, including military, energy, economic and political/diplomatic assessments…. Sanctions that are not effective should be phased out and replaced with highly focused and enforced sanctions that target the regime’s ability to maintain and acquire weapons of mass destruction.” Military intervention is listed as a viable prospect.

According to Neil Mackay in the Sunday Herald article, James Baker delivered the report to Dick Cheney in person in mid April 2001.


<snip>

A little background is necessary: In June of 1997 a group of former republican administration officials launched The Project for the New American Century, a think tank offering research and analysis on a “revolution” in modern military methods and military objectives. Like the energy task force, the passionate neo-conservative authors endowed their Principles with hard-hitting force, calling for the necessity of “preserving and extending an international order friendly” to America’s “security, prosperity and principles.” The founders wrote: “The history of the 20th Century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge and to meet threats before they become dire.” In fact, on pages 51 and 67 of the institution’s intellectual centerpiece, Rebuilding America’s Defenses, the authors lament that the process of transforming the military would most likely be a long one, “absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor.” (How unfortunate for Americans, they got their needed event on September 11, 2001.)

The signers to the “principles” read like a who’s who of the Bush administration plus a chorus line of supporters: Dick Cheney, I. Lewis Libby, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Elliott Abrams, plus world famous: William Bennett, Jeb Bush, and Dan Quayle, among others.


There is lots more. Highly recommended read.

Julie





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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
84. This isn't over! | Guardian: Who exposed whistleblower's wife?
Great news posted by NNN0LHI in LBN:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1015320,00.html
Who exposed whistleblower's wife?
Julian Borger, Washington
Saturday August 9, 2003
The Guardian

The FBI may launch an inquiry into whether the White House revealed the identity of a covert CIA official to punish her husband for blowing the whistle on President Bush for making misleading claims about the Iraqi nuclear programme, officials in Washington said yesterday.
Joseph Wilson, a former US ambassador and the last American official to meet Saddam Hussein, triggered a scandal on July 6 when he published an article saying that the White House knew in advance that the president's public statements about Iraqi attempts to buy uranium in Africa were not credible.

Mr Wilson had been sent to Niger in 2002 by the CIA to investigate claims of attempted uranium purchases there, and reported back that they were "highly doubtful". Despite his report, President Bush said in his State of the Union address in January: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."

Mr Wilson said: "We spend billions of dollars on intelligence. But we end up putting something in the State of the Union address, something we got from another intelligence agency, something we cannot independently verify, in an area of Africa where the British have no on-the-ground presence."

After Mr Wilson blew the whistle, the White House admitted the mistake but alleged that his report had never reached senior administration officials - a claim Mr Wilson said was false.

A week after Mr Wilson went public, a conservative journalist, Bob Novak, published an article in which he wrote: "Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate."

more
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. Yes, but when will the arrest someone, file charges, sieze evidence
Obtain warrants? This is supposed to be the world’s most legitimate law enforcement agency, and looks like Barney Fife could do a better job. This has to be more smoke, I don't believe squat about what ever some bullshit federal agency is supposed to be doing. So many crooks, murderers and real terrorist running free in the streets of the USA, many with the blessings from the FBI and similar agencies, how could one believe anything would ever come of it.

Some people in the corporate media would want us to believe how these institutions are doing their job and getting big time racketeers like Martha Stewart and alleged rapist like Iron Mike or Kobe and everything is rosy with economy humming along. All the during while of all these assorted happenings the real main thrust of this federal government is bludgeoning various parts of citizenry with a club in one hand, while they are telling the rest of the people they going to save everyone with the other. Just let me say I am not holding my breath for them to be any body’s saviors or bringing real justice to the USA. Their whole track record of doing such things is abysmal to say the least

lastly the man in charge of such said agencies, Mr. John Ashcroft is not only the US Attorney General because he is a "stay in step Ideologue" but also because of his proven ineptitude of doing anything that could be considered in the vain of "To serve and protect"
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #86
105. Now this makes sense, this guy is a little higher up on the food chain
This guy started singing his songs back on the 14th of July
Surly the little daily huttle got a little nervous about that time
The big thing is outing the * and posse for thier plans for the 2004 election, at least that my thinking, anybody else care to specutlate
Seems to me, he wouldn't be trying to put the spotlight on O4 unless more heat was being sent out the families way (Maybe Family Values strikes again)

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/07/30/1513221
Wednesday, July 30th, 2003
Ex-Diplomat Joseph Wilson: Bush May Start Another War in 2004 To Win The Election

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Former U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Joseph Wilson predicts the situation in Iraq will deteriorate so much over the next year Bush may resort to start another war in order to win the 2004 election. Wilson is the retired diplomat who visited Niger in a CIA-sponsored trip last year during which he determined the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal was bogus. His conclusion was ignored by the Bush White House.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retired U.S. diplomat Joseph Wilson is accusing the White House of orchestrating a smear attack against him and his wife. Wilson gained headlines earlier this month when he revealed that he had personally traveled to Niger in 2002 in a CIA-financed trip to investigate any nuclear link between the African nation and Iraq. Wilson set off a firestorm of debate when he told the media, the White House and CIA were both warned in 2002 of his findings.
(snip)
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
89. Outstanding work, Stephanie!
All we can do is hammer away with the truth, until the dots do indeed get connected, and a line is formed, and that line is morphed into a rope, and that rope is used to figuratively hang the criminals who have hijacked our country.

Your cogent presentation of the facts is our best weapon. Let us not hesitate to use it -- often, and with relentlessness.

Thanks.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
90. Here's the PNAC Link - Straight From The Source
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-09-03 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Thanks! We also have a big file of PNAC articles here:
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 01:41 AM
Response to Original message
106. A couple more things
On the original post it has this line
Dick and his oil pals get together in spring 2001 to divvy up the Iraqi oil fields, way before 9/11, way before the "drumbeat for war."

Mr klayman of JD watch has some info of these guys getting together in 1998 to plan energy deals, I think there is even another thread we lost GD crashed and lost info on 4 or 5 days threads. Also in the shuffle it the little thing of Antrax stirring things up right after 9/11 (more part of the plan maybe) Anyway here is this

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=123&contentid=617&page=2

Battelle Exposed in Anthrax Biochemical Conspiracy (continued)
by BOB FITRAKIS, FREEPRESS.ORG



Some investigators link the multinational investment firm and defense contractor, the Carlyle Management Group -- that was involved in managing the bin Laden family fortune prior to Sept. 11 to Bioport.

Former CIA Director Frank Carlucci, Rumsfeld's college buddy and wrestling partner, Bush the Elder's Chief of Staff James Baker III and the former President himself are all associated with the Carlyle Group.

As I reported in the Columbus Alive immediately after the anthrax scare began, Battelle is involved in developing a new and stronger strain of anthrax at its West Jefferson, Ohio labs. Don't be deceived by the fake farmland facades of the W. Jefferson complex. It's the center of a top secret defense project going under the name 'Project Jefferson,' according to the New York Times. The actual lab is BL-3 Anthrax Lab. The Times also confirmed that the CIA is also involved with its own top secret anthrax project called code name 'Clear Vision.'

As I noted in the Alive, the former No. 2 man in the Soviet biochemical warfare operation, Kanatjan Alibekov (now going by the alias Ken Alibek) is a classified consultant with both the CIA and Battelle. A 1998 New Yorker article pointed out the work between William C. Patrick III and Alibek on the anthrax project.

Battelle emerged during WWII as a top secret facility because of its work on the Manhattan Project. Battelle was responsible for innovations in uranium ore that was actually milled in Columbus. Battelle and Bioport stood to get massively rich off an anthrax scare and, more than any other organization, Battelle controlled access to the Ames strain of anthrax used in the top secret military tests.
(snip)
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Wonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. thanks for bring it up
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julka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #106
109. no labels reads my mind on several topics
I started a Battelle thread at TT a few years ago; don't remember much now, other than, like PNAC or CNP, it's pretty creepy, lots of potential for very bad things.......
looking through disorganized files for links, etc., but can't find anything yet.

they are VERY mysterious, as well as dangerous, with many tentacles. they've succeeded in keeping a lower profile than the once-thought-to-be-non-existent NSA (Puzzle Palace...James Bamford), but much more insidious, due to their govt/business connections.....what was it that Mussolini said was the true definition of fascism?

your take on some other things I've seen strikes chords as well (too tired to remember those, either, but maybe they'll come back someday)

that said, here's someone who should be MUCH more widely recognized than she is, and will become so in the near future:

Karen Kwiatkowski....thank you, zan from texas, btw.....recently retired Air Force Lt. Col., assigned to the desk that gave her the bidr's eye lowdown on some of the seamier aspects of the developing fiasco in the middle east

Kwiatkowski is a recently retired Air Force lieutenant colonel who spent most of her final three years of military service in the Office of the Secretary of Defense's Under Secretariat for Policy.

Houston Chronicle August 3, 2003
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/editorial/outlook/2023830

After eight years of Bill Clinton, many military officers breathed a sigh of relief when George W. Bush was named president. I was in that plurality. At one time, I would have believed the administration's accusations of anti-Americanism against anyone who questioned the integrity and good faith of President Bush, Vice President Cheney or Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

However, while working from May 2002 through February 2003 in the office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, Near East South Asia and Special Plans (USDP/NESA and SP) in the Pentagon, I observed the environment in which decisions about post-war Iraq were made.

Those observations changed everything.

What I saw was aberrant, pervasive and contrary to good order and discipline. If one is seeking the answers to why peculiar bits of "intelligence" found sanctity in a presidential speech, or why the post-Saddam occupation has been distinguished by confusion and false steps, one need look no further than the process inside the Office of the Secretary of Defense. I can identify three prevailing themes.

***Functional isolation of the professional corps. Civil service and active-duty military professionals assigned to the USDP/NESA and SP were noticeably uninvolved in key areas of interest to Under Secretary for Policy Douglas Feith, Deputy Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld. These included Israel, Iraq and to a lesser extent, Saudi Arabia.

When The New York Times broke the story last summer of Richard Perle's invitation to Laurent Muraviec to brief the Defense Policy Board on Saudi Arabia as the next enemy of the United States, this briefing was news to the Saudi desk officer. He even had some difficulty getting a copy of it, while receiving assignments related to it.

In terms of Israel and Iraq, all primary staff work was conducted by political appointees, in the case of Israel a desk officer appointee from the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, and in the case of Iraq, Abe Shulsky and several other appointees. These personnel may be exceptionally qualified; Shulsky authored a 1993 textbook Silent Warfare: Understanding the World of Intelligence. But the human resource depth made possible through broad-based teamwork with the professional policy and intelligence corps was never established, and apparently never wanted by the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld organization.

***Cross-agency cliques: Much has been written about the role of the founding members of the Project for a New American Century, the Center for Security Policy and the American Enterprise Institute and their new positions in the Bush administration. Certainly, appointees sharing particular viewpoints are expected to congregate, and that an overwhelming number of these appointees have such organizational ties is neither conspiratorial nor unusual. What is unusual is the way this network operates solely with its membership across the various agencies -- in particular the State Department, the National Security Council and the Office of the Vice President.


this oped is just the tip of the iceberg for Kwiatkowski's writing on this, and related subjects. she has her own website, that's currently down, but here's a list of titles archived at Lew Rockwell....say what you will about him, but there is a ton of provocative info at that site...pick and choose

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/neo-cons-arch.html
scroll down to her name

titles:

Occupied America
Karen Kwiatkowski on the neocons.

The Neo-Pentagon
Karen Kwiatkowski on the cabal that makes Clinton look good.

Burning Patriotism
Karen Kwiatkowski on the neocon perversion of natural virtue.

'Paradise Lost' and the Neocons
Karen Kwiatkowski bestows the Milton Awards.

The Neocons Take a Hit
Are the enemies of freedom losing? Well, it's a start, says Karen Kwiatkowski.

Another Piece of Cake, Neocons?
The days when you could have it and eat it too are ending, says Karen Kwiatkowski.

Chaos Theory for Neocons
Karen Kwiatkowski on card games for Trotskyite non-combatants.

remember.....she was in the AIR FORCE, and is no COMLIBsymp

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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #109
111. I don't know anything about being a COMLIBsymp but its worth a.......
Comparison somewhere. Those are good points you bring up and thanks for reminding about how the decrepit system is missing its mirror image, thinking about it makes all this stuff make more sense

http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/these_you_have_sought_on_a.htm
I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
Winston Churchill (radio speech, Oct. 1, 1939)

It seems since the counter balance is missing and somewhat of mirror image taboot, it seems quite easy for beltway to turn into the Kremlin in ways only of imagination. The interchange of players from business to government seems more that style than that of mid and late thirty’s Germany and Italy. Even what appears as the manifesto, with knowing somebody and giving your name endorsement for them to join the group. These guys are anything but Entrepreneurial, they seem quite opposite really. The analogy of what would the thing look like if it were US and USSR in one. Racketeers in deed, at least, I would presume

March 21, 1943
"There is no finer investment for any community than putting milk into babies."


http://www.mrsedivy.com/quotes12.html

If you're going through hell, keep going.
--Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965) British Statesman, Prime Minister, Author
And lastly thanks for the :kick:
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-03 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
108. New to DU? see PNAC archive post# 91. A storehouse of information.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
112. Just thought I would give this a kick, maybe somebody has a dot...
to connect

http://www.media-criticism.com/Baltimore_Sun_Iraq_2000.html

Remember the 2000 Coup d’Etat!

Progressives should not soon forget what dark forces installed the lackluster George W. Bush to the position he’s achieved.

What follows are some special memories of the 2000 presidential election:
• May, 2000. Thousands of black voters evicted from the Florida voter rolls supposedly because they are ex-felons. Nearly all of these never were criminals, however, but nearly all of them are black. 4,000 of them never bother to get back on the rolls. The list of people to evict was prepared by a firm hand-picked by Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris. Counterpunch, November 16-30, 2000.)
• 11/7/00: Election day. Palm Beach, Florida. Dozens, maybe hundreds, of angry voters attempt to tell the Election Board that the Butterfly ballot being used was too confusing.

That night, Gore handily wins the national popular vote, but the result in Florida—key to the election with its critical electoral votes—remains uncertain.

In Palm Beach, city with many elderly Jews, 16,000 ballot votes are made with both Patrick Buchanan and Al Gore specified. Thousands of angry voters claim they intended to vote for Gore but the ballot confused them. On TV Buchanan later admits the 3,000 votes he alone received in that county were certainly a mistake. This is significant because that number of votes handily exceeds Bush’s alleged final margin in all of Florida.
• Soon afterwards the Florida counties begin their recounts while Secretary of State Harris—who served as co-chair of Bush’s Florida campaign but failed to recuse herself in the aftermath of the election, as would have been appropriate—tries to stop them. In critical, Gore-leaning Dade-Miami County, a disturbance is
(snip)
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-13-03 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
113. synchroncity...just changed my sig line
:wtf: will it take :scared:
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