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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 05:49 PM
Original message
Poll question: Is WhoCountsTheVotes a paid GOP disruptor?
He's been on this board for a long time, attacking all of the
rich aristocratic candidates - like Dean, Kerry, Lieberman,
and Bush. He's been promoting the candidates with the most
union credentials - Gephardt and Kucinich, and putting in a
good word for the candidates he likes but feels are
unelectable - Moseley-Braun and Sharpton. He's pretty much
ignored Clark, Edwards, and Graham, and hasn't attacked them
since they aren't part of the American aristocracy (yet).

Since Dean is the most popular on DeanUnderground.com,
naturally WhoCountsTheVotes attacks him more than Kerry or
Lieberman. A few Dean supporters have accused
WhoCountsTheVotes of being a paid GOP disruptor.

So is WhoCountsTheVotes a Rovian double-agent? When he points
out the class divisions in the Democratic party, and takes
sides, is he really trying to disrupt the primary? Is he
trying to turn the party so far left that the multinationals
corporations and their CEOs won't give money to the Democrats?

P.S. Originally, WhoCountsTheVotes registered (and donated!)
to DU because of BevHarris' tireless fight against fraudulent
voting machines, hence the handle. So maybe you could blame
her :)
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ass - but kinda cute when he/she is angry just like DK.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. are you hitting on me?
As I said, it's awfully ironic that someone calling themselves Thorstein Veblen is supporting Howard Dean, who could have stepped right out of the pages of Theory of the Leisure Class. You might have missed the point of the author here...
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. The Theory of the Leisure Class is satire
Edited on Wed Aug-06-03 11:37 PM by ThorsteinVeblen
Veblen, like Swift, was a misanthropist. The lower classes disgusted him as well because all they did was envy and try and mimic the Leisure Class. And if any of them happened to acheive wealth and entry into the Leisure Class they became just as bad or worse.

All our Democratic candidates belong to The Leisure Class - to dismiss one as untenable because he is a member of The Leisure Class is to eliminate them all. Any candidate that does not belong to The Leisure Class is sick with jealousy and driven only by his ruthless ambition to social climb into The Leisure Class.

President=Leisure Class

Cheers

Thorstein

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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. It's just the candidates fit the satire so well
Surely you can understand how your background can influence your character.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Option 3 definitely
:hi:
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. heh-
i've had him pegged as a RNC operative for some time now. but heck, it's not like he's the only one! :)
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. then vote!
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jafap Donating Member (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. hey, I voted for RNC disruptor and it wasn't counted!
Maybe WCTV is a hacker who is rigging his/her own vote!

Just kidding.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. oh no I've been caught!!!
"Operator, get me Karl Rove - in Washington!!! Now!!!"
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. That's Mean
Maybe he/she is a passionate populist and believes certain candidates are betraying those principals.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. it's sarcasm, bro.
chill.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. I am all for robust debate
Edited on Wed Aug-06-03 06:01 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
"Let a thousand flowers bloom"

-Mao Tse sung

Have I established my working class bona fides now
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
44. sorry, I'm anti-communist
Lenin and Mao were two of the most anti-working class people ever. Communism, whether it's Leninist, Maoist, Stalinist, or whatever, is just another ideology of letting some elite group make decisions for the working class. Not that they don't have some clever slogans, but no thanks.


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Born_a_Democrat Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. He might not be the only one
So is WhoCountsTheVotes a Rovian double-agent?

Sometimes I feel like that about the Naderites...

not ALL the time but just sometimes...

moments of lucidity? "Green" with envy? don't know and I probably never will
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West Coast Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. My thoughts exactly
Naderites...paid GOP operatives....Who can tell them apart half the time?
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
23. they are indisinguishable
he he he
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. I voted #3
Edited on Wed Aug-06-03 06:04 PM by w4rma
:evilgrin:
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. hey w4rma, don't wimp out now!
You accused me of being a paid GOP operative, and when you actually have the chance to vote and make it official, you're not going to?

Ah well.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. You use poor tactics
If I was pro-RNC, I would think about doing exactly what you are doing. I don't really think *you* are pro-RNC. I just think you use counter-productive tactics.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. You Have A Progressive Majority Avatar
and Who Counts The Votes supports the most progressive candidate.

So he/she makes a little noise.

As Lenin said "you can't make an omlette without cracking a few eggs."
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. I've been promoting the Progressive Majority since I first heard of them
Edited on Wed Aug-06-03 06:28 PM by w4rma
Note, neither the Progressive Majority nor myself are communist.

capitalism and socialism are opposite ends of an axis.
democracy and dictatorship/monarchy are opposite ends of another axis.

A state can be totalitarian and capitalist (fascism):

"Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism -- ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

A state can be totalitarian and socialist (communism)
A state can be democratic and capitalist.
A state can be democratic and socialist.
A state can be anywhere inbetween the two axis. The U.S. has both capitalist policies and socialist policies.

Here is a list of some of the socialist ones:
socialized armed forces
socialized water
socialized police
socialized fired department
social(ized) security
medicare
road building/maintanance
public waste and water treatment
public schools
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
15. I just wish "who counts the votes" would come up with some better......
straw man's, devils advocate or even underhanded bait and switch. The people that have been on this board for awhile know most of them as old hat. So come on, throw some new ones out there already !!!!!!!!!!
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #15
46. hey, when I'm getting paid by a candidate
I'll spend more time on my strawmans and bait and switches - I could be as good as the paid operatives on here. As of now, it's a labor of love.
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think somebody needs a tin-foil hat ;)
or a nap, one of the two.

Shalom
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skudros Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. And about Grahm
I would most certainly count him as part of the American Aristocracy, he is Certainly part of the aristocracy of my home state, Florida. He is the son of a very rich rancher and is definately of the old money, his father was good friends with the Citrus/cattle magnate Ben Hill Griffin, Katherine Harris' {remember her} grandfather, he is independently wealthy and was born into it, which would technically make him even more of the arisocracy that, say, Kerry who married into the blue bloods as I understand it. But despite that I still love ol' Bob, fun guy.


Shalom
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. damn it!
Edited on Wed Aug-06-03 10:50 PM by WhoCountsTheVotes
I didn't realize that. His website talked about all the different jobs he had, and I assumed he actually had to work, but if what you are saying is true, he was probably just filling in at his dad's companies. Now even more people will hate me because I have to move him to the bad column - not because he's rich, because he's rich and supported NAFTA. I'll forgive a Clinton or an Edwards, but not some rich guy.

Ah well, 75% of everyone thinks I'm an ass anyway, so...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
17. No...in fact, I have great hope for you.
I think you *eventually* accept facts when presented.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. thanks! but I'm still not voting for John Forbes-Kerry
I'm pretty sure that will never happen. I agree though - certainly better than Bush, don't get me wrong.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. So far, 67% say he's just an ass.
I've never believed in polls before...guess there's a first time for everything. :evilgrin:
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redeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. I voted ass...
...mainly becuase of your obsession with background over message and with class warfare (and, excuse me, not supporting someone just because he's rich is exactly class warfare) and your opposition to letting non-Americans have jobs, a position usually called "free trade."
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. heh, yes substance over "message"
I want non-Americans to have jobs, they can get them with corporations based in their own country - what the hell is wrong with that? Anyone in the US legally should be able to get a job too. I'm strongly pro-immigration.

And yes, I most certainly am a big proponent of class warfare - at this point, for me and my class, it's a defensive war.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. Who's opposed to non-Americans having jobs?
Not me...but at the expense of me, my family and friends? Sorry, but I gotta go with self-preservation here.
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redeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. It ain't at your expense
It's at the expense of people you don't even know. Besides, I can use the same argument against blacks deserving equal opportunity.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. you could, but you would be wrong
I think we're speaking two different languages here - I'm not for putting restrictions on workers, I'm for putting restrictions on state sponsored corporations - it's a limited government thing.

"It's at the expense of people you don't even know." - and when they take my job, isn't that the same thing?
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. Yeah it is at my expense.
Because every job that leaves this country is one less dollar that can be spent at MY establishment and my FAMILY'S establishments and my FRIENDS' establishments. So, yes, it DOES affect me directly.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. I'm hopeful this is a joke
If not, it's a pretty big dick move to single someone out like this.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I think he singled himself out.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. That's not the point
This is vigilante moderating, which is bullshit. This is also singling out someone for a public insult-fest, which is also bullshit. Both are pointedly against the rules.
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chomskyite2 Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. im not sure you get it
he created the poll about himself...


Aaaaahhhhh, i get it!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Me = buckethead
Man. Must find rock to crawl under.
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chomskyite2 Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. haha
we all do that sometimes.

people were so sincere too.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Glad I read a little farther, because I was about to get my feather's in a
dander...;-)
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devarsi Donating Member (800 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. I Liked The Part Where You Said...
"That's Not The Point"

after being told it was self parody. Will Pitt, you are a freind to the oppressed, even the self oppressed!

Be Proud!
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. Sorry, I should have mentioned to note the author of the thread.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. himself?
he posted the thread
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. DOH!!!!!!!
Dumb ass me.

Wow.

Dumb ass me.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. ROFL!
:toast:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. I will rub him and pet him and stroke his feathers and call him George
Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh...
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. HAHAHAHA!
If he knew what we know now, I doubt if he would've chosen George as a name.

:toast:
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Note the thread author.
n/t
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mrsteve Donating Member (713 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
36. Will's just a little jet lagged still
from his globe trotting book promos.:silly:

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MaraJade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-06-03 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
50. "Just an ass. . .
:dem:

like most of us;
just a stranger on the bus
trying to make his way home"

:D


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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
53. I would say no but
I think there is obvious bitterness and a healthy dose of full-of-yourself would about sum it up.

Julie
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. there really are paid disruptors
Or at least, most people seem to think so. You are not allowed to accuse someone of being a Freeper or a disruptor, so this seems like a humorous way to discuss it, with myself as the target, as opposed to someone else.

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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. oh, silly me
I thought is was a cry for attention.

Julie
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. maybe we should be able to vote people off of DU?
That would make for an interesting experiment.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
57. No comment
The votes ate secret ballots.
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-07-03 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
58. If they pay disruptors, they ain't getting their money's worth
'cause the ones around here are stone cold dopes.
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