An unexpected down point in Dean's Arnolds Park speech

I'm watching this speech on C-SPAN, where an old lady poses a question to him about the gay marriage issue to the effect "I'm not homophobic, because I have had a lot of gay and lesbian friends*, but I believe that the foundation of this country is the family and our values, and I'm concerned about what I've seen in New England with the gay marriage laws; you've talked about the hemorrhaging of our jobs, but I'm concerned about the hemorrhaging of our values."

Dean gave the expected response, describing the difference between marriage and civil union, and telling his gay D-Day veteran story, and it should have felt almost as good to hear it as the first time I heard it. But I was too bothered by the question itself to really cheer about his answer.

The thing is, frankly, this woman's question disgusted me, because she sounds like a weasel. Of course, nobody in this country is a bigot to hear them tell it. Everyone's had tons of friends who are black, gay, Muslim, whatever the subject under discussion. But lady, listen to yourself: just what are you saying? What, exactly, is the danger you're seeing to "our values"? Seems to me the only answer that fills the blank you're leaving is that there are gay people.

From a broad sense, Dean's answer suffices -- basically, that if we can't afford to treat law-abiding Americans with tolerance, then our values are in trouble. But it still bugs me to see people dancing around an issue pretending political buzzwords don't mean anything. "I'm not homophobic, but I think homosexuality is immoral". Uh, OK. It's like when the Republicans talk about "tax relief" for millionaires -- how can anyone somehow need financial relief while they've still got a lot of money?

Weasel talk. I hate it. (sigh)

She went on and on and on and on prefacing her stupid question.. it really cut into the time. I ended-up yelling at the TV, "ask the question already, dumbass!"

Really aggrivating.

She got about one sentence in and I'm like, "Sigh. Just say, 'Gay marriage, you supported it, defend yourself'."

But then again, she kinda sounded like she was at an age and/or condition of health where talking at all is difficult. So ... she's ... talking ... like ... this. So I'll say this much, I respect that she still has the gumption to get out into politics and get active.

It just boggles me whenever I hear that "I'm not prejudiced against X, I have many X friends" pattern, because at least half the time I hear it, I really believe it -- or at least, believe that they believe it. It's just sad to think that people can be actively biased and still pat themselves on the back at the end of the day for being so egalitarian.

I consider myself lucky that I actually managed to at least get my mother to see the lurking bias of a similar statement about gay rights activists she'd made more than once ("What people do in their bedrooms is their own business, but they shouldn't be pushing it in our faces") I asked her, was she pushing her heterosexuality in the public's face when she got married?

Frankly, I've always wondered if the problem this country has getting a grip on "equality" has something to do with our widespread innumeracy. Maybe we just don't learn enough algebra, so we don't know what "equal" means. :eyes:

and there are many Americans that consider themselves liberals that switch into conservative mode whenever the "gay theme" plays in the background, just look at this board.

I thought that Dean's reply is as good as any I have ever heard on this topic because it framed the debate within the construct of equality under the law, while making the distinction between a religious marriage and a civil union.

The woman that asked the question was very old, and she was a former local party official. She did applaud at the end.

by first stating a disclaimer. I have nothing against blacks, and I even know a few of them. But I don't think that it's a good idea that we all use the same bathroom or that they are allowed to sit on the bus wherever they want. After all the bible which is the Christian foundation of this country clearly states that they are ignorant savages.

So what's the difference between what I wrote and what that bigot said? Nothing.

Also, If marriage is so damn sanctimonious, then why in the hell is everyone getting a divorce? You would think that these religions would embrace people that actually wanted to use their laws to sanctify their coupling.

Idiots!!!

Thanks goodness we have the good doctor to explain it to them slowly and patiently, in unthreatening language they can understand. As many times as necessary. I actually think it's good he was asked the question, and in that way. He'll be asked it over and over, he might as well get used to it.

and we'd better be as good in answering as he was. I have a very kind, good friend who is homo-phobic. She knows she shouldn't be, she knows it is stupid, but she is.

SHe's a democrat, and I bet this will come up when we are discussing the Virginia primaries - let alone the Sleepless SUmmer tour. And I figure that I've got to be able to frame it just like the good doctor did.

Because if I can, we'll probably have another dean supporter.

Just being there shows me he's got some brass. But that lady's question doesn't suprise me. She and people like her refuse to see the conflict between what they say and do.

Arnold's Park-plunging headfirst into the 1950's. That's the region of the state that stigmatizes the rest of us.