I didn't officially pledge to a frat, but

I basically lived at one for a year.

It was the most surreal, insane experience of my life.

Two of the "leaders" of that frat have now been in prison for years, and the rest of the group have become a bunch of nothing, no ones.

Was it too much beer and sex that led to their self-degradation?

Can we blame it on their upbringing?

Can we just say they were, and continue to be fools?

Is there a fraternity that doesn't exist to debase all involved?

Every group one joins forces a certain amount of conformity.

The neo-cons are an adult frat. With money and influence over fools.

It doesn't make them "special" or somehow more knowledgeable.

We were part of the Roman set, not Greek. Pershing Rifles. We had the hardest pledge cycle of anyone, Greek or Roman, but once you got through that it was very supportive and positive group to belong to. We were also co-ed.

What's a Roman frat you ask? We're the anti-Greeks. :evilgrin:

Once the 'boys' playfully decided to see if they could shoot out the window where my grandmother was sitting. The bullet missed her by a few inches. The frat boys were required to fix the window. No other charges were made.

I was in my yard, playing, when one of the frat dogs, a huge St. Bernard, came into the yard and attacked me. The frat boys laughed it off, and said I should be more careful (I was six or seven at the time, and the dog was bigger than me.) Again, nothing was done.

I know that some fraternaties and sororities do good, charitable things, but I also know that some fraternaties house people who flaunt the law because of their wealth and position.

When I call Shrub "frat boy" I'm thinking back to my childhood and the frat boys who lived near me.

only one who has never joined a frat could ever say it.

Could you elaborate on that?

thanks.

You're looking for a flame war and I'm not going to play into your little trap.

I am looking for what I said I was looking for. If it turns into a flame war, then count me out.

Information is a "good thing."

eom

but I failed the physical.

just because those particular girls were assholes, that's hardly a way to label all sororities.

...all part of the Frat Scene when I was at PennState late 80's / early 90's

It was fun. (Alpha Kappa Psi)

Co-ed frats were a lot better than the gender-specific ones.

...is that the soldiers in them probably learned their socialization skills in frats and sororities.

if anybody's interested in knowing what it's really like, I'd be happy to share.

One thing I did learn: Any group that claims to be "special" or more (strong/rich/knowledgable/virtuous) than others are in danger of groupthink.

This thread is a perfect example of it.


snobs.

What was the hazing ritual like?

Okay, no sheep were harmed...

It was all pretty harmless stuff. Kinda like going to one of those "team building" retreats but a little less touchy-feely than trust falls & ropes courses but the same basis. Also lotsa memorization of things from the frat history - all the way to the Budweiser pledge. Just jazzed up to seem manlier. The intention is to get people working together & to bring about a feeling of group/individual accomplishment at the end of it all. Bonding stuff that could've worked with a coed or same-sex group just the same. Some other fraternities were more into the sadistic male ritual crap - heard all kinds of stories. Then again, other frats were even tamer than us - wouldn't make the pledges do anything.

The whole "dues paying" concept I'm okay with - as long as it doesn't pass on a cycle of abuse/entitlement/abuse, etc.

I met the best and worst people I'll ever meet, but I bet alot of non-greek types can say the same thing about their college experience.

I've made it a bit of a pet issue to try to get people to be more sensitive as we are a diverse crowd (and we know better anyways), but I think the problem is pretty entrenched.

Imagine if instead of "frat boys" all these posts said "blacks," or "hispanics," or ... you get the idea.

Nothing like prejudice to show you folks' true sides.

The more apt imagining is if all these posts said "lawyers" or "politicians" or "republicans."

I trust the difference is patent.

www.pbk.org

I don't know, I just felt like I was buying my friends. And forced conformity was just not fun.

I was a Deke (Delta Kappa Epsilon) at Alabama in the late 50s, early 60s.
It seemed very important at the time. Not so much now.

Physical hazing of pledges consisted mainly of swatting us on the butts with paddles at the weekly pledge meeting. It stung, but there were no serious injuries. The most dangerous part was one of the upperclassmen who was woefully uncoordinated. You knew his slat would land somewhere between your ankles and your head. We were bending over, so the headshot wasn't too big a risk. If someone broke a slat on your butt, you got to sit (OK, STAND) out the rest of that evening's ordeal.

The rest of it was a bunch of what I'd call psy-ops stuff that most of us just thought was silly. Memorization of The Roll Of Chapters, which I still remember most of today. "Phi-Yale, Theta-Bowdoin, Zi-Colby, Sigma-Amherst, Gamma-Vanderbilt, Psi-Alabama, etc., etc.". There were mystic ceremonies and a bunch of "wooly-wooly" bullshit. Pretty silly today, and pretty harmless back then.

We learned two of the guys (roomies) were gay lovers and gave them a very hard time. I'm ashamed of that now.

I remember the parties and a lot of drinking. A little (very little) sex. Hey, it was the 50s. Oddly enough, I'm not close to any of those guys now.

What I did not come away with was the mentality and "moral" code that would allow me to do anything like torture prisoners.
But that's just me.

I'd have to fault the guy who put them in that position, although it may be that the situation just gave them an outlet for the sadistic tendencies that they already had. You see it in a few cops. People who should never have been in that job.

is the best. it's the mine is better mentality. i'm sure no one here on this board thinks their favorite football, basketball, baseball team is the best, right? and certainly no one here thinks their country is the best in the world? :eyes:

besides, people join different groups for different reasons. i joined a sorority in college because i wanted to experience it for myself. didn't want to look back and wonder if i missed out on anything. i'm glad i did. it was a good experience and i have fond memories. but i also have VERY fond memories of my presorority days too. and unlike the cliche, i did not join to make friends. i had plenty from my numerous other organizations that i belonged to on campus.

I get tired of the greek bashing because it gets stale. No one ever mentions the philanthropy involved. I spent countless hours reading for the blind because of my sorority. And so did many others. I also busted my ass being a part of student government as it was encouraged to be an activist by my sorority.

You just hear about the parties and drinking--as if greeks are the ONLY ones to party and drink in college. And in college I dated just as many greek assholes as i did GDI assholes.

People are people despite economic or social labels. just my 2 cents.