As horrible as the soldiers' behavior was

isn't it, I'm afraid, a bit of a dodge? Thrown into that hellhole, and given orders, soldiers can devolve into basically anything. I'm not excusing their behavior--at all--but aren't we missing the real culprits in this?

Namely: their commanders and generals? the CEOs of the mercenaries? those in the military who saw fit to hire mercenary interrogators?

See the commentary today at www.Earthside.com

The problem is that too many non-military people have returned from Iraq and reported that US soldiers, to a lesser degree, treat many of the Iraqis they round-up in a humiliating manner.

There maybe a scale, but it is a racist mentality that prevades the occupation that sows the seeds for the resistence.

i don't know the answer. but i just wonder if it is possible to train a soldier to kill, but not to hate?

But you are correct. A fish rots from the head first. Just as in Viet Nam, these atrocities get worse by degrees, in relation to the despair of the moment. Next photos you see may be the severed genitals in the mouth of a "terrorist"...

that many of these soldiers had prior correctional institution experience--they were prison guards in the US. If you take into account the racist, violent, degrading treatment of US civilian prisoners, you won't be surprised at all that the treatment of non-US prisoners in a military situation will be even worse, especially when the pResident has taken such enormous pains to deny the applicability of the Geneva Convention. (And remember that * shares a large part of the responsibility for the conditions of US prisons, playing for the votes of those who think prisons should be a nightmare.)

In any large group of people there are going to be some creeps. Beyond that, I can't imagine what kind of stress these kids are under. I whine and moan when the temperature gets over 90 for three days. I can't imagine living in an oven, wearing a uniform and carrying around equipment. Then, to have people shooting at you and not know when your Hummer is going to explode underneath you.

There's no way in hell I'm going to judge these soldiers.

Except the excuse was the snow and cold and the partisans not playing fair. Or try reading about My-Lai and the excuses that "you can't trust anyone" - even infants.

There are always justifications for brutality and inhumanity to be found..none are valid.

These sadists weren't "under stress", they are MP's in a rear area living in air conditioned abodes, eating decent food, and exerting their power over helpless people.

They are scum who should be booted out of the army that they should never have been allowed in.

such as this know it is wrong. That there was not one person there at that moment who had a twinge-enough of a twinge--to act upon is sickening to me. I just cannot buy depraved conditions. Someone could have and should have stepped forward and stopped it.

Rather, we're getting distracted from the REAL bad guys

will.

On a side note: Love the Blue Ribbon avatar. As a little girl in Milwaukee, my dad would take me to my grandpa's bar. It reminded me of the sign out front. :hi:

In any given demographic, 3% will fuck it up for the rest. 3% of our soldiers in Iraq is about 3,000. That's a whole lot of soldiers that those commanders, generals, and CEO's can manipulate to their end. But make no mistake, that 3% were fuckups to start with.

And for the love of God, PLEASE remember that the other 97% are good, decent people trying to figure out how to handle this horrific situation in the right way. This story may well be the tip of the iceberg, but there are ALOT of soldiers over there and most of them are not involved in crap like this.

Vote NO on Merger, here are my reasons
by: rivervalleyfox 04/27/04 09:35 am
Msg: 101294 of 101328

VOTE NO ON MERGER... Here are my reasons for
voting no.

Titan is now profitable and has significant sales and significant backlog of orders. . They are further reducing expenses, and they are a clearly established succcessful contractor in an important area of our nation's defense.

Our defense against radical Islamic attacks and other radicals, will not cease any time soon.

The destruction and death spread across the world by fundamentalist Islam, against "infidels", (both non muslims and muslims who do not belive as they do ) will continue to be a war which will go on for years and one which most of expect will only get worse in its attacks. Our defense needs the INDEPENDENT innovative talent of an independent Titan to protect us.

Also,
We have seen Titan stock well above $40 a share, ( or was it above $ 50 a share? ), in the past...it is not unreasonable to believe that in a year from now, after we defeat this merger, that Titan stock will be worth more than Lockheed's $ 20 a share offer.


Preventing this merger is better for our nation and is also probably better for us as investors.
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http://tinyurl.com/yt968