How confident are you that even if Kerry wins, we still lose?

I am not advocating voting for anyone but Kerry, since I guess he is our "only hope"; however with his speeches and attitude, I get the impression that this insanity will only continue after he is elected.

How confident are you that we are screwed?

but encourage the re-selection of bush*....

there will now be a complete and total response by the lurking reTHUGlicans...all suggesting that Kerry is worthless...and in a real back-handed slam against Kerry, encouraging bush* for another selection...."slam Kerry, get bush* re-selected" is the RETHUGLICAN way....reTHUGS did it to Max Cleland, John McCain, and NOW, right here on DU, to John Kerry (American HERO !)

slam Kerry...slam his religion, slam his wife, slam his service, portray him as a 'waffle', an unhonorable purple heart recipient, and NOW, portray a useless effort to vote for Kerry....this is nothing but a ploy to re-select bush*....

KKKarl rove and his mentor, goebbels, would be very proud of this survey.....

Goebbels, not Goering. Goering was the airplane guy.

Tucker

We as Democrats and liberals need to stand behind Kerry and help him get elected. This election year is WAY too important to vote for anyone but Kerry.

We need to grow-up and stand behind John Kerry 100%.

...after a WWF steroid junkie

anything? So...someone who has a name of someone from TV needs to grow up? Then what about someone who has the name...like, oh...Skinner? You going to tell him to grow up? After all...Skinner is named after a cartoon character. :eyes:

And yes, some people do need to grow up. Kerry is the nomination and we HAVE to stand behind him 100%.

you're the one who is telling people to grow up. That's the ironic part,

d

sorry 3H, it was a funny reply.

As I said I am still going to vote for Kerry, but I have heard him say he will continue the War on Terra and in general, all of his opinions sound more like a Right-Winger than a Dem.

Just my opinion. Obviously Kerry is the only choice we have, however I generally believe that Kerry works for the same puppet-masters as Bush and that nothing will change.

Sorry you all think I am a "neo-con"; I have been here for a lot longer than a lot of you who making those accusations. I am however a member of the tinfoil-hat club. I believe the corporations own our Government lock, stock and barrel. :tinfoilhat:

Time will decide whether I am right or a madman.

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I can assure you he is not a neo-con nor a right-winger, capitalizations aside. A person might be able to fool an online forum for a while, but not their flesh-and-blood SO for long.

He's more like a small-l libertarian with a serious conspiracy streak, and a dyed-in-the-wool pessimist.

Thanks for playing! :hi:

Tucker

been my 'flesh-and-blood Significant Other' for a long long long time...and it's not about 'playing' with us....

tucker...sometimes Xen mentions you, but I am very surprised that you are on-line in this forum....

Thats rather offensive. Have you seen these two in the lounge? They're nuts but they're cute. You have no place to insinuate that their relationship is phony. I really think thats out of line.

before....I'm just surprised to read it, written so openly here on DU...


I haven't insinuated anything...their own words are there for all to read....

I can take it. I don't care if you think I am Satan. Call me all the names you like, but lay off of Tucker. She has been here longer than I have. And I have been here since a little after 9/11.

I would also appreciate you not insinuating that she and I don't have relationship. I moved across the country for her. I don't care whatever fantasies you want to indulge, but I take it as a personal insult to my honor when you belittle the love of my life.

In closing - insult me ok; insult my SO bad.

I'm just surprised to read it, written so openly here on DU...
I must have been using loaded language with out knowing it. All I meant was that they have really silly threads in the lounge. Random wombat stuff.

And you keep saying that people's words are there for everyone to see, as though these conclusions you are drawing, and not sharing, just hinting at, are crystal (KKKrystal) clear. If you want to call some one something don't hint at it, say it so they can respond. This hedgy language is not helpful.

If your previous post is not insinuating anything, either you need to be more clear as to your tone of voice or I will eat my radio. I still think you crossed a line.

Yes, we are nuts (and cute). Why would you be "surprised to read it written so openly"?

Tucker

We all must follow the "Dem" rules of English? No capitalization of anything conservative, excuse me KKKonservative, which brings us to rule two, anything starting with a k or a hard c must start with KKK... :eyes:
If you want to attack the poster for being pessimistic, okay, but attacking because he capitalized something?

right-wingers every time they diasgree with another poster's agenda. This sort of Stalinist tactic does nothing but stifle dissent and is in clear contravention of DU rules. Argue your point, but don't stoop to unfounded accusations.

agreed that there is no need to make any accusations...as noted, it is simply their own words, quoted exactly...make of their words what you wish....IMO, it is very transparent for all DUers to read....

doesn't matter how long they have been here...or who they have for SO's or otherwise...all those arguments are thrown out to confuse and change-the-subject to trivial and irrelavent matters....most DUers recognize the ploy.....

You do like to drink the koolaide as long as the guy serving it up, describes its taste to you in appealing terms.

RC

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anti-NAFTA
anti-corp crime
antitrust
anti-war

But he won't do these things unless our voices are heard, so lay off.

If you really believe nothing is going to change then how is he our only hope?

In other words he won't fuck things up worse than they are already...then again...from the "more of the same" policies he puts forward...he ain't gonna change them to much either.


RC

It was hard enough to tolerate the Nader whiners when "all" it meant was supporting Dumbya and his cronies stealing 95% of the money in this country.

It's a whole new ballgame now. The Nader whiners are supporting the actions of a man that allowed US Armed Forces to become war criminals. See those prison pictures, Nader boy? That's your work. You got Gore beat, and you caused that to happen.

Get this neo-con propaganda out of here.

GFY:argh:

becomes President has an ugly mess on their hands. John Kerry is the best qualified to clean up this mess but it ain't going to be pretty.

If you think that ANYONE can swoop down and save the day, you are living in fantasyland.

If the Bush Fascist Movement is defeated at the polls.

Kerry is 1000% better than Bush

He may not be 10000% better like Dean or Kucinich or even Edwards (or Gore who would have been 1000000% better), but he will still be a huge step away from the genocidal Bush crime family whose roots go back to Hitler and the Nazis.

There will be Monster Joy if Bush goes down with Cheney and the Dems win.

Believe me

and if even I can express this joy with my reservations about Kerry (who has many many things in his favor) then you can count on it.

It will be a wonderful day.

And then the REAL work begins to rebuild the world equitably and wisely.

Defeating the worst of the enemy is always worth doing, and when the worst of the enemy is in power, is the unavoidable prerequisite to achieving anything further.

"People getting their fundamental interests wrong is what American political life is all about."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

and advocacy

If you haven't seen it yet, I recommend you pull up the C-Span website and watch it. He outlines his strategy quite clearly, and with a dignity that we should be grateful to have in the whitehouse.

John Kerry is a true statesman, capable of coping with the mess W has created. Will he be "perfect"? No, very few people are perfect. However, I think he's a damn sight better than the worst we could do.

In particular, we can expect immediate noticible improvements in
* international relations with Europe
* environmental policies
* judicial nominees

John Kerry isn't the sort of shitforbrains who would send a Central American death squad coach to be the ambassador to Iraq.

How old are you guys that make up this stuff?

seeding doubt is their approach...it worked well enough to get bush* into a position to STEAL the election in 2000....and obviously, they are working it again for the re-selection of the shrub...

amazingly, even some DUers fall for this stuff...it's all over DU, every single day...

like...what do you think about Kerry going to communion?
or...isn't Kerry's Iraq plan just like bush*'s?
or....Kerry is a waffle....
or.....Kerry has bad hair....
or....Kerry owns a house....
or....Kerry got a purple heart that he doesn't deserve...


it just makes me sick to read DUers falling all over these 'hey, why not re-select the bush*?'...it's the exact same approach used to slam GORE, and Max Cleland, and even John McCain...

...... kerry has an suv.....

christ....

Internationalist Movement" I sometimes read their commie rag, and it always has headlines like "United Snakes of AmeriKKKa" or "Death to U$ imperialism". They also call women wymyn.

and we can do nothing about this but maybe hold it up a little to see if we can sell this country, Iraq, off to the corp and keep control of the oil.It has been going on since WW2 and I do not think any one will stop it. Even a country like SA will only hold their own people back for a few more years. Well that is my take on things.I think Kerry will help it to get here faster than Bush but no one needs to go with me. It is what I think.We may have a great army but having only 5% of world pop will count more in the end.Bush is putting speed bumps in the road and I do not think Kerry will.

but he will make things better than they are now. Even though he's old and boring, that man has fought his whole life to make things better.

I think we will be much better off with John Kerry as president.

Now that the Dems and Repugs fit under the "one big tent" and agree on damned near everything but how much to screw us and the rest of the world, I'll be sitting this presidential farce out (or voting for whoever the Greens run). Fortunately, I have an anti-war senator and congressman to vote for who don't sell out at the drop of a poll number.

Hopefully it will be all "sunshine," but I have this sinking feeling:

---

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

eaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

---

Kerry is not Jesus Christ but he will do a 180 degree turn aaround from Bush.

that Kerry will be hamstrung and unable to fix anything.

Tucker

No one is "Happiness and Sunshine." No one can be unless we also sweep both the House and the Senate and a bunch of judges retire and Iraq cleans itself up and Osama gives up and...

But to not have Bush in there will be an improvement the magnitude of which I cannot put into words.

All things in moderation people, calm down.

How great the sunshine and happiness will feel when Kerry takes the Oath of Office,:)

Voting for Kerry is purely defensive (don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down defending against the Republican assault), but this in and of itself will not change anything in the long run. If real change is to happen, people need to start looking past the ballot box. It's fine to vote for Dems each election, but this alone will change nothing. I said it before and I'll say it again, we need long-term strategic organizing in the grass-roots (communities and the workplace), and we must have an international perspective. Elections must be seen as means to ends, not the ends themselves (and not even necessarily the best means).

I don't think trashing Kerry on this board will hurt him in the election. I think the Democrats can only benefit in the long-run from some serious self-criticism of the Party establishment.

and then get back to work. The corporatocracy wasn't built in a day, and it will take way longer than that to dismantle it. But it will be a little easier if Kerry's in charge.

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for years. Don't try this Stalinist BS on me.

enjoys....IMO, it's hard to find humor with a hobby of 'torturing small animals....

shocking, but I don't expect to be attacked as a right-winger simply because you do not share my dark sense of humor. Keep your opinions to the discussions at hand and give it a rest with the personal remarks. I don't give a damn about your personal opinion of me and neither does anyone else on this board. This board is suppossed to be about discussing political issues, not trading accusations or commenting on our profiles. By the way, although I didn't alert you to the mods, I see they are doing their job and removing your objectionable posts.

your profile is readily reviewed by all DUers...and you clearly state your hobby as "torturing small animals"....IMO, that is NOT humorous at all...



I have NOT called you a right-winger....

forum for political discussion, not whether you think my profile is distasteful or not. Puritanical garbage. Discuss politics here, not my profile. Bring it up with the admins if you think it's so out of line (I think that would be reprehensible on your part as well, but it's better than bringing it in as a red herring in a political debate in an effort to discredit me).

And for the record I think anyone who would torture a small animal is a piece of shit. But I've got a dark sense of humor. I suppose everyone who makes a joke you consider distasteful (distasteful, not racist or sexist) should be banned from DU. Toughen up. And again, it's not appropriate to bring up someone's profile into a political discussion in this forum.

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You have no idea who I am or what I've done in my life, but you're content to label me as part of the problem simply because I disagree with you? Why do you feel it necessary to resort to personal attacks, about your perception of what my politics are, how "transparent" I am, what I wrote in my profile? Can't you argue your point on the merits?

Even if you believe that Kerry is going to try and do everything he is for he still has to deal with a Repuke Congress that will hound his every step and try to run him in the ground and smear his name.

I am not just voting ABB though.

Yes, I have posted this stuff below before. But I think it is important to understand what is at state besides the noble goal of getting shrub out of office.

Kerry is not as liberal as Kuicinch or Nader that I will give the naysayers.

However, Kerry is more liberal than Clinton, Lieberbush, or the way the DLC ran Gore the last time.

After all, the idea of changing NAFTA has entered from the fringe of political discussion into the national debate. He has said he will not back the FTAA.

The idea of National Healthcare has entered back into the National debate in a way Gore would not approach last time.

We are now talking about a program of National Service where kids can get money for college WITHOUT having to carry a gun.

Kerry will not take a unilateral piss on our allies in his approach to foreign relations.

He will protect a woman's right to choose.

He has pledged to lift the gag order Bush enacted on family clinics.

He will fight for real environmental legislation instead of Orwellian giveaways to the corporate powers that be.

He has pledged to let the Patriot Act lapse.

He will take away the tax benefits for corporations that ship jobs overseas.

He has pledged to close corporate tax loopholes.

He wants to get rid of the tax cuts for the wealthy and stop the deficit leak.

He wants to fight for strong enforcement of Civil Rights Laws listing the ADA and reversing Buckhannon which makes enforcement of all Civil Rights laws difficult.

He will fully fund Head Start. (really important never been funded right)

He wants a College Opportunity Tax Credit to help people to be able to afford college.

He is the first national candidate to not only talk about cleaner fuels and reducing our dependence on foreign oil but to actually talk about loosing ourselves from the "demon oil."

He has a 90% lifetime record of voting with the AFL/CIO and stands beside the base of organized labor. He does not demonize teachers and workers.

This is a man who can change his mind and makes an informed decision.

+

:toast::thumbsup:
Although he wasn't my first choice, I sincerely believe that Kerry is a good man and will be a fine president. I'd vote for him even if I didn't believe that, since the alternative is unthinkable, but I really hate to see a good Democrat receiving these undeserved insults on a supposedly Democratic board.

I really, really don't understand those who are saying we're "screwed either way," or even those who say Kerry is the "lesser of two evils." Kerry is a liberal, folks! Not liberal enough for you? Want a "real" progressive? Well, I have my hopes and dreams, too, but in the meantime, we've got an election coming up in a few months -- one of perhaps unprecedented importance in our history. The reality is, after many decades of a very real and effective "vast right-wing conspiracy" to vilify strawman "liberals" and foist outrageous distortions of the liberal philosophy on the public, for us to hope for a massive leftward movement in a single election cycle is simply not realistic. Kerry is giving the Democratic Party a golden opportunity to prove that the majority of Americans are "liberal enough" to reject right-wing extremism. What difference does it make? Kerry's election will be an extremely significant defeat of the right-wing agenda, that's what. And it doesn't take a political science degree to figure out who wins if that happens.

We're supposed to be a democracy, right?
So let's do it.

but if Bush remains in power, it's more like 20.

So I support Kerry anyway.

So we are slightly optimistic over all :)

:eyes: WHAT would win/win look like? Just asking. :freak:

on the Doomsday clock? 11:59:59?

...the solution is to work like mad to elect Democrats to Congress this November! Don't just pull the Kerry lever and then sit back, hoping he can singlehandedly take on a Republican House and Senate. That's what Clinton had to do for his last six years -- and it wasn't surprising that he was forced to do a lot of compromise and "triangulation."

I suspect that John Kerry will be a much different president if he has the Democratic votes behind him to pass his proposals through Congress, rather than having to craft compromises that might get enough Republicans to cross-over and give him the votes to get it through the GOP minefield.