it's flag burnin' time again

some people use the upsidedown flag as a symbol that america is in serious trouble. the universal sign for emergency, the inverted flag. some folks like to burn flags, which are nothing but symbols, not objects of a holy nature. a flag is a rag, dyed certain colors and affixed with symbols and totems.

soldiers have always fought for flags, raised flags and rallied around flags, we plant flags to declare a whole continent belongs to us, we wave flags to show our alleged patriotism and we have a flag worshipping cult, that pledges alliegence, in classrooms and on the senate floor.

and now, it's flag BURNING time folks, go ahead, burn a flag. it's the universal symbol for america's outrageous decline into idiocy and jingoism and death cult status. our nation has brought great shame on itself since 2000. not you and me of course, we love our nation and hate to see it's tenets twisted this way.

america's symbol is just that. a symbol. and burning the symbol of america is just another way to say, 'hey america, snap out of your insanity for a while and shape up'.

tomorrow for the school. I dread it! All flag waving and America-Love it or Leave it sentiments. The music teacher is a major freeping Bush* supporter. All the students and teachers are required to wear read white and blue with buttons with "patriotic" slogans. I am refusing to wear the button I was given. It's propaganda. In fact, I may just call in sick tomorrow. I am sick - sick of the whole mess!

I'd be in trouble the first day that order was issued.

participation counts towards their music grade. Don't know how they are handling the Jehovah's Witness kids (we have several), because in the program the whole audience is led in the pledge to the flag by the students followed by the National Anthem. I'll have to see who doesn't pledge during the program.

If it is a public school I'd see a lawyer. One of the rights favorite arguments about having Prayer in Schools is that the kids who don't want to pray don't have to --- they can leave. This is the same thing. Patriotisim isn't mandatory - not for grades not for citizenship. This is such crap. Very misguided....by good people who think they are doing something good....but misguided none-the-less.

hell, our principal starts our staff meetings off with prayer! Went to the middle school for orientation the other day and one of the speakers was from the "Fellowship of Christian Students" who talked about, "Like we have praise and worship, like each morning, like and we drink Cokes, like, and have a Bible lesson, like and it's so much fun! Like, this is a great place to meet Chrstians, like it's so totally awesome!" Not exaggerating! there were prayer meeting signs all over the school. Honestly, here in Georgia (least the repug exurbs of Atlanta where I live)public schools ARE parochial schools.

but i think flag burning is wrong. it's our right, but i think it's wrong to do it. go burn an elephant, because your issue is with the bush administration and republicans, but not the flag.

is better than burning an endangered animal...

Burn an elephant?? WTF?

I'm all for people's right to burn the flag.
I think the idea of an ammendment prohibiting it is nonsense.
However, I think its a bad idea at this time - an idea that would not help your cause one bit.
People will frown on it - the right will spin it as unpatriotic during this time of war when we have troops being killed daily.
Its a no win idea.

Or you could write a letter to the editor of your local paper saying that eveyone responsible for the abuses should be punished, and not just the six Reservists who have been charged.

And that we need new laws for checks and balances in the treatment of prisnoners to prevent this sort of thing.

It represents my love of country, not love of this administration. But, I don't care what you do to your manufactured piece of cloth. Mine waves for the finest ideals that most of us in this country strive for. Bush and his ilk can't stop me from loving America, and loving our democracy. That's what mine represents to me, an optimism and hope that our country will live up to those ideals. I still have hope for the future. My flag will forever wave as a harbinger of that hope. (alongside my peace flag)

The flag doesn't represent our government for a lot of people. It represents liberty and justice.

that otherwise would be on our side.

start flying a black flag with silver teardrops on it. On the car, in front of the house.

Local stuff - 200 or so people...

We always would fly this huge American flag behind the stage...

Our philosophy was, that that is "our" flag too...even though we were there to drink beer, take acid, and smoke pot...

But to us...it stood for everything that we love about our country...the music, the people, the love. We made it stand for us...

But I'd be happy to burn one - for the right reasons...



http://mercersburg.com/hexagon/hexbelt2/index.htm

it is to burn a flag.

I don't care which side of the political spectrum you are on, unless you are an anarchist, burning a flag in a public display will instantaneously put your message out of the forum, and you will be subject to attack from every quarter.

I will defend the right to burn a flag; but it has NEVER drawn anyone
to a cause, it has always repelled people here in America. As progressive as I am, I still revere the symbolism the flag has. I have, and always will, understand what it stands for...Freedom and Liberty.

Go ahead, burn a flag...no one will listen to your message, and you will be reviled...:(

dont burn it fly it upside down<>
My son just informed me that he will be going back to Irak in the fall! Very comforting to hear that the last time he was there from April to Sept he did a lot of nothing since the Army did not deploy enough troops to actually secure the country as advised by former CSA Gen Shinseki who was dissed by Rumsfeld as being to over cautious and we dont need near that many!

We need to organize a freedom of the press march against all of the major news outlets to demand the end of political censorship! Last friday I searched and found it hard to find the story about the decertification of the Diebold one arm bandit voting machines in California hidden away from the main pages the story was political hot potato that no one liked to cover!
From Amb Joe Wilson's interview this AM http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4880116
AMB. WILSON: Actually, I haven't asked Bob Novak to reveal his sources. And I think you can understand after you interviewed Mr. Woodward last week that when 75 people speak to Mr. Woodward with the authorization of the president and only two of them want to be identified, you can imagine that those who have other information but are fearful of what the White House might do, they also do not want to be identified. And I say that because, of course, I mention in the book that there are also reports from journalists back to me that they're fearful of writing these stories. One journalist said because he was afraid he would end up in Guantanamo, which is basically I think a metaphor for their being cut off. Another one said that, of course, they had two children in private schools and a mortgage. Now, I've since heard from other journalists that even the most mildly critical articles about this administration yield top-level phone calls back to their editors including phone calls from Mr. Libby himself to their editors.



<>
win win situation for Skull'N'Bones <>

Yeah, burn American flags!

It sounds like a great way to make undecided voters distrust Kerry and vote Bush.

Great idea -- so great it's worthy of an agent provocateur.

I'll leave mine up on the poll, with a Kerry yard-sign below. Flag burning got us ten yrs in Vietnam.

It's time to wave the flag, I think, not burn it -- time to ask the question, and demand an answer of those now in power, "Does that star-spangled banner yet wave, o'er the land of the FREE..."? SHAME on the Bush cabal for what they are doing under the banner of our flag!

I don't favor flying the flag from every orifice either. I'm not for nationalism, and I think flying the flag from your car looks narcissistic. but while I am sympathetic to flag burners, I don't see what can be gained, and there is much to be lost.

It's tough, I really want to do it.

--IMM

Somebody suggested that as an alternative yesterday. It makes sense. That's the problem, at least right now.

Sounds like a promising idea... The "burning bush."

proof that everything you said was true.
Nationalism in our own party means nothing will ever change.

of any kind. i won't recite the pledge, and i won't stand up when i hear the anthem at a ballpark and hold my hand over my heart.

right now, america is doing some shit that really sucks and this nation is going to hell, and some serious flag burning needs to be done. fuck a flag. a flag is a rag. it's nationalism, not patriotism you feel when you see a flag.

MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE DIED UNDER THIS FLAG, LOOK IT UP.
AND IT'S STILL GOING ON.

oh, and by the way, i agree with you samadhi.

I don't like the idea of pledging allegiance to a flag, because I believe we are citizens of the world. I stand at ballgames and during pledges, but I don't sing the anthem or anything like that.

I also don't like many things we have done in this country in the name of patriotism.

However, the reason I wouldn't burn a flag or desecrate it is because of what it represents to other people. Many people have an emotional connection to the flag, and I think those actions provoke the wrong reaction in them.

Just my 2 cents. :)

PS I don't fly any flag, but I was thinking of getting a world one. Then, of course, people think I'm some advocate of a new world order, or something. I'm not. I've just done a lot of travel and lived abroad, and I just feel more a part of the world than of just my country.

(edited for spelling)

Flag burning, abortion, marriage. If he had his way there would be more amendments in his term than there have been for the past 50 years. He treats the Constitution like it was a shopping list.

It means some people are able to put the goal of getting this nutball out of office ABOVE temporary feel-good antics. Would you suggest peeing in the face of every person who disagrees with you? Burning the flag accomplishes the exact same thing.

it's unsanitary and a personal insult, like spitting in someone's face. i saw photos today of a british soldier pissing in the face of an iraqi p.o.w. i certainly wouldn't want an iraqi to piss in the face of an american p.o.w. and i certainly would burn the flag of any nation, who's military treats p.o.w.'s in this barbarian manner.

burning flags harms no one. pissing in faces does.

That's my point. If you want people to hear you, peeing in their faces isn't likely to get them to listen.

You should fly your flag above an impeach bush
sign ...

Based on the upsidedown flag meaning "distress", how would someone know if a Japanese person is in need of assistance?

And, no. Flag-burning is not the answer. Free speech, sure it is. However it doen't play well in most American homes. Counter-productive.

and no amount of burning flags will settle anything. it only brings up the ugly fact that we are a nation of murderers. i don't support murdering innocents. i also don't plan on burning any flags, but someone soon will, i just know it. america the beautiful was all over when those photos came out the other day.

I KNOW IT WILL PISS PEOPLE OFF, that's the whole point, doing something shocking and repulsive, that doesn't hurt a soul.
that flag represents evil right now. america is doing awful evil things under that flag.

not just the evils of this administration, which are many. The Republicans can't have MY flag. I'm taking it back from them, as I'm tired of the abuse.

But I see your point, Mo. The rest of the world sees our flag and associates it with the government. That's unfortunate, to say the least, but I'll never see it that way. People SHOULD be pissed off right now and many are. I just see Americans burning the flag as more of a polarizing statement, even though I understand the frustration and outrage behind it.

You didn't answer my question about the Japanese flag, though. ;)

No, it doesn't. People have strayed from its real meaning, though, for sure.

If it represents evil to people now, it's our job to make it represent good. If someone doesn't like this country, they should change it (note that this is the opposite of the conservative "love it or leave it" position). It's much harder than just burning the flag like "hey, at least I don't like what's going on". I think flag-burning displays an irresponsible position regarding one's citizenship.

...they taught us flag handling, folding, history, etc. and they told us about what u.s. soldiers did with their parachutes if stranded on an island. they'd make a big ol flag, with the proper number of red and white stripes, and if it wasn't the correct number of red and white stripes, they'd get bombed.

if a japanese person is in need of assistance, and he has no flag, hell, i don't know what he's supposed to do. yell?

when i see people burning flags, i'm never offended. not even the u.s. flag. don't see why people get all upset, it's just a political statement, complaining about bad government policies.

I'm not offended when I see someone protest by burning a flag either. I just know that you & I are in the minority when it comes to such displays. It's not going to win anyone over, and usually results in the opposite.

or sewing a peace sign over the top of it.

Seems like people would get the idea that you for peace instead of destruction - unless you are for destruction. And then I guess burning the flag would be as good a symbol of that as anything.

we are killing real, live people, they bleed, they hurt, they suffer, and they are innocent of any crime against america.

in america, we are not supposed to invade poor nations and kill innocent people, and i will not worship a rag dyed red white and blue and get all teary eyed when i see it on a pole. i see dead people by the thousands when i see the flag. soldiers, civilians, babies, mothers and innocents. some estimate we've slaughtered 20,000 innocents since 9-11. waving a peace sign is o.k., but as pointless as waving a flag or burning one.

I really don't understand why people think that accomplishes anything. It's a simple stunt, meant only for the gratification of the burner. The truth is that no one owns my flag, and no one owns yours.

I choose to look at the flag and weigh the good with the bad, understanding that no matter how bad we screw up, there is always a day when we figure out our mistakes. So I keep flying it, hopeful.

I don't take joy when a small group hurts the integrity of my nation, nor do I blame the whole nation for that grave mistake. We are all different. Most are good natured. Some are bad seeds. No nation is perfect.

But I do know one thing, we'll survive. One step at a time.

when a democratic politician EVER does something cowardly, such as vote for concentration camps or another illegal war, I better not see any flag cultists here complain.
I can't even comprehend how so many people seem to calculate every action in their lives in some fantasy that it will affect national politics.
If I get out of the right side of bed, WHAT WILL REPUBLICANS THINK??
If I brush my teeth counter-clockwise, WHAT WILL REPUBLICANS THINK>>
Damn, not everything has to be "for the cause," or "what will people think of me?"

I think if one ever gets the urge to burn the flag, then the flag needs to be redefined in one's mind. The flag represents much more than the fleeting actions of one, two, or even five presidential administrations or Congresses.

Think bigger. Don't burn a real symbol of what is good and right because of the trespasses of misguided or evil men who happen to be in power.

The flag represents an idea.

Remember 2000 Bush defended the Confederate flag in SC

Exactly what is wrong with 5th graders wearing the red, white and blue, waving the flag and being patriotic? One of the greatest joys of my life has been teaching my son to be patriotic and to love our country.

it's the constitution office holders are sworn to uphold, not the flag.

the flag become a casually desecrated talisman, as evidened by the dozen that have blown off cars that i've found in gutters.

Bush talks a lot about the flag. But he wouldn't defend it when the chance came during Vietnam.

I don't see where setting a flag on fire is any more or less disrespectful than stapling one above your garage door with a staple gun and letting it hang there through snow, rain, whatever weather ... become bleached out and haggard, hitting it with your car every time you pull in and out of the garage.

Not that I don't think burning a flag also is disrespectful -- but it's knowingly disrespectful, and those who do it know it is, and are being disrespectful to the symbol for a reason -- this is why I can't say it's always wrong.

Stapling a flag above your garage door is a thoughtless, desecratory act, but some of my neighbors (most of whom are more than old enough to know better, and many of whom probably think the only people who desecrate the flag are those who set it on fire) have done just that.

Greens have staged very effective demos washing red food coloring out of flags.

If you don't like what the country's doing, it's your job to change it. If the flag gets a bad reputation, it's yours to fix. Flag-burning is a bratty excuse for activism; it's completely masturbatory. Fuck it.

to discredit us.. no doubt.

It is our flag.
They are the ones desecrating it.
Those who know what it stands for should get one high.

The flag didn't cause all this misery,Bush and Cheney did. Kind of like smacking the dog when your pissed at someone else....

David