OK, 60 Minutes, it is TIME...to bury BBV.

And I mean Diebold. Don't you guys read the news? You have had some great shows recently: Iraq, O'Neil, Clarke.

I hope your near-term schedule includes Joe Wilson and Bev Harris.
Bev has quite a story to tell. Do you dare let her?



..................................................................

Trusted Agent Report Diebold AccuVote-TS Voting System January 20 ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... on the presumed integrity of the DIEBOLD software and ... mitigated by the openness of the voting booth and ... card makes when ejected from the AccuVote-TS machine. ...
www.raba.com/press/TA_Report_AccuVote.pdf - Similar pages

Tri-Valley Herald Online - Local & Regional News
... counties hadn't been trained on ways around their failure, and San ... whether to disallow or "decertify" some or all of Diebold's voting machines -- or electronic ...
www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86~10669~2100333,00.html - 65k - May 1, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

SignOnSanDiego.com > News > Politics -- Some votes miscounted in ...
... Your failure to provide such a system in the March ... He said he believes the Diebold machines could be used ... we have a reliable and trouble-free voting system in ...
www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20040408-9999-1m8vote.html - 25k - Cached - Similar pages

Ban on voting machine urged | The San Diego Union-Tribune
... the AccuVote-TSx system, made by Diebold Election Systems Inc ... As a result of the machines' failures, potentially thousands of voters were unable to ...
www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040423/news_1n23evote.html - 23k - Cached - Similar pages
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PBS | I, Cringely . Archived Column
... In this instance, the issue isn't whether Diebold and the ... of the key issues in touch screen voting is the ... There is no print-out from the machine, no receipt ...
www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20031204.html - 17k - May 1, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

CNN.com - E-voting developers on the defensive - Apr 26, 2004
... Despite reassurances from the machines' makers, at least 20 ... requiring a paper record of every vote cast. ... unanimously recommended banning a popular Diebold Inc. ...
www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/04/26/electronic.voting.ap/ - 52k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

State of Maryland Voting Machine Risk Assessment
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
www.dbm.maryland.gov/dbm_search/technology/toc_voting_system_report/ http://votingsystemreportfinal.pdf - Similar pages

Global Exchange : Diebold apologizes for failure
... We apologize for that," Urosevich said of the mass failures of devices ... to disallow or "decertify" some or all of Diebold's voting machines -- or electronic ...
www.globalexchange.org/countries/unitedstates/democracy/1772.html - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

Global Exchange : Voters short changed at the polls
... It wasn't the first time that voting systems not fully tested ... also gave one-time approval recently for Diebold's latest touchscreen machine, even though ...
www.globalexchange.org/countries/unitedstates/democracy/1718.html - 32k - Cached - Similar pages
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Wired News: Con Job at Diebold Subsidiary
... The former GES is Diebold's wholly owned subsidiary, Global ... more than 50,000 touch-screen machines used in precincts nationwide to delete or alter votes. ...
www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html - 22k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Wired News: For Brazil Voters, Machines Rule
... called, a backup in case of power failures. ... the Brazilian government, these electronic voting machines were made ... company now owned by Diebold Election Systems. ...
www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,61654,00.html - 25k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
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InfoWorld: California officials reject Diebold e-voting machine ...
... The panel also cited the system's failure to receive ... powers to regulate the use of e-voting machines. Diebold representatives did not immediately return a call ...
www.infoworld.com/article/04/04/22/HNevotereject%20_1.html - Similar pages

St. Petersburg Times Online: Business
... 4,000 older machines from Diebold and 24,000 ... reflects growing concern about paperless electronic voting. ... of failures involving touchscreen machines in Georgia ...
http://customwire.ap.org/ dynamic/stories/E/ELECTRONIC_VOTING?SITE=FLPET&SECTION=BUSINESS - 35k - May 1, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Scoop: Bev Harris: Diebold Rebuttals Don't Stand Up
... 4) Diebold software undergoes a series of certification processes. ... 7) "If there is a failure or a ... a laptop to the voting booth and modified the voting machine. ...
www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00224.htm - 48k - May 1, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Scoop: Georgia/Diebold Voting Machine Investigation IVs
... up or there were other failures, and there ... Southworth has been involved with voting machine software testing for ... Elections System has been acquired by Diebold". ...
www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0302/S00111.htm - 93k - May 1, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
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Black Box Voting: Ballot - Tampering in the 21st Century
... legislation denying use of the machines in California ... to boot up devices--called voter-card encoders ... Diebold Election Systems failed to submit its encoders for ...
www.blackboxvoting.com/ - 70k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Black Box Voting: Ballot - Tampering in the 21st Century - Bev ...
... from peddling its worthless voting machines to the ... The complaint documents Diebold's fraudulent and deceptive ... California election official's failure to enforce ...
www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=157 - 27k - May 1, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
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Why War? California Set to Reject Diebold E-Voting Machines
... updates were being sent to the voting machines only two ... The Tribune cites a former Diebold employee who confirms ... The terminals had failure rates of 24 per cent ...
www.why-war.com/news/2004/04/24/californ.html - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

Why War? Keywords: Diebold Inc.
... represent a single point of failure for the ... a pattern of compromised voting machine exploits throughout ... and specifically involving the Diebold machines in the ...
www.why-war.com/encyclopedia/organizations/Diebold_Inc./ - 28k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
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Machine Politics
File Format: Microsoft Word 2000 - View as HTML
... couple of touch-screen voting machine 'failures,' which have ... for the touch-screen voting machines Philadelphia County ... County did not purchase Diebold machines. ...
www.truemajority.org/document.cfm?documentID=20 - Similar pages

Electronic voting machines dealt blow / Panel wants to pull plug ...
... A Diebold spokesman conceded that some voters might have been turned away by the failure of the company's machines but blamed some of the glitches on poll ...
http://tinyurl.com/ywtx7 - 59k - Cached - Similar pages

Inside Bay Area - News
... We apologize for that," Urosevich said of the mass failures of devices ... to disallow or "decertify" some or all of Diebold''s voting machines -- or electronic ...
www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_cps_64896 - 52k - Cached - Similar pages

Inside Bay Area - Home
... centers not on standards but on Diebold's failure to meet them ... to bar some or all Diebold products -- or perhaps all touchscreen voting machines -- from the ...
www.insidebayarea.com/ci_cps_64644 - 50k - Cached - Similar pages
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Voting Machines - News and Latest Information
... Diebold apologizes for failure 23 Apr 2004 ... some or all of Diebold's voting machines -- or electronic ... decertified a modern, electronic-voting machine since the ...
www.inboxrobot.com/ newsletter.php3?brief_name=Voting+Machines&brief_id=10017&offset=50 - 62k - Cached - Similar pages

Campaign for Verifiable Voting
... Numerous reports have found Diebold machines and other computer voting systems vulnerable to error and tampering. In spite of the machine failures, the state ...
www.truevotemd.org/ - 27k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

TrueVoteMD Seeks Provisional Paper Ballots on March 2
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... Inside actors include Diebold employees, state or local election officials and ... Conclusion: Maryland voters will not be voting on secure machines during this ...
www.truevotemd.org/2004-02-19_letter_SBE.pdf - Similar pages
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VotingMachineCompanies
... Bob is currently president of Diebold (see below ... influence) source: http://www.talion.com/election-machines.html: ... their
equipment would be counting votes in 1988 ...
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Voting Security
... Machine Fiasco: SAIC, VoteHere and Diebold...Scam To ... Use machines & Internet to vote - this prohibits ... Encourage absentee voting - the chain of custody is lost. ...
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California County Demands Answers From Diebold 'Not Adequately ...
... Systems & Software and Diebold Election Systems ... unapproved software in four counties' electronic voting machines. ... industry experts and e-voting critics could ...
www.rense.com/general50/dib.htm - 17k - Cached - Similar pages

Two Voting Companies And Two Brothers Will Count 80% Of The US ...
... been caught installing uncertified software in their machines. ... in her book, Black Box Voting, "...one of ... original software now used by Diebold Election Systems ...
www.rense.com/general52/bros.htm - 18k - May 1, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
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Greenwich Time - Town conducts tests of electronic voting machines
... LHS will replace the machine that day. Diebold Systems also makes the electronic voting machines that were presented last night. ...
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The New York Times > Opinion > Making Votes Count: A Compromised ...
... equipment breakdowns was the failure of machine ... that by 2006, every electronic voting machine in California ... of one model of Diebold machine whose certification ...
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Election Law: "Diebold Apologizes for Failure"
... April 22, 2004. "Diebold Apologizes for Failure". The Oakland Tribune offers this report, which also covers a hearing on electronic voting machines by the ...
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E-voting smooth on Super Tuesday | CNET News.com
... Diebold's Bear said Tuesday that "electronic voting has broken ... that six of 88 counties use electronic voting machines. ... You find out whether a machine hasn't ...
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Voting machine fails inspection | CNET News.com
... it had signed a $55.6 million deal with Diebold for the ... the operator's count, then the votes on that machine would be thrown out and those voters allowed to ...
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BlackBoxVoting.org
... poor quality controls and the failure of the ... Administrator Linda Lamone, who purchased Diebold invisible ballot ... not be privy to their voting machine purchases. ...
www.blackboxvoting.org/ - 99k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

AgBlog – Diebold Voting Machine Fiasco
... Touch screen voting machines by Diebold are fraught with errors, have huge failure rates (as much as 75% in some cases), have not undergone independent outside ...
http://agblog.com/entry/556 - 12k - Cached - Similar pages

We proposed to use three methods to test the Diebold DRE
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... Prince George’s counties with acceptance testing of the Diebold AccuVote-TS voting system using ... are as follows: • One of the two machines we tested ...
www.cs.umd.edu/~bederson/voting/umd-dre-report.pdf - Similar pages

Geek.com Geek News - Fraud feared in electronic voting machines
... tests and have corrected all discovered failures/bugs." But ... are easily hacked seems rediculous." Diebold uses MS Access for the voting machine's DB software ...
www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2003Oct/gee20031009022127.htm - 89k - Cached - Similar pages

Cincinnati CityBeat : 02/11/2004 : Statehouse
... diplomatic in both cases (of machine failure), offering the ... Like Kucinich, electronic voting watchdog Bev Harris has ... from inside the walls of Diebold and the ...
www.citybeat.com/2004-02-11/statehouse.shtml - 26k - Cached - Similar pages

ITworld.com - Diebold voting documents case tests DMCA
... Nevertheless, the electronic-voting activists are not ... have the ability to post Diebold documents without fear ... of downed networks, system failures, disk overload ...
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ITworld.com - Diebold won't sue voting rights activists
... and irregularities with certifying the machines for actual ... the internal information about the voting systems. ... Diebold hopes to settle the lawsuit, company ...
www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/031203diebold/ - 40k - May 1, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
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State official slams electronic voting machine maker
... and San Diego counties - a failure that prevented ... banning the use of electronic voting machines in the ... Shelley's office began investigating Diebold five months ...
www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/news/local/ 8486815.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp - 5k - Cached - Similar pages

Two voting companies & two brothers will count 80 percent of US ...
... Both ES&S and Diebold have been caught installing uncertified software in their machines. ... process that will protect against vote rigging or technical ...
www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html - 32k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Calif. Official Bans Some Voting Machines
... At least 50 million voters were expected to use the ATM-like machines from Diebold and other companies in November. Free Daily Email News. ...
www.allheadlinenews.com/cgi-bin/news/news.cgi?id=1083360650 - 51k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Signs of the Times - Computerized Voting Machines Raise Tampering ...
... Diebold machines). Further, Harris claims that software errors or mechanical failures have caused problems in more than 100 elections where voting machines ...
www.loper.org/~george/trends/2004/Apr/984.html - 6k - Cached - Similar pages

EFF: Flawed E-Voting Standard Sent Back to Drawing Board
... These machines produce a paper ballot for each ... its equivalent, in all electronic voting systems ... confirmed earlier concerns about Maryland's Diebold voting system ...
www.eff.org/Activism/E-voting/20030926_eff_pr.php - 13k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

EFF: Verify the Vote!
... There are widespread reports of voting terminal failures, and growing concern about ... report on the security flaws in the Diebold voting machines; (Dr. Rubin's ...
www.eff.org/e-vote/ - 13k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages
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California officials reject Diebold e-voting machine ...
... The panel also cited the system's failure to receive ... powers to regulate the use of e-voting machines. Diebold representatives didn't immediately return a call ...
www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/policy/story/0,10801,92637,00.html - 50k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Diebold Election Systems - AccuVote-TS Product Information
Diebold, Diebold Election Systems Solutions, ... Other Exclusive Features. No single point of failure. ... Private voting for the visually impaired. Internal battery backup. ...
www.diebold.com/dieboldes/accuvote_ts.htm - 44k - Cached - Similar pages

Mercury News | 02/01/2004 | Electronic voting's hidden perils
... but relied on assurances by Diebold it was ... have difficulty tracking exactly what their voting-equipment company ... tabs on modifications to the machines or their ...
www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/7849090.htm - 63k - Cached - Similar pages

Analysis of an Electronic Voting System
... with the number of ballots cast on the voting machines. ... Even though Diebold criticizes our report for not ... questions they should be asking voting system vendors ...
http://avirubin.com/vote/response.html - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

Analysis of an Electronic Voting System
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... and would increase the chances that a hardware failure could cause recorded votes to be lost. N ETWORK OVERVIEW . The Diebold voting machines cannot work in ...
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Democracy at Risk
... And how many failures weren't caught? Internal e-mail from Diebold, the most prominent maker of electronic voting machines (though not those in the Florida and ...
www.commondreams.org/views04/0123-03.htm - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

Georgia's “Faith-Based” Electronic Voting System: Something's ...
... to protect voters from fraud, machine failure, ‘Trojan Horse ... be that the electronic voting machines are yet ... Finally, with Diebold now controlling Georgia’s ...
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Electronic Voting
... A well-balanced overview of voting security threats and ... Usability Review of the Diebold DRE system ... provides an early indication of machine failures with the ...
www.notablesoftware.com/evote.html - 96k - Cached - Similar pages

Liberation News Service: A Compromised Voting System
... machine manufacturers to have voting machines properly certified ... introducing the possibility of vote tampering, or ... second report singles out Diebold, a leading ...
www.mindspace.org/liberation-news-service/archives/000771.html - 13k - Cached - Similar pages

PCWorld.com - E-Ballots: Will Your Vote Count?
... already built in against fraud and failure, including standardized federal ... The nation's three largest voting machine makers--ES&S, Diebold, and Sequoia ...
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Who Makes the Voting Machines
... Accuvote machines appear to have "back door" mechanisms which may allow reprogramming after votes have been ... Diebold's Accuvote machines were developed ...
www.whoseflorida.com/voting_machines-a.htm - 52k - Cached - Similar pages

newsobserver.com - California bans touchscreen voting in four ...
... involved 4,000 older machines from Diebold and 24,000 ... concern about paperless electronic voting not just ... of failures involving touchscreen machines in Georgia ...
www.newsobserver.com/24hour/nation/story/1333678p-8508369c.html - 37k - May 1, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Mischievous Ramblings: A Secure Voting Machine
... blog entry I opined that Diebold has to ... of what a functional and secure voting machine might look like ... Because of the possibility of machine failure, some extra ...
www.enginesofmischief.com/blogs/ramblings/archives/000176.php - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Mischievous Ramblings: Diebold, Redux
... The fact that Diebold is led by Republican stalwarts and that legislation to open voting machines to independent ... to close ranks and a failure to realize ...
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Salon.com Technology | Will the election be hacked?
... of computer scientists say that voting systems are ... security flaws in the Diebold machines, concluding that ... in Maryland, discovered additional failures in that ...
www.salon.com/tech/feature/2004/02/09/voting_machines/ - 37k - Cached - Similar pages

zestyping: Publicize Diebold's failures.
... Publicize Diebold's failures. There were serious problems with the touchscreen voting machines in the California primary election, but of course Diebold went ...
www.livejournal.com/users/zestyping/39042.html - 14k - Cached - Similar pages

Alameda County (CA) calls out Diebold execs
File Format: Unrecognized - View as HTML
... But it was the failure of the voter-card encoders that ... and Diebold Election Systems -- also are imperiling that trust by ... counties' electronic voting machines. ...
www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg111397.html - Similar pages

Software Development Online: Vote Early, Vote Often
... followed by a number of DRE voting machine failures and political shenanigans, including the 2002 midterm Georgia elections, in which Diebold DRE voting ...
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Boing Boing: New voting machines are criminally bad
... the news that the computerized voting machines in use ... but deliberately so, because insecure machines are easier for the techs from Diebold and other ...
http://boingboing.net/2003/09/22/new_voting_machines_.html - 25k - Cached - Similar pages

Q & A: Two sides of electronic voting issue
... address the now-documented and known failures of paperless ... has mandated that all Nevada voting machines be equipped ... a study that called the Diebold system "a ...
www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0204/15votingqa.html - 34k - Cached - Similar pages

Freedom to Tinker: California to Require E-Voting Paper Trail
... We do it the Diebold way for the ... class which must be considered: Procedural failures: Legally, an ... a specific procedure: eg the voting machine software must be ...
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Md. Plans Vote System Fixes After Criticisms (washingtonpost.com)
... election, the four Maryland counties using the Diebold machines in a ... modem at the close of the voting day ... Further, it recommended, and Diebold agreed, that the ...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60825-2003Sep24.html - Similar pages

Democratic Underground Forums - Who counts the votes?
... the machines have been thwarted by Diebold's contract language in the states where the machines are used ... accurate and honest counting of votes that is ...
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x112893 - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

Democratic Underground Forums - BBV - 2 new bombshell articles hit ...
... about the poor quality controls and the failure of the ... not going to get fired.'" snip Diebold's claims to ... according to Dunn and electronic-voting opponent Jim ...
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Planetside Universe - Another Big Surprise: Diebold ...
... credibility if they don't decertify Diebold machines and go ... Stor...2100333,00.html Excerpt: Diebold Election Services Inc ... the largest rollout of e-voting in the ...
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MachineFailures - Diebold-CD Wiki
... news stories and accounts of failures of electronic ... the problem to officials with Diebold, the maker ... the machines, who programmed the voting machines this week ...
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California Voter Foundation - CVF-NEWS
... the state's most essential certification rules, the registrars of voters from four ... are still hoping to use thousands of Diebold's new machine, the TSx in ...
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Douglas W. Jones on the Diebold FTP Story
... of fraud or evidence of quality-control failures (an ISO ... of dynamic linkage are made by Diebold's voting system ... linkage to code added to the machine later, for ...
www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/voting/dieboldftp.html - 101k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

bIPlog: Diebold Latest: The Effects of Student Spread Memos on CA ...
... vendors and other counties once the Diebold investigation was ... Failure to do so may result in de ... It's widely believed by voting machine makers that Secretary of ...
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00-blank
... machine, I will never be sure my vote was registered ... Diebold can count my deposits to the exact penny ... box as a safe guard against machine failure; a miserable ...
www.bartcop.com/032904otter.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages

Alameda County Warns E-Voting Corporaton Diebold : SF Bay Area ...
... user of Diebold touchscreen voting machines in California ... elections officials found uncertified voting software running ... all other counties that Diebold serves. ...
www.indybay.org/news/2004/03/1675129.php - 28k - Cached - Similar pages

The Political Machine - The Power of the Presidency Can Be Yours!
... and insist on a open and verifiable voting system BEFORE ... you'll find several articles on Diebold and the "Tru ... Want your own article on The Political Machine ? ...
www.politicalmachine.com/ - 36k - Cached - Similar pages

voting machines fraud in 2000 - allnurses.com - Nursing Discussion ... ~It's how you deal with failure that determines how you achieve success ... The head of a company vying to sell voting machines (Diebold) in Ohio ...
http://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63490 - 68k - Cached - Similar pages

ElectricNews.net:News:Research says US e-voting is insecure
... have pressed the 'Cast Vote' button, the machine is automatically ... US state of Maryland submitted an order to Diebold for electronic voting equipment order ...
www.enn.ie/news.html?code=9369697 - 21k - Cached - Similar pages

DIEBOLD INC Information at Business.com
... to cast their ballots in November.Now, a series of failures in primaries ... NORTH CANTON, Ohio April 20 Automated teller and voting machine maker Diebold Inc ...
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'Gouging' memo leaves Diebold red-faced
... Diebold has said that the cost of the printers included in a voting machine would run about $1,000 to $1,200, which may seem a bit high for a pretty simple ...
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simontemplar's Xanga Site
... flashing mock-up of a malfunctioning Diebold voting terminal as TrueMajority organizers detailed the long list of failures by Diebold's machines in states ...
www.xanga.com/home.aspx?user=simontemplar - 44k - Apr 30, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages

Part One: Will Your Vote Count?
... There's always the possibility of equipment failure. ... In the voting machine business for only two years, Diebold has become a major player. ...
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Verified Voting - Campaign To Demand Verifiable Election Results
... by WLBT Mississippi: After failures by election ... government would take against Diebold for violating ... certify the company's latest touch-screen voting machines. ...
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Verified Voting - Campaign To Demand Verifiable Election Results
... 14-thousand Touch Screen Voting Machines FOX News/Sacramento The machines are made by Diebold Elections Systems ... Fairfax Voting Machines A 'Failure' GOP Says ...
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Guardian Unlimited | Guardian daily comment | Engel in America ...
... Nine of Diebold's 12 directors are listed as Republican donors. ... where more than 80% of the votes last November were counted on machines produced by ...
www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,893701,00.html - 36k - Cached - Similar pages

Diebold Election Systems - Disinfopedia
... Bob Urosevich, CEO of Diebold Election Systems is also the founder of ES&S, a competing voting machine company now ... for tallying around 80% of votes cast in ...
www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Diebold_Election_Systems - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

baltimoresun.com - Security measures urged for voting machines
... Those passwords were included in Diebold code that was ... We are risking a catastrophic failure," she said. ... decreed that its electronic voting machines would have ...
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9th District Democratic Committee:
... by restrictive voter registration procedures, failure of antiquated ... on the company’s voting machine riddled with ... possible tempering with Diebold’s 22,000 ...
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The Risks of Electronic Voting
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... s Our democracy is depending on these machines! ... testing authoritities (ITAs) x Diebold certified despite ... x Adding wireless capabilities to voting terminals? ...
www.cs.rice.edu/~dwallach/talks/e-voting-risks-4up.pdf - Similar pages

nerdherd.com :: View topic - E-Voting Machines and Fuzzy Math
... Another suggests blaming the failure of defective equipment on customers ... are even memos about questionable activity involving Diebold voting machines used in ...
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April 23, 2004
... At present, the state's Diebold voting machines are not set up ... paper records are unnecessary because the Diebold system is equipped to preserve votes in its ...
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Off the Kuff: Guess what? There's an electronic voting machine ...
... voting machines, including the eSlate machines used in ... reviewed Hart InterCivic, Diebold Election Systems, Election ... can be accessed by voters and disconnected. ...
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Whistle Ass / George Bush 2004: Voting machine voodoo: Democracy ...
... researcher inadvertently came across unprotected voting system files on the website of Diebold Election Systems, the leading voting machine manufacturer, and ...
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www.delawareonline.com : The News Journal : LOCAL : States rethink ... ... a backup in case of equipment failure or disputed ... The Diebold machines also use electronic
"smart cards" that are ... who place them in the voting machine to cast ...
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MediaChannel.org - A Global Network of More Than 1,000 Media ...
... the story of mainstream broadcast media's failure to cover e ... her own investigation of e-voting machines in 2002 and soon found that Diebold Corporation, a ...
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=688282

So that they cannot say...BBV what is that?

to walk over a cliff.

Not off a cliff, we want him to go on trial. We want him to TALK!

I am delighted to see that my state is bringing charges against Diebold.

:)

They will cheat no matter what system is in place. We need to watch them more closely and not hope for some magic wand solution to the problem. A verified paper trail can cause as many problems as it solves. The problem is, no one investigates when there are discrepancies. Duval county in Florida was filthy with overvotes. There were accounts of ballots so obviously tampered with that even Republicans would have to admit it. Combine that with the fact that not even NORC was given all of Duval County's ballots to count, and you have more circumstantial evidence to justify an investigation than they did to investigate OJ.

Yet no one does it. Verifiable paper trails, BBVs, punch cards, scans, whatever... If nothing is investigated after improprieties are found, then no system matters. With a paper trail, you run the risk of the paper and the machine not matching. In that case, what do you believe? The losing side will always believe the one that favored them. If you trust the paper, then the cheaters will tamper with the paper (they will have the machines and codes to run off new ballots if they have to). If you trust the machines, they will tamper with the machines.

Every system we develop will have inherent flaws, and if our main focus is on stamping out those flaws, we will be going from system to system to system every four years, searching for the Holy Grail of uncheatable machines, and never finding it. We should concentrate on forcing honest investigations, instead.

Bev's done great work, nothing I'm saying criticizes her work. Good luck to her in her current problems. I hope she has a system to check in regularly in case she disappears. They have the power now to arrest people in the dead of night these days.

than physically.

A paper trail ballot/receipt is the first place to start. But, it doesn't mean we are finished there.

TIA

I think tampering with electronic memory chips or writing bad code (the best machines don't allow any such code) leaves an indellible trail. Look at the punch card ballots in Florida. I have no doubt that they were altered after they were cast, but there is no way to prove that unless the perpetrators are caught in the act. Once it is done, it is done.

With a chip, if you alter it, you still leave a record of what was altered that someone could uncover if they investigated. With bad code, the code can be tested and caught by external observation, by simply voting known quantities and matching them to the results produced by your voting. It can also be caught by an examination of the code. Thus, it is harder to hide. Also, it is harder to do-- it requires a lot of people to be in on the distribution of the code to each individual machines. If the code were already built into the machines from the factory, again it would be too easy to catch, because districts could run extensive live testing (they run minor live testing anyway) and stumble across the incongruities.

A paper trail ballot gives them something to tamper with directly, and again leave no trace, so you have machines saying one thing, paper saying another, and no way to prove which was tampered with. People will instinctively trust the paper, feeling that the machines malfunctioned, but as was proven in Florida (and in a bunch of Texas counties in the last few decades) paper is easy to rig and impossible to catch when the local authorities are behind it.

The only way to stop cheating is to investigate so thoroughly and punish so harshly that people will be afraid to do it, no matter the system. But for some reason you and I can both guess at, no elected officials seem to want that type of scrutiny to be required.

What I see happening is that there will be tremendous anomolies this year, and then there will be a move to provide paper trails by 2008, and then in 2008 the paper trails will cause the anomoly, and a new theory will be developed by 2012, and we will keep enabling them to develop new ways of cheating by using untested systems every four years.

All of the problems could be solved by rigid and aggressive verification by independent authorities of whatever system is used, and strict and sever punishment of any violations. Then our only problem would be figuring out what "independent authorities" to trust.

Much of that can be done without leaving a trail. Especially, if one's intent is fraudulent.

Bad code (or hidden code) cannot necessarily be found by testing. The vendors treat the code as a trade secret and no outsider is allowed to look at it, much less review and analyze it.

I can write code that executes only under certain conditions, that shows one thing on the voter's display but does something entirely different internally to the tally(count), and I could even make it print out anything I wanted. It's really not hard.

Since testing is done in "test mode", actual voting has at least some coding differences (therefore execution differences) from testing.

Voter Verified Paper Ballots, along with very robust auditing procedures, provide the opportunity to verify that the vote tally is what was intended. Along with those, of course, would be very strong laws against voting fraud and severe punishments.

There's more, but this is basic.

The better machines require that testing be done in regular voting mode. You or I (I've done my share of programming) could write code to make the machine show one thing and record another, but that would show up in testing, on the machines we should be using, anyway.

The basic OS of these machines are installed at the factory, but the actual setting up of the ballots are done locally, and don't involve new code, they involve a data entry system that generates the ballots, and then is loaded down to each machine. There is no code or programming introduced here, so the code alterations would have to be done from the beginning, before the machines were purchased, and would have to have specific instructions built in from the beginning to reroute Democratic votes to Republican votes, and would have to find some way to ensure that these instructions would work over several years with several different styles of ballots and systems, since these same machines are used on local elections (which are often non partisan) on primary systems (where only one party is present), and on general elections. That's sophisticated code. The more sophisticated, the more chance of it being discovered. And discovery destroys the whole house of cards.

And altering a chip does automatically leave a trail on ROM style memory. And you are assuming that code will be allowed to be secret. I'm not advocating sticking with the current systems, I'm advocating setting tougher standards, requiring code to be public, requiring public testing, and requiring tougher scrutiny. The current system scares me, as everything Bev has discovered does. But I believe the best way to solve the problems is by working with what we have, eliminating as many of the secretive areas that allow cheating as we can, and going on from there. That means jettisoning Diebold, that means setting standards on these machines to make them more public.

The machines are the right idea. The current machines, most of them, are not. But the worst are paper ballots. Politicians have been cheating with paper for centuries. They know how to do that. That's what got Bush into the White House in the first place. And if the results depend on the paper ballots rather than the machines, then nothing will have changed.

and leave no trail...I know...I have seen it done with both Diebold and Sequoia.

With the right equipment you can detect changes on ROM and on hardrives. Use only machines that use that type of technology, and build machines that can scan them.

And I still don't believe that no trail was left. Maybe not a trail you had the equipment to detect...

it is an audit problem!

Let me tell you about Jeffery Dean.

Mr Dean worked for a large law firm in Seattle. He installed a brand new computerized accounting system for the firm and maintained it. There were two 30 year veterans working in the accounting department that didnt quite trust the computer sysetm. So they kept a manual set of books, as they had done for thelast 30 years. Because they did, they detected a theft in excess of $480,000. A crime the Superior court of Washington said required a "high degree of technical sophistication".

Diebold has holes you can drive a truck through. The system is insecure...admitted by many of the people in chaarge today. Vote tabulation is accounting. If you take away the primary audit device you open the system up to fraud. I have a friend who is a computer security expert. He has had a chance to look at the software. Since I trust my friend I will trust his judgement. He does not trust a paper ballot free system.

I WIIL NOT...under any circumstances relinquish my vote to the vaguaries of computerized voting and computerized verification.

An accounting system (like the one I work with) is a sophisticated program. A voting register is a very simple one. They can be made simple, and open to the general public.

You are comparing a NASA computer meant to plot trajectories to the moon with an adding machine. Pull out your pocket calculator, and program it to access the Internet. You can't, because the circuitry isn't sophisticated enough, because programming is at the basic level of "on-off" switches for number registers, and because their is not any way to link the circuitry to the Internet. THAT's the type of machine that should be used for voting.

Dump Diebold, you'll see that I've never defended them. But paper allowed Bush to steal Florida. It is right now about to cost us another seat in Congress in Texas. It is too easy to reproduce, too easy to cheat with, and impossible to make secure. Just because there are crooks out their building machines does not mean that all machines are unworkable.

Sometimes I suspect that Diebold is working with Rove and Baker to get paper ballots back in place, because they have such success with them. THere are even hints that Bush stole his first election against Ann Richards. With paper. The stuff doesn't work.

One of two paper receipts must be placed in a lock box after being viewed by the voter. The voter should be instructed to hold onto the other for at least a month.

This is essentially the same as a paper ballot. The lock box should be safeguarded and opened in case a recount is requested.

Of course, exit polls should be conducted as well.

Your basic premise is that cheating is always a possibility. True. But let's make it very difficult for them to do it. Fear of prosecution is one thing. But let's not give them a chance to start with.

I would prefer if all voting was done by mail with paper ballots. And that the vote counting should be manual, visually verified just like a recount. In fact, this would be equivalent to a count/recount in one shot. Kill two birds with one stone.

Computers have no place in this. The devious work of professional hackers would never be caught in the limited time allowed after the voting, if ever.

I know some of you like the idea that the voter keeps a copy, but you'll get shot down by the "vote selling" angle really fast, even though they apply a double standard where vote selling doesn't bother them if it happens to be Internet voting or electronic verification.

Yes, paper ballots must be audited. That IS the whole point.

So what if the paper says one thing and the machine another? It is the paper ballot that is verified- documented, tangible evidence.

Besides, voters should raise cain if a voting system says one thing on the screen and another on the paper ballot. Big, big red flag.

Almost all the laws and changes being worked on mandate that the paper ballot is the legal ballot of record.

And the voter verified paper ballot machines make running new ballots pretty hard to do and not get caught.

As always, you have to have laws and procedures in place and they have to be followed.

Can vote fraud be eradicated? No. Can it be mitigated? Yes. Paper ballots are hard to manipulate on a large scale. Electronic voting is immensely condusive to massive vote fraud.

Paper isn't perfect but it's a far, far better way to go.

It takes skill to alter a computer. It takes little to alter paper. You've seen how easily a kid with a scanner and color printer can make money. They can do the same thing with ballots.

Most cheating is done on a local level. Even in Florida, where ballots were intentionally overvoted, the cheating was done locally. It just attained a national significance.

Paper is what we need to eliminate. We are playing right into their hands.

And in case it seems otherwise, let me reiterate that I'm not disregarding Bev Harris's work or stating that BBV is good as it stands. There are one or two honest, good machines out there, and the rest scare me, and Bev has been incredible with what she has done. I just think we are being hijacked.

When BBVs first started, I posted a suggestion here on DU that we needed paper copies of ballots to be go along with the machines. I had not seen anyone else raise that suggestion before, and I got several responses that it was a great idea. I'm sure others were saying the same thing, I'm not claiming I started it or anything, I'm just saying that I saw the potential early on. But I've spoken with county supervisors on this (Democrats), I've watched voting patterns closely hear in Texas, I've read all the problems with machines around here, and I've compared all this info to what was done in Florida in 2000. My opinion has evolved from wanting paper ballots, to wanting to be rid of them altogether now. I truly believe that if you could give Dick Cheney and James Baker a wish list, that paper ballots in 2004 would be at the absolute very top of it.

People won't hold on to the receipts, and if they did, what's the point? You won't be able to do a recount from them, because some people will lose them, some people wouldn't turn them back in if they were requested to. You still couldn't match up votes, and if the ballots are somehow linked to the ones turned in, so that a person can verify that the one in the ballot box matches their own, then there is no secret ballot. I guess if everyone holds on to a ticket, and then turns them in later into a locked ballot box so that those tickets can be matched up to the original ballots and not to the voter, that would be something, but you still have a ballot box, you still have blind paper ballots, and you still have exactly the same problems, because people can just alter the second ballots however they altered the first.

We've had paper ballots for a long time. They are easy to cheat. We've had locked ballot boxes. They are easy to cheat, too. Ask Lyndon Johnson. Check out the story happening in south Texas now, with Henry Cuellar and Ciro Rodriquez.

Computers are the best method to prevent cheating. It takes the right machines, the right company, and an independent verification force. Travis County in Texas uses a brand with a large dial on the front. The ballot data is entered before the elections by the voting supervisors, without code. They are not attached at any point to a network or phone line. They are tested to make sure that what goes in is what the machine is registering. They are tested three times-- after the data is entered, before the votes, and after the vote-- to ensure accuracy. They run off battery backups so they won't fail in a power outage. They are basically large calculators with simple chips. They are harder to cheat with than paper ballots because the chips can't be altered, and they are cross-referenced by code to the voter registration rolls (not the voters themselves), so the numbers can match up. The machines are triggered to notify attendants if suspicious patterns develop, like a sudden rush of consecutive votes for one candidate when the polls close, indicating ballot stuffing. The weak link is the counting, of course, as always, but the votes are counted two ways, lessening the chance to cheat.

These machines are far from foolproof, but provide a lot of built in checks, are hard for the average elections supervisor to tamper with, and are not linked, so that any tampering would have to be done to each machine, which requires a lot of people to be involved.

THAT type of machine-- along with constant testing and constant vigilance-- works better and more securely than paper ballots. Cheating is still possible, but harder. Cheating on the local level is very hard, and that's where most cheating occurs, anyway. THAT's what we need to be looking for. The more complicated a system, the more you require extra paper, parallel records, and the cooperation of voters, the MORE chance there is of mistakes and cheating, not less. You're a mathematician, isn't that usually the case? More chances for error produce more error, and more error means more cheating can be blamed on error.

"You're a mathematician, isn't that usually the case? More chances for error produce more error, and more error means more cheating can be blamed on error."

Yes, I am a mathematician and software developer for many, many years. I am not a computer security geek. But my experience tells me that electronic voting is the easiest way to fix an election.

Voting is the one application in which machines are counter productive. They are just a boondoggle for Repuke manufacturers, election officials on the take, and malicious hackers.

Do it the old fashioned way: A simple ballot, hand-counted.
That would make me feel much more secure that my vote will be counted.

with paper ballots. Almost every damned local election has its share of cheating.

This all reminds me of a parallel. In the Middle Ages, no one could write, so when they wanted to keep records of property deals, they held a big public ceremony, and rocks were exchanged to symbolize the property transfer. A whole slew of young kids were brought forward to witness the exchange (since they would live longer, hopefully), and to be sure the event was fixed in their memories, someone would clobber the kid aside the head to make him cry.

When writing began to re-emerge, they began recording transactions to keep better records. But no one trusted the writings, so they recorded everything, and continued to exchange rocks and whack those poor kids.

We're doing the same thing. No way you believe that a computer box can't be made more secure than a locked ballot box. You can build in software and programming to detect cheating, you can design them to register votes immediately onto a chip that can't be altered without leaving a trace, you can even program them to keep records and crosschecks that would be nearly infallible, if you get companies who are honest to build them. There is never any way to make paper more secure. It will always be alterable, destructable, and fallible. It has always been used to cheat, and always will.

Electronics gives us possibilities. Paper makes sure that Florida can continue to happen over and over again.

And I want three (3) squinty-eyed humans counting the votes and checking each other.

I don't want my votes lost in Cyberspace. Forever.

Get over it. These machines HAVE NO PLACE in a Democracy.

Joby, you are barking up the wrong tree on this one.

TIA

Paper Ballot...not Vapor Ballot!

No one is seriously talking about putting elections on line. The best machines out there have no modem, and no way to go online.

Paper ballots are too easy to cheat with. Period. If you think otherwise, you are just wrong. They can be duplicated, they can be reproduced and altered, they can be stuffed at the box too easily, and they can flat out be lost or destroyed.

An open machine, with no hidden code, properly checked before and after each election, is more secure. Not Diebold, not half the other machines out there. But there are machines that work. That's why the secret is in investigation, observation, and regulation. Keep counties buying the right machine, have no hidden code. THese things are big calculators more than computers. THey register votes, they store them in unalterable format, they have a hundred internal checks to be sure votes are recorded and counted properly, and they have to be totally open to anyone who wants to look at them.

Paper ballot cheating has gone on too long. It's still going on right now, and we are going to lose another congressional seat to it this year, when Henry Cuellar, who stuffed a ballot box to win the primary over a Democratic incumbent, switches parties.

THAT's the issue. BBV is being done wrong now, but it doesn't have to be. Paper HAS TO GO.

... cheating is possible with any medium. But let's resist full-scale computerized cheating with no possibility of any kind of audit.

they gloss over many of the important issues, and the stories die down in days. Also, it's usually one network who takes on the "big story." The rest relegate the story to punditry where it is then clouded with disinformation. A one-time expose' on one network won't give BBV the attention it deserves. Sorry if I'm cynical but I just don't hold out much hope. This war must be fought with funding. That's why Bev is asking for donations and we should see that she gets them. It's the best cause I can think of for donating money--even more important than funding the presidential campaign.

It will never sell to Joe Sixpack. Too complex and over stated.

what is your true agenda, I wonder?

:eyes:

We either start getting real with the issues that concern voters or lose yet another election. Be rational and not all too rosy with the reality that faces us and we might just prevail.

We are serious. You aren't serious at all. If you were, you would care about what happens to your vote. Then again, if you vote Repuke, you have nothing to worry about, do you?

Since you are an 'A' list member I can't challenge you so I will let it drop here and you can continue your biased attack on me if you wish...

there are Congress members that see electronic voting as undermining basic democracy. How does something that is verified by many news sources and many credible leaders 'tin-foil hat' material?

Did you read ANY of the links? Before you disparage something, please have your facts ready. Thank you, and enjoy your brief stay!

:hi:

Truth is a very cautious skeptic. Don't worry, just hang around, and you'll prove yourself, one way or the other.

I THINK Truth believes me now, but I wouldn't swear to it. :-)

The only way to vote will be in person, by showing up at the White House. We can each hold up one finger, and they can damn well count them all!

Sorry, I feel angry tonight. This BBV thing REALLY scares me.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

Hey, I love computers. Have worked with them all my life.

But I love democracy more.

Its easy to count the votes. Look at Canada. We could get the whole thing done in a matter of hours.

We just need three counters per precinct. I don't trust anybody who sells or buys a machine to count my votes. No one. Especially when I know that these Repukes have stolen elections before. Look at Georgia 2002. Look at Florida 2000. Look at California 2004.

This BBV rip-off is so obvious. Can't you see it? Do you really think there is anyway to guarantee that your vote can be recounted without a paper ballot? And if we need a paper receipt, why not just vote on the paper itself. It's a shame that millions of words and dollars are spent debating this rip-off, this scam.

I say Count/Recount in one shot. Using paper. Not punched cards. Paper. Fill in the blanks. A standard form. We can do this once every two years, can't we.

I don't need a paperless ATM which bytes my vote, either locally or on the server.

The only server I want is when I go to a restaurant and he/she gives me the bill with a total to look at. I sign it and check the statement at the end of the month.

What do I check when I touch a screen created by known crooks?

During a JFK assassination debate. No problems, I was just trying to lighten the mood, it's not a sore spot.

By the way, people will still buy and sell your paper ballots and the machines that count them, not to mention the counters. And once you drop that paper into the box, you have no idea what all happens to it.

Diebold

Take some of the "tinfoil" back to your buddies and send them my regards. Maybe they, and you, will learn something.

TIA