Make your strongest case for why you will vote for Kerry.

I think we can all agree that the first item on that list is

1) He's not George W. Bush


But what are the strengths, issues, voting records that make him your guy.

I've been challenged on other boards that I'm not voting for Kerry, I'm only voting against Bush... and that I should be embarassed by that fact.

There was a time when that was accurate. But the more I see Kerry speak, and the more I learn about his actual voting record, the more I am happy with Kerry the man... not just Kerry the guy who's not Bush.

Bush's environment "record" looks pathetic compared to Kerry. Bush's policy is pretty much:

*Leave no tree standing
*Leave no fish swimming
*Leave no child without asthma

that. I would be embarrassed if I voted for Bush or not voted.

Frankly, I have very strong aversion to politicians of most stripes or colors. But I have always voted for the lesser of two evils. And in this case the distance between them is so dramatic as to make it appalling for those who don't vote for Kerry (or, heavens help us, vote for Bush).

I wish he was more fiery now, but Vietnam Veterans Against the War was a reasoned, vital voice that I respected, and Kerry showed guts then. I approve of his positions now; I think he would be a fine president. Certainly not getting much help from fellow Dems, except Ted Kennedy. Most Dems in office now would like to just go along to get along, like 2002, but the future of our country is at stake. Time to turn up the heat.

His record is liberal, pro-environment, pro-women and minority, and fiscally responsible -- he's a Democrat. In sum, he's not Bush!! There's no way to minimize the importance of that!

And Bush strikes me as being A LOT nuts.

:headbang:
rocknation

he's against the death penalty as much as is possible in the USA, he supports fair trade, he will make America safe from real threats, he will treat our veterans right because he is one, he would like to end the travesty of millions of Americans without health insurance,

and of course, the main reason, he has way cool hair.

That's a pretty good start, as far as I'm concerned.

and listen to what others have to say. I'm glad he'll lose the "you're either with us or against us" mantra.

to mend international rifts.

That is the reason most if not all of us support this man. Even if he commits more troops to Iraq. He recognizes that this is an international affair and we simply cannot go on this alone.

Senaor Kerry once asked "How can you ask the last man to die for a mistake?" I honestly believe he believes this. He is simply doing what all of us would do. Appealing to the American Idol watching fence-sitters. If he pulled the troops out of Iraq, I GUARANTEE the pop star loving American retard 90 % majority would think it's a good idea.

Listen, your friends and neighbors are stupid. They are not members of the DU. They don't scour worldwide websites in a quest for the truth. We are a breed apart. We are the patriots. And if John Kerry is the same man he was in 1971 (which I belive he is) then he is our man. Rally behind him. He may seem a centrist now - but he's doing what any of us would to wrest the mantle of power from the evil Fundie Empire.

You will be pleasantly surprised.

edit (spelling error: worldwire to worldwide)

patriot act and homeland gestapo. For those 3 reasons.

Not.

or you don't care whether Bush gets four more years.

Or you just like to complain because you can.

Or something else that I just don't understand but maybe you could explain to me.

I have derided kerry for those votes since he made them. I am nnot changing my stance now.

and I'm not asking you to change your stance. Maybe you could explain to me the reason for "deriding Kerry" for this long in posting. I suggested a few. Is there another?

...me included.


I didn't vote for him in my primary, even though it was after Dean had "ceased to actively campaign". I voted for Dean.

I'll crawl through the snow with two severed legs to vote for Kerry in November, but only because he's not GWB.

I'm just asking the reason for reposting the same past-tense complaint. I suggested some reasons. Maybe there's another one that I'm missing.

Sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate you used the words "get over".

Aside from that, I don't feel it's a "past-tense complaint" (I AM typing that as a direct quote).

Many of us have BIG issues with Kerry and his positions (and what we see as some really weak votes). Between Kerry and Bush, we'll certainly vote for Kerry, but we want it known that it's not REALLY a vote for Kerry, it's a vote against Bush.

Nothing we can do about them now.

Current positions are changeable with support for and from constituencies -- independent organizations such as Sierra Club, NOW, etc. wield influence by promoting agendas, growing constituencies that support them, and lobbying politicians. As I see it, that's effective.

What is not effective, unless I'm missing something, is complaining endlessly about things that cannot be changed in ways that change nothing -- at least, ways that change nothing for the better.

Your message of discontent registers loud and clear over these boards. So if you just want it known, it's known. Beyond that, what is the reason for continually restating it without effect? That's my question.

Either Kerry voted for the IWR for the reason he stated (that he trusted Bush to use the power wisely) or he voted for the IRW simply because because 67% of the population wanted to kick somebody's ass.....anybody's...

If he voted for the IWR because he trusted Bush, he's a moron. Bush as President has surrounded himself with a cabinet of PNAC folks. He OBVIOUSLY can't be "trusted" when military action in the Middle East is concerned.

If he voted for the IWR because of public opinion at the time, he's a typical politician...he votes how he has to to get reelected.

I have not sen any major change in Kerry since the IWR vote (the same applies to the Patriot Act).

Ergo, Kerry is either a moron or he votes simply to get reelected, both possibilities being at the peril of our country.

..you may understand why I'm not particulatly optimistic.

Your concerns are present-tense. His votes are not. So complaining about them will not change them.

If you want to affect policy, there are ways to do so, as I've suggested. But voting Bush out is #1, and I don't see how complaining about Kerry's past votes at this point helps in that effort.

...and that's my problem with him.

As I think you'll see, I wholeheartedly agree that ousting Bush is #1. I don't see where that interferes with an accurate appraisal of Kerry's recent voting habits.

And there are things we can do to effect progress. Continually bashing our nominee isn't among them, in my view.

There ARE a lot of people voting for Kerry just because he's not Bush.

They're NOT voting for him because they believe in him.

That's an issue for us, I think.

Excuse me for jumping in and appearing ignorant but...

Is it just me or do we elect people who will best represent the publics (our) feelings and needs?

If we choose him/her to represent us and then complain because he looks at the polls, where else can they get their information? Do they have access to other info gatherers that we are not privy too? Would they/Could they be more accurate than the polls from CNN or ABC or FOX?

It seems that if a politician votes against public opinion at the time then his time as a politician will be very short.

mq
w/p
daves rope swing

Bush or

Bush Lite

I never heard that before. But then I'm new here. Did you make it up yourself? Surely such wisdom will help Kerry go back and change the votes he made in the past, and thus strengthen our causes...

Not.

What I hear is more of the same. The blood being spilled in Iraq...is on his hands as surely as it is on Bush's. As it is on every other House and Senate member that voted yes Democrat or Republican.

One of our own here is being harrased under the guise of the Patriot Actg and Kerry remains silent on the issue they are being harrased over. So don't give me some crap that Kerry will change things, he has had plenty of chances and time to do so.

and change his vote. So endlessly complaining about what he did in the past is futile. My point is not "some crap that Kerry will change things," my point is that he cannot change his vote.

In this post, you're back in the present tense. I can see some rationale for posting your complaints about Kerry's current actions or inactions. Perhaps you can influence the future. I just don't understand the reason for repeated posts slamming Kerry now for what he cannot undo.

I would be pulling the lever for Kerry.

My original post in this thread had no complaint. Unless you can show me a complaint. You must have had a problem with those votes...or you would not have made a big deal out of my reasons for voting for him.

On a thread asking for positive reasons for voting Kerry, you wrote:

"Because he so gallantly voted for War
patriot act and homeland gestapo. For those 3 reasons.
Not."

I thought that was a complaint about his three votes. But if you say those are the reasons you'll be 'pulling the lever for Kerry,' I can only believe you.

but I expect nothing to change under Kerry.

Bush, Kerry...six is a half dozen of another.

and I'm glad that we will have someone that will look back at the actions taken (by him and others) and be able to realize that it was a bad idea. It takes someone to realize that there was a mistake and that it now needs to be taken care of. Unlike Bush, who can't think of anything that he has made a mistake about. What a Loser.

He blamed Bush for misusing his mandate (when he should have known damn well that Bush and his Cabinet had no goal except war in Iraq).

When did Kerry admit he screwed up?

He hasn't and won't.

I meant that he's willing to say that what he voted for was a mistake, that it's being handled wrong (in response to the flip flopper crap). Bush would just sit there and say that everything's fine and going to plan. I guess that's not really admitting fault huh. I know what I meant :)

Kerry touts his political experience but claims that a Bush surrounded by the scariest advisors this country has ever seen was worthy of his trust when he voted for the IWR. He's stated that he "trusted" GWB to make the right calls.

...could it be that 67% of the population was in favor of SOME kind of war at the time and Kerry wanted to keep his job? That's conjecture.

What shouldn't be conjecture is that Kerry had no reason to trust Bush.

In my estimation, Kerry's either a political opportunist (what politician isn't) or a moron. I've found I can vote for a political opportunist...

Wish I could swear, but it's against the rules. Showing some SELF-RESTRAINT here.

I replied....

Because he voted for War Patriot Act and Homeland Gestapo. What happened after that I merely responded to.

My concerns with Kerry are valid!

This was the question. "But what are the strengths, issues, voting records that make him your guy."

Is it possible to have one thread around here that somebody doesn't feel the need to piss in? Just one. You know, SELF-RESTRAINT.

On the issues
-- Pro choice
-- For a balanced budget
-- for environmental protection
-- for energy independence
-- the correct view on Iraq -- we cannot leave until Iraq is stable-- that is the difference between Iraq and Vietnam
-- the correct view on terrorism -- it's a world-wide problem requiring international cooperation -- not US vs. bin Laden
-- recognizes the need to improve security at home

Issues of Character
-- he volunteered for Vietnam. I respect anyone who did that.
-- he spoke against the war. That could not have been easy for a veteran -- I respect that too.
--At age 27 he testified before Congress and Senator Proxmire said "I hope you will join the Senate one day.". Where were you at age 27?
-- he takes time to understand the issues. His grasp of the complexities is what makes him so hard to understand.
-- he is a stronger candidate than he currently appears to be. To understand this, you either have to watch him carefully now and read the history of his prior campaigns. If you study carefully, you will see he is a political genius.
-- He appears genuinely concerned with common people. Far from being an oddity among the rich, it is an old American tradition, stretching back to JFK, FDR, Theodore Roosevelt, and George Washington.
-- he was the most tested of any of other Democratic candidates. He won far more difficult campaigns than any of the others.
-- Most of the people he served with in Vietnam will campaign with him this summer. Why do you think he deserves that kind of loyalty?

I will be filling in the oval for Kerry...but it is not a vote for him but against Bush. I expect no change from Kerry and if we do somehow get a change...I will be suprised. But I am certainly not holding my breath.

2) Don't really have a 2....

Kerry is not Bush--exactly!

..at least for me.

We've seen what Bush has to offer; secrecy, petulance, obstinance, an unfailing loyalty to the haves of this world, laziness, a failure to listen, and the blood of thousands on his hands.

When I have a zit on the end of my nose, I pop it. I don't just let it sit there and fester and ruin my day.

Why vote for Kerry? He's honest, hard-working, and at LEAST says he is concerned with the plight of average Americans. Why vote for Kerry? Because we deserve better than the worst president in my lifetime and I'm no glutton for punishment.

I've been in cars with men who refuse to ask for direction and it ain't pretty. It's not pretty now.

But it really is just too important to get Bush out of office. Hell, even Chomsky endorsed Kerry. So its very well known how important it is to get Bush out of office.

Kerry and the Democratic party really do little for me, so its hard to be gung ho about such things. But, I plan on voting Kerry, sadly.

same here.

can speak English, and is not stupid like small man bush.

bush who is worse than kerry.

It can't get any stronger than that! Kerry is the only hope we've got to oust the chimp, so he's got my total support come hell or high water.

1. Although the Democrats are also in the pocket of big business, they are more susceptible to popular pressure than the Republicans.

2. The fact that Kerry won't differ much in practice for Bush will prove a great tool for building a progressive third party.

always will. When I was 10 I saw him on TV, a veteran standing up to the government against VietNam. I have never been afraid to stand up for what I believe in since then.

Coming from a family of "followers"; chickens who never stood up against anything, right or wrong, I came to look up to JK as a role model for standing up for something you believe in. I still do today.

What he did back then gave me the strength when, after my son was diagnosed with autism, to fight for the school services he was entitled to and not back down. Throughout my life I have stood up, many times when it was not popular to do so, because I learned from JK that it was the right thing to do.

1. Environment
2. Foreign policy
3. Economic plan
4. Flip-flopping (seriously. The ability to change your mind about a previous decision shows character and depth of thought and willingness to listen.)
5. Dammit, he looks presidential!
6. He's a senator from my home state!
7. He's a fighter. (not just for himself, but for noble causes)
8. Do I really need to keep listing reasons? He's got my vote. And if Wes is his running mate, I'll vote twice!
Peace

Unfortunately, that's about all I can come up with.

1). He's not George W. Bush
2). He's a real life war hero.
3). He's not a puppet of extreme views and those who harbor them.
4). He speaks his mind when he knows that he's in the right.
5). He's not a Texas village idiot.

what's right, and a smart enough pragmatist to make a good bit of what's right become reality. The smart American's vote.

Chimp: jus trying to help Dad's golfing buddies. Dad's golfing buddies have enough juice to make him succeed in helping dad's golfing buddies. When Dad's golfing buddies are helped, other 99.9 percent of America gets screwed or, if they are soldiers, killed.
The I'm-a-real-patriot-between-American-idol-episodes person's vote.

Ralph Nader: Pretends to want what's right, in order to prey on naive idealists in order to gain money and power. Willing to endanger country to get in newspaper. The utter idiot's vote.

Other than that I don't have a clue what his position is on anything.

... social services, Social Security, Medicare, health care, labor, civil rights, women's rights, gay rights, homeland security, and veteran's benefits. I must have missed a few, but that's enough, isn't it?

Yes, some of the other candidates were stronger on certain issues, but Kerry's record on all of these issues is pretty solid. Yes, the IWR and the "Patriot" Act were the main reasons that Kerry wasn't my first choice, but everyone makes mistakes. To call him "Bush lite" because of those two votes is asinine, in view of the list of other issues above.

I sincerely believe that Kerry is a good man and a good Democrat, and he will be a very good president.

erase all the things that I said and replace it with

THE SUPREME COURT

....and that's enough for me!

Cheers,
Kim

And he probably has a functioning brain -- although there's not much evidence of it in his campaign strategy so far, imho.

Actually, there's no way around it. I'm ONLY voting for him because he's not bush*. I just hope and pray that there's enough people in this country willing to do the same, because he damn sure ain't winning many hearts and minds on his own merits (whatever they are) that I can see.

sw

he's not at the beck and call of radical tax destroyers who see no need to pay a cent of thier fund money to the common good.

He will support our nation's veterans, poor, small business owners, minorities, and the environment.

He will be the olive branch we need to bring the rest of the world back to a view of America as a sane, great country where they can build investments, diplomacy, and joint battles on terrorism.

and I believe that he will be more likely to fight back if there's voter fraud this time. Or for any other reason, if it is necessary. I so far like his responses to the Bush attacks, he is being firm but also conserving energy, not jumping on every fight. I basically think that any candidate facing Bush would be under severe scrutiny, and having to deal with a hostile press.
Considering the pressure he is under to say and do just the right thing, he is primarily staying ahead of his opponent. The situation with throwing the medals back is one spot where I feel he should've just said, "look, I have a great deal of personal integrity, both in serving my country during Nam, and also in throwing the medals back- which I saw, at the time, as a way of making reparations. " Because both acts show a different side of that integrity.
Other reasons for voting for- and supporting- John Kerry for president include hard to define things such as feeling comfortable/secure when I visualize him as president. Part of that is liking his craggy face that reminds me so much of Lincoln. Also, he comes across as experienced, intelligent, presidential- as well as exuding a subtle charisma and warmth.

"... and that I should be embarassed by that fact."

No, you shouldn't, even if that really is the only reason you have for voting for Kerry. The hyper-hypocritical Bush* apologists are trying very hard to equate Bush* hating with the Clinton hating that they themselves found so appealing. But really, there's not the slightest similarity.

Remember, an entire cottage industry arose around making up shit to hate Clinton for and spoon-feeding it to people who: A) are apparently in desperate need of reasons to hate someone; B) are more comfortable having someone else doing their thinking; and C) laughably think that parroting moronic propaganda and lies (which everyone has already heard a dozen times from the original propagandists and liars) makes them look intelligent, analytical, and well informed. This, despite the fact that Clinton was actually governing as a centrist, not a flaming liberal. These fine folks were literally ejaculating in their pants when, after six years of determined and concerted effort, they finally found something real to hate him for, and that was lying about a blow-job.

With Mr. Bush*, on the other hand, we have an unelected liar who has spectacularly and very visibly fucked up everything he's touched, right from the get-go (unless, of course, you're in that top 1% of the wealthy that is his only apparent concern), while brazenly lying about what he was doing or about why he was doing it, and we'll be paying the price for decades.

Hating Bush* is rational and moral.

another four years of chimpy and his facist neocon buddies.

We'll lose America to totalitarianism if Bush wins another term, but I fear we may have already lost it.

with 20 Xanaxes and a half-pint of Wild Turkey in his system would make a better Prez than Bush.

Not a religious nutjob, and doesn't owe them anything.

and proud of it. that is good enough for me, even though i would have voted for just about anything or anyone to get rid of little lord fauntleroy.

He's a man, who despite his privileged upbringing, has chosen to dedicated his life to public service. He already has a very accomplished career and a gazillion dollars. He doesn't need to be president. There is something very self-serving about Bush's public life, and I don't see that in Kerry. Kerry wants to be president so he can continue to serve his country and his record reflects that he has served with wisdom -- loving the country enough to stand up and criticize the government when its policies were wrong. He's educated and is intellectually curious (not lazy like Bush). I find him refreshing in his candor, and his willingness to hit back at BushCo.

1. He's intelligent, articulate, and a leader
2. He's not afraid to put his ass on the line for something he believes in.
3. He's pro-choice, pro-education, and pro-American workers
4. He understands that America is a member of the global community
5. He understands and respects the Constitution
6. He's presidential
7. He knows war first hand, so he should be less likely to go off half-cocked and put our men and women in danger.
8. He doesn't say "Murkens"
9. He doesn't say "Nucular"
10. He AIN'T Bush*

I will be the first to admit, I was skeptical, but he won my vote when I went to see him at the rally in Atlanta before Super Tuesday. Standing there listening to him talk, I thought, "Damn, this guy can win!"

I'm voting for Kerry because he is an american patriot. Volunteered for Viet-namn, three purple hearts, bronze star, silver star. and the fact that he has only begun to fight. What has George W.
bush done except lie to me.

Since everyone covered the rest, here's my married woman over 40 perspective:

His SECOND wife is not a trophy wife, she's FIVE years older than he is. (and he's no spring chicken)

His FIRST wife is rooting for him to win.