The Women of Abu Ghraib

Do you remember the LIES that the reason Fallujah erupted was because there were "foreign" insurgents fighting and/or (because they always offer us a choice of lies from which to pick) that Sadr's men were upset that we had shut down a newspaper?

Lies. Lies. Rotten-Apple LIES!

Rumors of these atrocities have been on the internet for a while but because they weren't on the corporate-owned media, we didn't give them enough attention.

The horrifying photos which emerged this week explain things much better than the corporate media or the apologists have ever been able to.

We heard about the men only because the "Occupation Armies" couldn't squelch the rumors and pictures began circulating on hard-core pornography sites. Soldiers had also started coming forward, horrified at what they KNEW was taking place and it was only then that the military 'realized' they had a problem & launched an 'investigation'. The first investigation, led by the Army’s chief law-enforcement officer, Provost Marshal Donald Ryder, a Major General, was a whitewash report that brought a few small problems to light. The second investigation, conducted by Major General Antonio M. Taguba which was not meant for public consumption, identifies a systemic problem. What we need now is a THIRD investigation by a respectable organization such as Amnesty International (which is conveniently barred from Abu Ghraib).

There is no mention of the women at Abu Ghraib and yet it was their plight that started the uprising. They were being released from that prison and sent out in the streets in stages of undress that we Americans would consider half-naked.

Common sense alone dictates that the women underwent the same type of horrors the men did. We don't need a third investigation to know that that happened. We need a third investigation to bring these crimes to light, expose & punish those involved, and show the world that those sociopaths responsible do NOT represent the American people.

I am outraged and ashamed.

- Brigadier General Janis Karpinski
- Staff Sergeant Ivan L. Frederick II
- Sergeant Javal Davis
- Specialist Charles A. Graner
- Specialist Megan Ambuhl
- Specialist Sabrina Harman
- Private Jeremy Sivits
- Private Lynndie England

This story mustn't end with this "garden" assortment of sacrificial lambs because the Army isn't tossing out a Brigadier General over the "alleged" crimes of 7 enlisted people, only two of whom are of ranks where you are entrusted with low-level responsibilities.

BG Krapinski and these 7 sorry fools are being tossed out as a diversion to prevent us from uncovering a much larger scandal involving contract torturers from CACI International Inc, ticker symbol CAI and Titan Corp, ticker symbol TTN as well as the CIA, the DIA and every rotten organization implicated in this world-class horror.

If you have links and stories about the others involved, please post them in this thread. Please post relevant snippets or synopses of the information and not just the link.

Please. For the men over there whose lives have been recklessly endangered by the sociopaths who are willing to "do whatever it takes". For the hostages. For our mothers. For our sisters. For our daughters. For our humanity.

====================================================================

03 05 2004 (Note the date)

The newspaper reminds that militants attacked the (Abu Ghraib) prison several days ago. 22 prison guards and inmates were killed and 51 injured. The reason for this was probably a leaflet that can be seen on the outside of the prison's wall...similar leaflets are now appearing in many mosques in Baghdad...cry for help from the hostages of that Iraqi prison...

«We are held in the northern sector. Attack this prison and put an end to our disgrace, and if you cannot do this for the love of the Most High, tell someone who can stick up for us or give us some 'Bahe Maneh al-Hamel'. May Allah and Iraqi patriots put an end to our tortures». 'Bahe Maneh al-Hamel' is the Arab for 'contraceptive pills'.

The women detained in Abu Ghraib are feeling ashamed when they evasively tell about the desperate situation that they are in (which any Eastern woman would experience in the conditions of constant violence committed by prison guards, new Iraqi policemen and the Americans). Any Muslim who read this message will feel his blood curdle from indignation.

<snip>

One of the Iraqis working on a contract with the US administration told La Stampa about one of such terrible episodes. He says that almost 2,500 inmates are held in that prison. The prison is divided into 4 sections. 600 inmates are women. One of them is a bank teller from Baghdad. She was put in jail in January for financial fraud. She could only be released on bail. The family collected $15,000 and this person was sent to discuss the details of release. When he saw her in a room, she had a big stomach. She was sobbing and telling that she was raped by Iraqi prison guards and American soldiers each night, and she does not want to get out of the prison. She told not to say anything to her relatives, because if she returns to Baghdad she will die from shame. :mad:

The same person said that two women already hung themselves in their cells. Another woman gave a birth in confinement. The newborn baby was a mulatto. Allegedly, the US military authorities conducted an internal investigation, but no guilty have been found.

Amnesty International is calling on the complex investigation of all cases of violence against the inmates in Iraq.

<snip>

http://www.kavkaz.org.uk/eng/article.php?id=2730
====


((with thanks to Chookie))

<snip>

The real facts are that there is report after report of US abuses; on the internet, in the back pages of our newspapers, in personal accounts that with a little luck will now make their way to mainstream press. This is not an isolated few - this is business as usual for the US military and their collaborating band of thugs in Iraq. Is it any wonder that bodies of US soldiers who fall into Iraqi hands are mutilated and displayed?

The pictures of US soldiers dishonoring Iraqi detainees came as no surprise to JUS (Jihad Unspun). We have been reporting alleged abuses since shortly after the fall of Baghdad. We received several reports over the past months of US soldiers raping Iraqi woman, only to find these photos posted to US porn sites. While these photos and reports were put down to "loose" Iraqi women (which shows a fundamental understanding of Iraq's religion and culture) we discovered later that those who were detained, some at Abu Ghraib prison, who refused to provide US officials with intelligence where given a prod to garner "cooperation" by rounding up the female relatives, forcing then into sexual acts that were filmed and then shown to their husbands, fathers and brothers and to the general public through porn sites. Now the CBS 60 Minutes II report legitimizes the incidents we have been reporting all along.

The Arab world is outraged. The Muslim Ummah is outraged. Iraqis are outraged and so are people of conscience everywhere. I pity the next soldiers that fall into Resistance hands. And contrary to its belief - America can be defeated and most likely will be defeated and dangled at the end of its own pathetic rope for all the world to see.

http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=2811&list=/home.php&

What have we done?:scared:

we let it happen again......

I am totally sickened by this. The UK Guardian called the pictures "the photos that lost the war," and if it wasn't already lost, I believe it.

Could this be what the newspaper was reporting before it was shut down?

Someone on the Yahoo message boards posted a link to a site that included photos of American soldiers raping and sexually assaulting Iraqi women. I couldn't keep the link, I don't want to see the photos again -- they are burned in my brain and have been turning my stomach ever since.

I have never been so ashamed in my life. And this fish is rotten from the head down. Prosecuting a bunch of grunts is not going to pacify the entire world. We deserve their scorn! The only way to redeem ourselves is to get rid of this corrupt and evil government and reach out to the people of the world in peace and generosity. We have many wounds to heal.

I grieve for Iraq, and for us all. So much has been lost. :cry:

http://www.wgoeshome.com

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I don't know personally, but it has been discussed on DU. The first series of photos is real. The section marked "Albasrah Received an e-mail with those pictures bellow(sic)" bears resemblence to an S&M film based on Gulf War I and may be from that film.

Don't spread those photos unless confirmed. All it takes is for someone to claim that all the photos are fake to start widespread disbelief that Americans are capable of such things at all.

The burden of proof is on the US government now.

I agree that there are some fake, porn-industry staged photos floating around but let that be the government's problem.

Porn movies don't usually result in pregnancy. .. or leaflets .. or mortar attacks on prisons ..

I like your 'tude ~ burden of proof .. it's the gov's problem now ..

.. no more EXCUSES provided!

Won't people think we're *fringe* or outright NUTS?
Can a NUT stop insanity? The insanity certainly will not stop itself.
The alternative (ignoring the atrocities) would certainly lead one to insanity.
As long as the certain outcome is NUTS/insanity, I'm okay with maybe just being NUTS.

Remember when American soldiers found some Iraqi's looting, so they stripped them down naked and wrote "thief" in Arabic on their chests and made them run around naked?

Probably from at least a year ago.

They are not US, the uniforms are not the same, and one of the rapist is wearing low cuts.

No matter who they are or what country they come from, they need to be put in the deepest, darkest cells for the rest of their lives.

Right after the tabloid where it says "Albasrah Received an e-mail with those pictures bellow"

Picture #1 US BDUs

# 2 Looks like they're Air Force (the AF wears the same BDUs as the others but doesn't tuck in their trouser legs and their boots are cut shorter)

#3 Same as above. I seem to recall that these are from Yugoslavia

#4 Same as above

#5 Same as above Looks like US BDUs (our greens are a little lighter than the European's) but also from Yugoslavia era. That girl is not Arab. Looks more Slav

#6 US BDUs. Same poor girl as in picutre 1

#7 Same guys and girl as in 2, 3, 4

#8 US BDUs but what's with the boots on but no trousers? All of them? Masks on the faces? Guy in the left, his jacket seems unusually long.

#9 Same guys as in 7


And for those who say that these look like porno stills- well, congratulations. That's the level to which we've descended. The burden of proof is on the government to prove these are fakes.

I am so EFFING tired of a bunch of men coming and saying that "they look photo-shopped", "look fake". Maybe next time we can get Spielberg on the scene to help these guys make it look as rosy as rape looks on TV.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE GOVERNMENT

We have totally lost our moral compass if we can look at these and bend over backwards to say that they are "Fakes". We've been at this for years. There aren't enough copies of Photo-shop in the world to produce so many brilliant fakes. Not enough porn studios in the world to get these up and running on the internet without anyone recognizing them from a movie or a "photo shoot".

Good God, when will people stop apologizing for evil? Pretend for one minute that that's your mother, your wife, your girlfriend, your daughter and then ask yourself if it looks fake.

====

Sorry for the rant Alfredo, hope that answered your question. I am sure that others will pipe in.

Peace

You know I'm on your side of this. Those rape photos were not US military and most likely not related to Iraq at all.

Trust me the real ones are bad enough.

if we feel they are authentic before we start raising hell. If it is our soldiers committing the acts, then we should start with the perps, then start chewing our way up to the top.

Any atrocities committed by our people shames our nation, and endangers our soldiers and our citizens.

I firmly believe that attitude flows down hill in any organization. Torture in any form is a reflection on the leaders of this nation, for all below him takes their cues from him. He didn't have to order or specifically approve of such actions. All he had to do was set the tone.

are paying for this.

I still haven't done my taxes yet. I just can't. It makes me sick to think about my money's helping pay for all these crimes.

Could this be what the newspaper was reporting before it was shut down?

It makes you wonder doesn't it? Probably. This and other atrocities.

Remember how we chased out all the journalists and shot at the Al-Jazeerah journalists who refused to leave because they were determined to report the Occupation's crimes in Fallujah?

This thing has been a snow-balling cover-up from the beginning. The boys in charge are panicking & losing their head. They're all going down.

I'd call it Fallujah-gate except that that seems so trite for a horror of this magnitude.

The Rape of Fallujah...

we cannot let these war-crimes fade away under bush* barage of

'oh, war is ugly and this is part of the war'
'we had to do it to get info'
'they deserve it'
'it's only a few rotten apples'
'what do you expect? it's a war !'
'we can't investigate now, there's a war going on'

I knew that the women were treated horribly too...and that more would be coming out in the public eye...but I also remember when the entire Mai Lai massacre was sifted down to one lower-level guy who served a few months in military jail and was let go and the whole slaughter disappeared.....bush* is hoping for the same...

as was noted so poignantly by Seymore Hersch..."This is a failure of leadership at the highest levels"

and there is no doubt, based on THREE completed investigations (Hersch says THREE investigations are already done by HIGH level generals), that the entire prison system was turned into a nasty interrogation operations to get those WMD for bush*...bush* pressured this horror and is personally responsible...bush* is destroying OUR military and demolishing America for his own greedy war-profiteers/campaign donors...the buck stops on the commander-in-chief's desk and WE THE PEOPLE must make certain that bush* does not evade responsibility for these war crimes and leave a few lower level people holding the bag (not that bush* hasn't done that before)....

I have no idea what to do. This is insane.

DEMAND ACTION FROM CONGRESS

Yes we need to have several things happen.

1.- The troops and general directely responsible MUST be tried in a very open Court Martial... with cameras present... yes Arab Network Cameras, this will ONLY BLUNT the consequences

2.- The Army claims that Titan and other Mercenary personnel is not subject to the UCMJ. (Yet they have inserted themselves in the chain of command) Fine, as the occupying power we must TURN THEM OVER to Iraqi Law enforcement, as we are to ENFORCE Iraqi National Law... as part of our obligations as an Occupying power. Demand such from Congress... remind them of those obligations. Too bad that the penalty for rape in the arab world is the death penalty (and on principle I do not like the death penalty btw)

3.- Demand that congress draft a bill RETURNING all military functions that have been privatized to the Miltiary. Yep, supply in private hands is not working, and neither is Intelligence.

4.- Demand that hearings are run in Congress (don't expect this to hapepn for the time being but demand it nonetheless) askign the question... what did Chief of Staff Myers knew and when he kenw it... it goes for the rest of the JCS. Oh and given that both WOlfowitz and Rumsfeld inspected that prison, same question, what did they know and when did they know it?

5.- Bear witness, write to the papers, and write often, and DEMAND the news media cover this to the full extent, regardless where this leads.

Remmeber, at this point we still can ask these questions, but if we do not, when they come for us, nobody will rise their voice in protest.

Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are both there to document everything they can find out. I believe both these groups try to be honest and fair and report abuses from all sides of a conflict.

Can we DEMAND the Red Cross be allowed in?
Can we DEMAND Amnesty Int'l be allowed in?

WHO is going to put a stop to this madness?

HOW do we mobilize 67% of Americans to DEMAND an end to this atrocity in the name of ... WHAT? DEMOCRACY??

My heart was already torn out when I saw the rape photos (which so many here quickly called suspect). They're on porn sites, so they can't be "Real"!! My heart is hanging, raw from my chest.

This is being done in OUR NAME. Our military operations are putting MORE AMERICAN lives at risk every hour. How can whoosh* stand on *national security* when he has totally blown ours?

I will be watching the ticker tapes tomorrow!! Prediction: sells!!

I'm waiting for the earthquakes to begin. My knees are already shaking, so I know they're coming.

It was inevitable, yet I really didn't want to hear about it, because it's too overwhelming.

All I could do for months was yell about getting the hell out of there.

Thanks for posting all of this........ I'm sharing with others. Maybe the whole story will finally convince some that it's time. It's TIME.

The shame is very difficult for those of us with a conscience to deal with.

Kanary

were going to have atrocities the minute we went in. It's going to get worse because we have tired and angry troops over there. Many have probably figured out that they were sent there on false pretenses at this point and more will figure it out the longer we are there.

First thing I thought of, Tinoire, when we went into Iraq was the Women. Women are always the first to be abused. But folks don't get upset because they "expect it," having read in the history books about "Raping and Pillaging" it all kinds of sits in their minds as ho hum. And, as you have in your post, many make the excuse that the women were "loose" or they were "that kind of woman." It's dreadful. It will all have to come out. Maybe now that there's attention to it more soldiers will reveal what they know.

Why were the womens photos placed on Porn Sites but the mens weren't. Or were the mens also there before they became public?

said in the article about it on their website that they had been holding the story for two weeks, but they had to run it because others were going to run with it. I thought it could have been Sy Hersh who was going to go with it, since his New Yorker article had to be already written for it to come out the next day after CBS did the story.

If these photos were on the Porn Sites at the same time as the Mens then that means they came from some of the same sources. Which also means that that's probably the next shoe to drop. Unless they figure the public can't handle the women's rapes and so they've been told to shut it up. I don't think Hersh will shut up about it, though. He seemed very adament that there is more about that prison than the "handful" of people who committed the atrocities. It was more widespread.

Good post, btw. It was needed here. I tried to bring it up in my post earlier about "Were the pictures real." I just linked folks on that post over to this article to read your links and snips.

they were attacking the prison. Now we know. WE know. Nobody else does.

This is so pathetic.

Again, the so-called press in this country is our worst enemy.

They are the enemies of truth, traitors to their own cause.

Thanks for posting this. This is really important.

I think we need to take this info, and use it for a letter-writing campaign to the media.

I'd like to connect to some of that woman-power from that march. If *half* those men and women from that march would write letters, and demand that the TRUTH of this be told, I think (I hope) we could get some results.

Kanary

The naming of Maj. Gen. George Fay, of the Army Intelligence and Security Command, to review the methods and procedures used in questioning Iraqi prisoners represents a widening of the probe into conditions at Abu Ghraib, a prison 25 miles outside of Baghdad that was notorious for torture and executions under the government of former president Saddam Hussein.

A spokesman for the CIA said Saturday that its inspector general is working with the Pentagon to determine if the CIA was involved in the abuses, which have drawn international attention.

"We are opposed to abusing prisoners in Iraq, and we have found no direct evidence connecting CIA personnel with incidents" of abuse, the spokesman said.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/8572404.htm


====

Maj.-Gen. Taguba said soldiers were directed to "set the conditions" for military intelligence interrogations. Army intelligence officers, CIA agents and private contractors "actively requested that MP guards set physical and mental conditions for favourable interrogation of witnesses," he reported, according to The New Yorker.

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=b2a25288-04a2-4fd9-bebd-6cbf325a9374

====

<snip>

The suggestion by Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski that the reservists acted at the behest of military intelligence officers appears largely supported in a still-classified Army report on prison conditions in Iraq that documented many of the worst abuses at the Abu Ghraib prison, west of Baghdad, including the sexual humiliation of prisoners.

The New Yorker magazine said in its new edition that the report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba found that reservist military police at the prison were urged by Army military officers and CIA agents to “set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses.”

<snip>

In a phone interview from her home in South Carolina in which she offered her first public comments about the growing international furor over the abuse of the Iraq detainees, Karpinski said the special high-security cellblock at Abu Ghraib had been under the direct control of Army intelligence officers, not the reservists under her command.


She said that while the reservists involved in the abuses were “bad people” who deserved punishment, she suspected that they were acting with the encouragement, if not at the direction, of military intelligence units that ran the special cellblock used for interrogation. She said that CIA employees often joined in the interrogations at the prison, although she said she did not know if they had unrestricted access to the cellblock.

<snip>

She estimated that the floor space of the two-story cellblock was only about 60 feet by 20 feet, and that military intelligence officers were in and out of the cellblock “24 hours a day,” often to escort prisoners to and from an interrogation center away from the prison cells.


“They were in there at 2 in the morning, they were there at 4 in the afternoon,” said Karpinski, who arrived in Iraq last June and was the only woman to hold a command in the war zone. “This was no 9-to-5 job.”


She said thatCIA employees often participated in the interrogations at Abu Ghraib, one of Iraq’s most notorious prisons during the rule of Saddam Hussein.

<snip>

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?section=WORLD&oid=50186


====
===

The following is an excerpt from FOX News Sunday, May 2, 2004.


CHRIS WALLACE, HOST, FOX NEWS SUNDAY: Well, one year and one day after President Bush declared the end of major combat in Iraq, we are joined now by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers.

<snip>

WALLACE: All right. Let's talk about something a lot less happy, and those are those terrible pictures that we all saw this week of U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners. We have some of the pictures on the screen.

The U.S. military brought charges in March against six soldiers, but there are press accounts today of an internal Army report that alleges that it went a lot higher than just six Army Reservists, that military intelligence officers and CIA agents urged the troops of the prison, quote, "set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses."

General, that Army report was completed back in February. Is it true?

MYERS: It's working its way to me. I have not seen it yet. Setting physical and mental conditions for interrogation, by itself, obviously that's something you do. But one thing we don't do is we don't torture.

It's interesting that the folks that turned the people in that we saw, the perpetrators of those acts that we see in the pictures, were soldiers, actually.

<snip>

WALLACE: Well, I want to ask you about that last point. If you find that anyone higher up in the chain of command in the Army reservists who are in control of that prison, or any of these military intelligence officers or CIA agents were involved in encouraging specifically these kinds of abuses, will they also face criminal charges?

MYERS: This is unacceptable behavior, and we don't — I mean, the American people get it. We get it. You look at the pictures, you know this is not something that anybody would condone, no matter what your interrogation objectives were.

And clearly, we have very high standards in the Department of Defense, perhaps the highest of any organization in the world, and we police ourselves very well, I think. This is unacceptable behavior.

<snip>

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118766,00.html

In a letter earlier this year, Frederick wrote, “I questioned some of the things that I saw.” He described “such things as leaving inmates in their cell with no clothes or in female underpants, handcuffing them to the door of their cell.” He added, “The answer I got was, ‘This is how military intelligence wants it done.”’Prisoners were beaten and threatened with rape, electrocution and dog attacks, witnesses told Army investigators, according to the report obtained by The New Yorker. Much of the abuse was sexual, with prisoners often kept naked and forced to perform simulated and real sex acts, witnesses testified. Hersh notes that such degradations, while deeply offensive in any culture, are particularly humiliating to Arabs because Islamic law and culture so strongly condemn nudity and homosexuality.


<snip>

General Karpinski said in the interview that thespecial cellblock, known as 1A, was one of about two dozen cellblocks in the large prison complex and was essentially off limits to soldiers who were not part of the interrogations, including virtually all of the military police under her command at Abu Ghraib.

<snip>


General Karpinski noted that one of the photographs of abused prisoners also showed the legs of 16 American soldiers — the photograph was cropped so that their upper bodies could not be seen — "and that tells you that clearly other people were participating, because I didn't have 16 people assigned to that cellblock."

<snip>

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?section=WORLD&oid=50186

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/international/middleeast/02ABUS.html?pagewanted=2

in a telephone interview from her home in South Carolina, the general said military commanders in Iraq were trying to shift the blame exclusively to her and the reservists.

"We're disposable," she said of the military's attitude toward reservists. "Why would they want the active-duty people to take the blame? They want to put this on the M.P.'s and hope that this thing goes away. Well, it's not going to go away."

<snip>

She said repeatedly in the interview that she was not defending the actions of the reservists who took part in the brutality, who were part of her command. She said that when she was first presented with the photographs of the abuse in January, they "sickened me."

"I put my head down because I really thought I was going to throw up," she said. "It was awful. My immediate reaction was: These are bad people, because their faces revealed how much pleasure they felt at this."

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/international/middleeast/02ABUS.html

and let's hope she doesn't get shut up. great work, tinoire...this just makes my blood boil :grr: sadly...there are some who will not be phased by this at all.

The sacrificial lambs:

- Brigadier General Janis Kaprinski
- Staff Sergeant Ivan L. Frederick II
- Sergeant Javal Davis
- Specialist Charles A. Graner
- Specialist Megan Ambuhl
- Specialist Sabrina Harman
- Private Jeremy Sivits
- Private Lynndie England

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

Where are the officers and Senior NCOs who were supervising when this took place:

Breaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick, and using military working dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees with threats of attack, and in one instance actually biting a detainee.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact

And these people? Where are they? There are more names. I ran across a few and neglected to book-mark them. Does anyone have any more?

SFC Snider grabbed my prisoner and threw him into a pile.

The military-intelligence officers have “encouraged and told us, ‘Great job,’ <<NAMES PLEASE>>

“CID has been present when the military working dogs were used to intimidate prisoners at MI’s request.” <<NAMES PLEASE>>

At one point, Frederick told his family, he pulled aside his superior officer, Lieutenant Colonel Jerry Phillabaum, the commander of the 320th M.P. Battalion, and asked about the mistreatment of prisoners. “His reply was ‘Don’t worry about it.’”

“They stressed him out so bad that the man passed away. They put his body in a body bag and packed him in ice for approximately twenty-four hours in the shower. . . . The next day the medics came and put his body on a stretcher, placed a fake IV in his arm and took him away.” <<NAMES PLEASE>>

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact


I told the battalion commander that I didn't like the way it was going and his reply was 'Don't worry about it. I give you permission to do it'. Where is Lieutenant Colonel Jerry Phillabaum, the commander of the 320th M.P. Battalion?

From the report:
personnel assigned to the 372nd MP Company, 800th MP Brigade were directed to change facility procedures to ‘set the conditions’ for MI interrogations.” Army intelligence officers, C.I.A. agents, and private contractors “actively requested that MP guards set physical and mental conditions for favorable interrogation of witnesses.” <<NAMES PLEASE>>

“I witnessed prisoners in the MI hold section . . . being made to do various things that I would question morally. . . . We were told that they had different rules.” <<NAMES PLEASE>>


Colonel Thomas Pappas, the commander of one of the M.I. brigades
Lieutenant Colonel Steven Jordan, the former director of the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center,
civilian contractor, Steven Stephanowicz, of CACI International,
a second CACI employee, John Israel.

===========================

I am going to have to say BRAVO to Frederick's JAG officer & civilian attorney for summing it up beautifully.

Captain Robert Shuck, Frederick’s military attorney, closed his defense at the Article 32 hearing last month by saying that the Army was “attempting to have these six soldiers atone for its sins.” Similarly, Gary Myers, Frederick’s civilian attorney, told me that he would argue at the court-martial that culpability in the case extended far beyond his client. “I’m going to drag every involved intelligence officer and civilian contractor I can find into court,” he said. “Do you really believe the Army relieved a general officer because of six soldiers? Not a chance.”

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact



“Do you really think a group of kids from rural Virginia decided to do this on their own? Decided that the best way to embarrass Arabs and make them talk was to have them walk around nude?”

(Frankly she sounds to me like she was given a job in Iraq she really didn't care about. I think she was negligent. I think it's the tone of this article about her that turned me off, but I may be too harsh on her):shrug:

Iraq Her job: Lock up Iraq's bad guys

Army Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the lone female commander in Iraq, runs the prison system that once was an apparatus of terror.

By SUSAN TAYLOR MARTIN, Times Senior Correspondent
Published December 14, 2003


Karpinski notes, with pride, that female soldiers under her command do the same kind of work as men. "Over the last 10 years, (the Army) has become an example of how men and women of every religion and ethnic background are offered the same opportunities. Occasionally the good old boy network is in place, but it used to be 90 percent of the time. Now it's 10 percent of the time."

But Karpinski knows many people still regard female soldiers as a different breed, as shown by the attention to the story of Pvt. Jessica Lynch.

"It did seem like a lot of hype, but she was probably the only female prisoner of war who was injured and dramatically rescued. . . . I don't think she wanted to be singled out other than as an example of a young soldier" - Karpinski stresses the word soldier - "caught in an unlikely scenario and rescued."

In her civilian life, Karpinski is a consultant who runs grueling executive training programs for those hoping to scale the corporate ladder. The courses, which put participants under various kinds of stress, are "not a lot of fun . . . but are a true test of the toughness of an individual's mettle."

Much more of this Must Read:

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/12/14/Worldandnation/Her_job__Lock_up_Iraq...

Exporting democracy, step by step
From the New York Times:

FOREIGN DESK | September 17, 2003, Wednesday
THE STRUGGLE FOR IRAQ: PRISONERS; 6 Held in Iraq By U.S. Claim To Be American

By IAN FISHER (NYT) 1120 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 1 , Column 2

"HALDIYA, Iraq, Sept. 16 — Six people identifying themselves as Americans, and two others saying they are British, are being held prisoner in connection with guerrilla attacks in Iraq, a United States general said today.

Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, who is in charge of prisoners in Iraq, provided no details on the men, except to say they are among 4,400 "security detainees," a category distinct from prisoners of war or common criminals. She said the "security detainees" were suspected of carrying out or planning attacks on American or other troops in Iraq, Agence France-Presse reported.

Her reference to the men, the first mention of possible Westerners among some 10,000 prisoners, was made during a tour of Abu Ghraib prison, where they are being held. American forces took over the prison, just west of Baghdad, which was notorious during the Saddam Hussein government."

http://www.lowculture.com/archives/2003_09.html

ABSTRACT - Brig Gen Janis Karpinski says six people identifying selves as Americans and two saying they are British are among 4,400 'security detainees' being held in connection with guerrilla attacks on allied forces in Iraq; says classification means they have fewer rights than prisoners of war; makes remark during tour of Abu Ghraib prison, outside Baghdad, where they are among some 10,000 prisoners; Sec Donald Rumsfeld and other officials say there is little certainty about men's identities, nationalities or even what they were doing in Iraq; military reports scattered attacks on occupying forces; Khaldiya's small and beleaguered police department vows to stay on duty despite slaying of new chief Col Khudheir Mikhlif Ali.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/17/international/middleeast/17IRAQ.html?hp

30 MORE TORTURE SCANDALS PROBED


The dossier of terror includes :

Claims that POWs were thrown to their deaths from a bridge. A videotape of the killings is said to have been destroyed.

The drowning of 16-year-old Ahmad Jabbar Kareem, who was allegedly forced into a canal by British soldiers near Basra.

The deaths of two men detained by the Black Watch near Basra a year ago. Abd al-Jabbar Mossa, 53, and Rathy Namma are both said to have suffered heart failure. Mossa's family claim he was hit on the head.

Weeks after the torture photographs were taken, a prisoner was allegedly beaten to death by members of the same Queen's Lancashire Regiment.

An MOD spokeswoman said yesterday's bombshell allegations which followed pictures of US troops abusing inmates in Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison are being investigated by the Royal Military Police.


http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=14201795&method=full&siteid=86024&headline=30-more-torture-scandals-probed-name_page.html

The black sack the troops placed over his head was removed only briefly during the next nine days of interrogation, conducted by U.S. officials in civilian and military clothes, he said. He was forced to do knee bends until he collapsed, he recalled, and black marks still ring his wrists from the pinch of plastic handcuffs. Rest was made impossible by loudspeakers blaring, over and over, the Beastie Boys' rap anthem, "No Sleep 'Til Brooklyn

<snip>

His interrogators -- first U.S. soldiers, then a man who he said wore the uniform of a Kuwaiti army captain -- sought information on the location of weapons of mass destruction, Hussein and the insurgents in his neighborhood. For the next three days, he said, the Kuwaiti man tortured him using electricity.

U.S. soldiers came in and out of the room where he was tied naked to a chair, he said, adding that he saw their boots from beneath his blindfold and heard them speaking English. He collapsed because of the physical stress and lack of food and water. He was eventually taken to Baghdad International Airport on a stretcher.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4886159/

Soldiers' story shifts from pride to shame

By Dan Fesperman
Sun Staff
Originally published May 2, 2004

<snip>

"Why was a mechanic allowed to handle prisoners?" Daniel Sivits asked plaintively in reference to his son, Pvt. Jeremy C. Sivits, 24, who was trained to repair military police vehicles for the 372nd but wound up serving as a prison guard.

<snip>

"Where was their training?" his father said. "Who was their supervisor? Where was the leadership?"

<snip>

Captain (Donald J.) Reese (company commander)now faces administrative charges, although he told his wife he wasn't aware of the alleged actions until a superior officer showed him the photos several months ago, when the investigation was under way.

<snip>

"The training tempo is geared towards basic soldier survival skills, weapons training, and a variety of military police missions," Captain Reese and 1st Sgt. Brian G. Lipinski, who also faces administrative charges, wrote that March, in a company newsletter printed by the Cumberland Times-News.

<snip>

Reese, the company commander, who according to his wife effectively became the warden of Abu Ghraib, was a traveling salesman for a custom window blind company. Others were like Sivits, who other than training as a mechanic had flipped hamburgers for McDonald's. Lynndie R. England, who was hoping to use her Reserve money to pay her way through college, had been trained for administrative jobs.


<snip>

Another problem was understaffing. Several soldiers have described trying to keep track of the 900 prisoners with as few as seven American soldiers at a time, sometimes augmented by Iraqi employees.

<snip>

Pamela Phillabaum, wife of Lt. Col. Jerry Phillabaum, an officer with authority over Abu Ghraib, although he was not a part of the 372nd, said her husband "asked the general over and over again for more people."

<snip>

Frederick often cites visitors from Military Intelligence (MI) or the Army's Criminal Investigation Division (CID) as calling the shots.

<snip>

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.cumberland02may02,0,7574567.story?coll=bal-home-headlines

If these women are ever released, and they have fathers, husbands,
or brothers, they will likely be killed because of the dishonour
they have brought on their families. No matter the circumstances,
death is the penalty for a woman who has been raped.

From what I've learned, based on travel, talking with Muslims and reading (non-biased sources only), a woman is only really considered to have brought dishonor on her family if she consents to illegal sex or has acted inappropriately.

If a determination is made that a woman was forced, the dishonor was brought by the rapist and he is the one who must be punished/executed.

In a case where the woman has wrongfully accused someone of rape, after having consented, then both are considered guilty.

I think in these cases we should worry more about Islam's laws for the rapist because it's clear these women were forced.

Even under the strictest Islamic law, including the penal code Saddam enacted in 1990, the woman 'may' be killed so that her brothers and fathers can save face. In this case, I'm confident the Iraqis are going to go after the rapists and rightfully so. There's no doubt about who brought dishonor on whom here.

Your statement incorrectly paints the Iraqis as mindless, barbaric, backwards people incapable of thought and reasoning.

But what the law says, and the way it's enacted are not always the
same. I know of one case, from an Egyptian friend, of a girl
who was killed by her father because he suspected her of having
an affair with a Christian, only to find out after her death that
she was a virgin.

Human beings are fallible, but there's no room for mistakes when
it comes to honour killings.

The law says 'may'. Why paint it as an ironclad practice? The law simply states that if the relatives kill a girl who has been dishonored they are not guilty of murder. It doesn't tell them to kill her.

If that were the case, the streets of Iraq would be littered with the corpses of "honor" killings and I certainly hope that's not the case. I would expect more compasion and understanding from the families :shrug:

Re-read this:

She was sobbing and telling that she was raped by Iraqi prison guards and American soldiers each night, and she does not want to get out of the prison. She told not to say anything to her relatives, because if she returns to Baghdad she will die from shame.

http://www.kavkaz.org.uk/eng/article.php?id=2730

Shame, not a knife to the throat from her brother or a bullet to the head from her brother. The same shame that rape victims all over the world unjustly feel.


I'm sorry about your friend. Very.
===========================================

After a little research, I admit that you're more correct than I am but I'll still maintain it's not an ironclad practice because it wasn't beforehand- why would it be now? It would be a good thing to find out just how prevalent this is now because the blood of these women being killed by their families is on the head of the occupying army, its rapists and everyone who supported this war, apologized for it, or gave their silent, complicit consent.

Either way, one honor killing is one too many.

What a sad, sad world.

According to Hodgkin, there has been an acute rise in "honor killings" and domestic violence, once suppressed during the past regime, since the U.S. occupied Iraq last April. A woman becomes the victim of an "honor killing" when her family feels she has damaged their reputation by having sex with a man, or even just by going out with him. This dishonor "entitles" a male member of her family to "justifiably" murder her. "These crimes often go unreported, and even when they are reported, police rarely take any action. So a woman's life is expendable," Hodgkin explains.

According to an Amnesty International investigation, there have been many "honor killings" in Iraq, the vast majority of which are unreported. There have been no investigations of the people alleged to have carried out these murders. Police have made no arrests. Hodgkin explains further, "If you do find a situation where a woman may have been raped, no matter what the circumstances, she runs the risk of being murdered by a male relative if she admits the incident to a family member. So if you think there's a possibility that a woman has been raped, you'd never go to her family to investigate the crime for fear of putting her in more danger."

http://paris.indymedia.org/article.php3?id_article=7237

Of continuing confusion is whether a religious practice is cultural or theological. Let's try to remember the basis upon which Jimmy Carter disassociated himself with the segment of the Southern Baptist Church wherein the secular culture was incorporated into the church's doctrine contrary to the theological tenets of the proclaimed faith. There is nothing "Islamic" about punishing a victim. This is a cultural/secular practice, not a theological practice.

especially since the Koran specifically addresses this issue.

... slavery, adopting and incorporating cultural mores contrary to theological mores.

When an organized religion (or sect) competes for adherents (or for "survival"), it sells a part of its very (theological) soul to the extant cultural beliefs and secular practices of its 'market.' When its adherents exploit it for secular advantage, similar corruption often happens.

Monday May 3, 2004
The Guardian

<snip>

The photos of US soldiers abusing and humiliating Iraqi detainees may have provoked outrage across the world. But for Hiyam Abbas they merely confirmed what she already knew - that US guards had tortured her 22-year-old son Hassan.

Breaking down in tears, Mrs Abbas said US guards had refused to let her in. She had so far only managed to see Hassan once - two months ago - following his arrest last November.

"He told me: 'Mum, they are taking our clothes off. We are nude all the time. They are getting dogs to smell our arses. They are also beating us with cables.'

"It's completely humiliating," Mrs Abbas said. "My son is sick and suffering from hypertension. During the interview the American soldiers were standing so close to us. My son was crying."

Her son had been detained in the Baghdad suburb of Al-Dora, after a gang broke into their house. What did she think of the Americans now?

"They are rubbish," she said. "Saddam Hussein may have oppressed us but he was better than the Americans. They are garbage."

<snip>

Mr Salem said he had been in the jail shortly before a visit from the International Red Cross in January. Until then, detainees in the prison wing had been kept naked.

"The night before the Red Cross arrived, the American soldiers gave them some new clothes. They told us that if we complained to the Red Cross about our treatment we would be kept in prison forever. They said they would never let us out."

<snip>

She finally managed to see him in prison two weeks ago. "He told me they are using electric shocks against the prisoners and taking off their clothes. He also told me something I can hardly talk about - that the Americans are raping the Iraqi men.

<snip>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1208408,00.html

I had such an uneasy feeling when I first read the excellent New Yorker expose, and felt compelled to point out that we shouldn't be buying the "rotten apple" excuse, that not only comes from the Army but from the president himself.

Gen. Myers' conflicting comments while making the press rounds Sunday morning only confirmed my fears that this is likely a tip of an iceberg.

This is simply one of the most tragic developments of the war to me, so far. Tragic, humiliating, and revealing. :mad:

He was lying through his teeth and tripping over his contradictions.

Thanks for weighing in because I threw in "Rotten apple lie" just for you. :) (don't you wish we had a sad, tired smilie?)

I watched "This Week" on ABC this morning, which is becoming a favorite of mine, especially due to their excellent attention to the Iraq casualties during the weekly "In Memoriam" segment. I'll never, ever forget today's "In Memoriam" segment, where Marine Lt Col Michael Strobl accompanied a young, fallen Marine killed on Good Friday, Master Gunnery Sergeant Chance Phelps, on his journey from Dover AFB to his home, and final resting place, Dubois, Wyoming.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/ThisWeek/US/In_Memoriam.html

Excerpt:

From Dover to Philadelphia; Philadelphia to Minneapolis; Minneapolis to Billings; Billings to Riverton; and Riverton to Dubois we had been together. Now, as I watched them carry him the final 15 yards, I was choking up. I felt that, as long as he was still moving, he was somehow still alive.

Then they put him down above his grave. He had stopped moving.

It had been my pleasure to take Chance to his final resting place. Now he was on the high ground, overlooking his town.

I miss him.

That his name was Chance made the entire story all the more heartbreaking.

The segment ended the way it always does, with the weekly US soldier body count.

After watching this segment, and crying a river or two, I just turned off the TV and unplugged the phone and the computer and everything else. I just had to turn away, for a few precious hours. Out of respect, and out of self-preservation.

We do indeed need a sad, tired smiley.

US tries to contain torture claims uproar

By Guy Dinmore in Washington
Published: May 3 2004 5:00 | Last Updated: May 3 2004 5:00

The US military's most senior officer yesterday sought to contain mounting international outrage at allegations against US and British troops of torture of Iraqi prisoners.


General Richard Myers, chairman of the joint chief of staff, denied new reports that cases involving six US soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad were part of a wider, systematic pattern of abuse of detainees and insisted that those responsible would be brought to justice.

The allegations are the latest in a series of setbacks for the US-led forces in Iraq. Joseph Biden, the senior Democrat on the Senate foreign relations committee, attacked the Bush administration for failing to understand the urgency of the "single most undermining act in a decade in the region" that had caused "phenomenal damage" to the US.

<snip>
Bush administration officials have stressed the importance of their own internal investigation.

<snip>
Gen Myers admitted he had not read a report completed two months ago into alleged abuses.


http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1083180230951

was because it reported that soldiers had been raping teenage girls.

Was it true?

Why would anyone believe a thing the Wermach says.

It would be interesting to document the snow-balling lies of this fiasco.

I saw stories about rapes and about the shutting down of the newspaper but don't recall one linking the two. That would be a very good one to have. Was it posted here at DU?

a quick google search turns up the extreme popularity
of Iraqi rape stories mostly on porn sites.

This definitely shows some real creepy undercurrents
flowing in the world.

The first story I saw was last July or so I look again later.

I did find this story from January 05, 2004 that is interesting.

Rumors of rape fan anti-American flames

http://www.iraq.net/News-article-sid-1131-mode-thread.html

ISTANBUL -- The allegations can be heard almost everywhere in Turkey now, from farmers' wives eating in humble kebab shops, in influential journals, and from erudite political leaders: American troops have raped thousands of Iraqi women and young girls since ousting dictator Saddam Hussein.

Articles in Turkey's Islamist press reporting the allegations have fanned opposition here to the US invasion of Iraq to white-hot anger -- and even, apparently, to murder.

Nurullah Kuncak says his father, Ilyas Kuncak, was boiling about the rumored rapes just before he killed himself delivering the huge car bomb that devasted the Turkish headquarters of HSBC bank last month, killing a dozen people and wounding scores more.

"Didn't you see, the American soldiers raped Iraqi women," Nurullah said in a recent interview. "My father talked to me about it. . . . Thousands of rapes are in the records. Can you imagine how many are still secret?"

...

I'll see if I can dig anything up. That helps already :( Those poor people. I can't imagine the horror of what they're living.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1102940,00.html

Tuesday December 9, 2003

The Pentagon did not return calls seeking comment, but a military planner, Brigadier General Michael Vane, mentioned the cooperation with Israel in a letter to Army magazine in July about the Iraq counter-insurgency campaign.

"We recently travelled to Israel to glean lessons learned from their counterterrorist operations in urban areas," wrote General Vane, deputy chief of staff at the army's training and doctrine command.

"When we turn to anyone for insights, it doesn't mean we blindly accept it," Col Peters said. "But I think what you're seeing is a new realism. The American tendency is to try to win all the hearts and minds. In Iraq, there are just some hearts and minds you can't win. Within the bounds of human rights, if you do make an example of certain villages it gets the attention of the others, and attacks have gone down in the area."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3702655/
Dec. 13, 2003

JERUSALEM - In fighting insurgents in Iraq, the United States is drawing on some of Israel’s methods and experiences in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, including running checkpoints and tracking militants with drone aircraft, Israeli officials say.

Israeli and U.S. security experts have met repeatedly in recent months to discuss urban warfare and Israel’s lessons from its grueling three-year fight against Palestinian militants

Israeli expert predicts U.S. defeat

“They are already doing things that we have been doing for years to no avail, like demolishing buildings ... like closing off villages in barbed wire,” Van Creveld said. “The Americans are coming here to try to mimic all kinds of techniques, but it’s not going to do them any good.”

“I don’t see how on earth they (the U.S.) can win. I think this is going to end the same way Vietnam did,” Van Creveld said. “They are going to flee the country hanging on the strings of helicopters,” he added, referring to the 1973 U.S. departure from Saigon.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0929/p07s02-wome.html
September 29, 2003 edition

US eyes Israeli software as training tool for forces in Iraq

For US soldiers wondering what they should and should not do in their role as occupiers of Iraq, help may be on the way from the Israel Defense Forces.

The Israeli military has developed a software program to teach junior commanders 11 "codes of conduct'' when operating among civilians - fight only those fighting you, respect the dignity of the local population, don't pillage, and so forth.

The subsequent animation tells viewers that mistreating civilians can turn them into the enemy. Another image depicts civilians who deserve to be treated with "dignity and humanity": a woman holding a child, a cleric, an elderly man, and a representative of the civil authority.

http://www.hindu.com/2004/04/28/stories/2004042802061600.htm
Wednesday, Apr 28, 2004
U.S. tactics in Iraq carry Israeli imprint

MANAMA, APRIL 27. In enforcing its siege around Fallujah, the U.S. has employed tactics similar to the ones that Israel has adopted against Palestinian fighters, in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The U.S.-Israeli connection in this field can be traced to the April 2002 battle of Jenin in the West Bank, defence analysts say. American troops, soon after this clash, were reportedly sent for training to the mock Arab town that the Israeli Army had created in the Tzrifin area of the southern Negev Desert.

The U.S. publication Defence News has reported that in December 2003, senior Israeli military officers hosted a series of meetings involving a U.S. team headed by Gen. Kevin Byrnes, commander of the U.S. army's training and doctrine command.

------------------

Could it be possible that rekindling Americas new spirit of torture is just one of many parts of a strategy called "New Realism"?

I would almost expect "Neo Conservatives" to use "New Realism" as a coined justification for torture?

Here's where it gets really ugly:

------------------

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1207-06.htm

Published on Sunday, December 7, 2003 by the New York Times
Tough New Tactics by U.S. Tighten Grip on Iraq Towns

In selective cases, American soldiers are demolishing buildings thought to be used by Iraqi attackers. They have begun imprisoning the relatives of suspected guerrillas, in hopes of pressing the insurgents to turn themselves in.

------------------

So some of these people weren't even criminals but just relatives of suspects?

And the original post has the reference to rounding up relatives:

"a prod to garner "cooperation" by rounding up the female relatives, forcing then into sexual acts that were filmed and then shown to their husbands, fathers and brothers and to the general public through porn sites."

remember our friend Kevin Byrnes from here?

December 2003, senior Israeli military officers hosted a series of meetings involving a U.S. team headed by Gen. Kevin Byrnes, commander of the U.S. army's training and doctrine command.

Here's more about what he learned and what he did with it:

http://instantreplay.blogspot.com/2003_08_31_instantreplay_archive.html
Saturday, September 06, 2003 archived

Army Gets Warrior Therapy
The U.S. armed forces have moved increasingly towards specialization in recent years, at the expense of the soldiering spirit. The Army has too many soldiers who have lost touch with their inner warrior, said Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, the Army's top training general, in todays NYTimes. So beginning next year...the Army plans to formally inculcate what it calls a "warrior ethos" throughout the ranks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/07/national/07ARMY.html?ex=1063598400&en=a06bd0ff84eed3c9&ei=5038&partner=ASAHI
Warrier mentality throughout all the ranks ( Byrnes ) Sept. 7, 2003 ..."more lethal"
Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, the Army's top training general.
But Army officials here said that emphasizing a warrior mentality throughout the ranks had been under way for 18 months as leaders in the Pentagon designed a force for the future that would be agile as well as lethal, and prepared to fight on a battlefield, like Iraq, without traditional front lines and rear areas.


http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2003/06/16/200306168419.htm
Army recruiting civilians as potential Green Berets
Posted Monday, June 16, 2003 - 2:47 am

Unconventional warfare in Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq taught the U.S. Army it needed more unconventional warriors.

And not just anyone can be Special Forces. You have to be a much more mindful soldier. It means using your brain. It means being a teacher. It means more than just using your muscles," Sully said.

The move comes as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld prods the U.S. military to become more agile and lethal.

Gen. Kevin Byrnes, in charge of overall Army doctrine and training, said officials realized they needed to attract more men into the field.

"We had (Special Forces) units operating at less than 100 percent. After Afghanistan, we fixed that," Byrnes said. "We realized ... the operating tempo of our Special Forces was so high, we decided to look at recruiting opportunities outside the Army."

Clinton DeVoe, 23, of Wilmington, N.C., said he began looking at Special Forces after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. He leaves for basic training July 8 after completing his studies in philosophy at the University of South Carolina.

"After 9-11, I decided I wanted to protect people here. ... I'm comfortable with the idea of a military life," he said, adding that his grandfather and uncle had careers in the military.

-------------

Protect people? Really?

Or did we just go outside to get some brutal people who wanted to kick some ass, because the standard military might object to war crimes?

Well, they certainly succeeded. I hope these reptiles are proud of themselves.

But of course they are... They're so proud that they can't even attend the funerals of the soldier lives they destroyed.

Sick, sick.

The US, the UK, and Israel winning hearts and minds everywhere.

Commander of the U.S. army's training and doctrine command, aka TRADOC, the command in charge of all training related to Enlisted people. This is how we ended up with Lynndie England, trained for administrative work as a Gestapo warden in cell-block 1A. The same for that poor mechanic. And a travelling salesman for window blinds as a Company Commander.

Be proud Gen. Kevin Byrnes You succeeded! Your guys certainly got back in "touch with their inner warrior"! I'll bet you never dreamed of having THIS much success!

----

On edit: Thanks for your posts. Very interesting.

The move comes as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld prods the U.S. military to become more agile and lethal.

This is why Rummy felt he was going to do it with so few troops. This is an expirament in outsourcing the army to prove that we can get it done cheaper and better by contracting it out.

They were going to pick people they selected with strong "inner warriors" and use these people to be so brutal they they could "do it better than the Army".

"We can do it leaner if we can overlook that war crimes stuff" perhaps.

That's right, I forgot- other people's lives come cheap to these sociopaths.

How many BILLIONS have we spent on this war so far?

is a very thin one; numerous psychological experiments confirm this. It doesn't take much to turn a "normal" person into a brutal thug, especially in a situation such as that which apparently existed in Abu Ghraib prison.

For a few of the better examples of this, I refer you to http://www.vaniercollege.qc.ca/Auxiliary/Psychology/Frank/Thirdwave.html and http://www.new-life.net/milgram.htm .

It especially doesn't take much in a military environment, as soldiers are, essentially, brainwashed to blindly obey orders...the Nuremburg defence, "I was only following orders", is a weak and pathetic ducking of responsibility for one's own participation in atrocity, but it's amazing how far people will go when they're told that what they're doing is all right by someone with authority.

No telling how far up the chain of command this goes, but at a guess the orders originated within the Pentagon from someone with at least assistant or deputy secretary rank. There's enough there to blow the Bush administration wide open, IF the dots get connected back to Washington.

And Seymour Hersh being on this story from the time it broke seems almost serendipitous, since he's the man who broke the story of what happened at My Lai....

had gone to Israel to study Jenin-style tactics and to train with the Israelis (rumors was that it was live training in some cases), I shuddered. There is NOTHING for our Army to learn from the IDF right now. Too many of the horror stories coming out of Fallujah and the other cities have frightening similarities to what's going on in the occupied territories. The same disrespect for life, the same humiliation & degradation. Did Sharon personally give Bush pointers? Tell him that you have to humiliate them, break them, take away their pride? Well Georgie, it hasn't worked in Palestine either. You've got a long struggle on your hands if you think this is how we win hearts and minds.

Both countries are acting despicably and bringing great shame to their people. Rabbi Arthur Hertzberg, former president of the American Jewish Congress and former vice president of the World Jewish Congress, said that both Bush and Sharon will fry in hell.

He's absolutely correct. If anything, God will create a special hell for those two. Blair can join them.

The article was about Israelis training with US soldiers IN Iraq for ASSASINATIONS! He was comparing what was going on with Operation Phoenix during Vietnam. It was frightening stuff!

Thank you for this Thread Tinoire, it is horrifying but needs to be seen and the real bad guys better pay.

on edit: I keep thinking the contractor mutilations may have been payback for the prisoner abuses. Anyone else think that?

a society that let itself be led into this clusterfuck by a lying corrupt leadership shouldn't be too surprised at the depraved behavior of its mercenaries.

Thanks for adding that gem to this thread. Very, very well put.

may interest you. It names some of the people responsible for operations at the prison.

I stumbled onto this report, while I was roaming around the internet by misspelling Abu Grhaib. Seems like Sgt. 1C Brent believes the Iraqis are governed by coalition governing laws. I wonder if these laws also apply to the private contractors, since Military Law and US Law doesn't seem to apply?



http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:WrG17RqPN-sJ:www.riley.army.mil/v...



Nov. 21, 2003
Christie Vanover, Community Relations/Deputy Media Relations Officer


FIELD ARTILLERY UNIT WORKING WITH POWS

4th Bn., 1st FA Release

On the dawn of another morning, Soldiers of the 4th Battalion, 1st Field Artillery prepare for another day to provide, protect and assist in the rebuilding of Baghdad, Iraq.

Under the command of Lt. Col. Richard F. Bowyer and Command Sgt. Maj. James R. Savitski, the battalion deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom on April 27. After the battalion arrived in Kuwait, they were in-processed at Camp Wolf and headed to Camp Pennsylvania, Kuwait.

<snip>

According to Sgt. 1st Class Paul Brent, 4th Bn., 1st FA, once the battalion arrived in Iraq, the mission was received and delivered to every Soldier. He said the battalion supported numerous, dangerous missions that were directed from V Corp, 1st Armored Division, and 3rd BCT.

Brent said that Service Battery, 4th Battalion, 1st Field Artillery is a unit that is instrumental in providing security, placement of barriers and detaining Prisoners of War and Iraqi civilians who violate coalition governing laws. The battery is led by Capt. Robert J. Smith.

Brent said countless soldiers have worked tireless hours placing barriers at many of the traffic control points, which were strategically placed enabling the unit and other units to search and seize any illegal weapons used against coalition forces.

<snip>

With the hostility that is plaguing coalition forces, Brent said the unit provided a team to assist the brigade in detaining POWs and those who violate laws provided by coalition forces. Brent led the team as the detention noncommissioned officer in charge, expediting prisoners to the appropriate detention facilities.

Brent said his duties included furnishing a detention cell for the detainees, protecting, guarding and transporting and completing proper documents for transfer. He said the team is authorized to search, segregate, separate, seize, keep the detainees silent and speed the detainees to the appropriate detention facility.

Brent said his team quickly adapted to the mission that was given and learned each and every procedure to assist the battalion to adjudicate the detainees within the Judge Advocate General system.

He said the detention team was involved in several raids that were directed from V Corps and the division. He said the capture of the four of diamonds and king of diamonds on the United States? 55 most wanted list was due to the quick reaction on these missions.

Brent said his team has detained over 555 detainees, including many Ba'ath Party members. These detainees were processed and transported to the proper facility within the prescribed time.

He said his team has successfully transported detainees from the battalion detention cell to 1st Battalion, 13th Armor, Camp Cropper and the Division Interrogation Facility. His team also transported detainees to Abu Grhaib, which is considered a hostile environment.

(Thanks for that info)

"Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 1999"

Opening Statement of Chairman Bill McCollum
on H.R. 3380, the "Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 1999"

Today the Subcommittee will consider H.R. 3380, the "Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 1999." This bill was introduced by Congressman Saxby Chambliss and I was pleased to be the original cosponsor of the bill. H.R. 3380 would amend the Federal criminal code to apply it to persons who commit criminal acts while employed by or otherwise accompanying the U.S. Armed Forces outside of the United States. It would also extend Federal criminal jurisdiction to persons who commit crimes abroad while a member of the Armed Forces but who are not tried for those crimes by military authorities before being discharged from the military.


Civilians have served with or accompanied the American Armed Forces in the field or ships since the founding of the United States. In recent years, however, the number of civilians present with our military forces in foreign countries has dramatically increased. Many of these civilians are nonmilitary employees of the Defense Department and contractors working on behalf of DOD. In 1996, there were more than 96,000 civilian employees of the Department of Defense working and living outside the United States.

Family members of American service personnel make up an even larger group of the civilians who accompany U.S. forces overseas. In 1999, there were almost 300,000 family members of military personnel and DoD civilian employees living abroad.

While military members who commit crimes outside the United States are subject to trial and punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, civilians are not. In most instances, American civilians who commit crimes abroad are also not subject to the criminal laws of the United States because the jurisdiction for those laws ends at our national borders. As a result of these jurisdictional limitations, American citizens who commit crimes in foreign countries can be tried and punished only by the host nation. Surprisingly, however, host nations are not always willing to prosecute Americans, especially when the crime involves acts committed only against another American or against property owned by Americans.

Because of this, each year incidents of rape, sexual abuse, aggravated assault, robbery, drug distribution, and a variety of fraud and property crimes committed by American civilians abroad go unpunished because the host nation declines to prosecute these offenses. And this problem has been compounded in recent years by the increasing involvement of our military in areas of the world where there is no functioning government -- such as Somalia, Haiti, and the Balkans. Because, in those places, no government exists at all to prosecute crimes, American civilians who commit crimes there go unpunished.

The bill before us today would close this gapping hole in the law by extending Federal criminal jurisdiction to crimes committed by persons employed by and accompanying the U.S. Armed Forces overseas. Specifically, the bill creates a new crime under Title 18 that would make it a crime to engage in conduct outside the United States which would constitute an offense under Title 18 if the crime had been committed within the United States. The new crime would apply only to two groups of people. First, persons employed by or who accompany the Armed Forces outside the United States. This group includes dependents of military members, civilian employees of the Department of Defense, and Defense Department contractors or subcontractors and their employees. This group also includes foreign nationals who are relatives of American military personnel or contractors, or who work for the Defense Department, but only to the extent that they are not nationals of the country where the act occurred or ordinarily live in that country.

The second group of people to whom the bill would apply are persons who are members of the Armed Forces at the time they commit a criminal act abroad but who later are discharged from the military without being tried for their crime. This portion of the bill is designed to authorize the government to punish persons who are discharged from the military before their guilt is discovered and who, because of that discharge, are no longer subject to court-martial jurisdiction.

We simply cannot allow violent crimes and crimes involving significant property damage to go unpunished when they are committed by persons employed by or accompanying our military. The only reason why these people are living in foreign countries is because our military is there and they have some connection to it. And so, our government has an interest in ensuring that they are punished for any crimes they commit there. Just as importantly, as many of the crimes going unpunished are committed against Americans and American property, our government has an interest in using its law to punish those who commit these crimes.

I wish to point out that both the Defense Department and the Justice Department support the legislation before the Subcommittee here today. The legislation is the product of close collaboration between the staff of the Subcommittee on Crime and the representatives of these agencies, and I am pleased that both Departments have seen fit to send representatives to our hearing today. I welcome all the witnesses before the Subcommittee today and look forward to receiving their testimony.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/mcco0330.htm

That bill was passed...

-----------------------------

Office of the Command Counsel

UNCLASSIFIED
AMSEL-LG POINT PAPER 1 NOVEMBER 2002

SUBJECT: The Status of Contractors on the Battlefield
PURPOSE: To summarize the rules and regulations concerning the use of contractors on
the battlefield.
FACTS:
· The contract establishes the responsibilities of the Government and the
support contractor with respect to the use of contractors on the battlefield.
Every effort should be made, therefore, to specifically incorporate the
respective duties of the two parties from the outset of that agreement. AMC
has issued AMC-P 715-18 ‘Contracts and Contractors Supporting Military
Operations’. This pamphlet seeks to integrate operations and contracting for
support of operations. Included at Appendix C of the pamphlet is a
compilation of suggested contract special requirements. Specific contractual
areas that should be addressed include: pay, accounting for personnel,
logistics, risk assessment and mitigation, force protection, legal assistance,
central processing and departure point, identification cards, medical coverage,
clothing and equipment, weapons and training, vehicle and equipment
operation, passports/visas and customs, staging, living under field conditions,
morale, Status of Forces Agreement, tour of duty, health and life insurance,
management and next-of-kin notification.

<snip>

As a general rule, the UCMJ does not cover contractor personnel although
court-martial jurisdiction may be expanded to cover contractors in time of war.
The Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act of 2000 does provide for federal
jurisdiction over crimes committed outside of the United States. This
jurisdiction covers members of and persons employed by or accompanying the
Armed Forces. The Act allows the Secretary of Defense, under specified
conditions, to authorize DOD law enforcement personnel to arrest suspected
offenders outside the United States involved with crimes punishable by
imprisonment of more than one year.
BRIEFER: John Reynolds, AMSEL-LG-B, ext. 29780.
REVIEWED/APPROVED BY:

Mark Sagan
Deputy Chief Counsel

http://www.amc.army.mil/amc/command_counsel/resources/documents/newsletter03-2/encl01.pdf

From JAG

Civilians and dependent family members accompanying US forces abroad are normally considered subject to the terms of the applicable SOFA



--- While the HN may exercise its jurisdiction, the US commander does not have UCMJ authority over these persons.? Until very recently, the US had no way of obtaining jurisdiction over these personnel



--- If the HN waives primary jurisdiction to the US, the options of the commander are limited.? (See articles entitled Debarment and Family Member Misconduct, Chapter 9, this Deskbook.)



--- To remedy this problem, Congress passed the Military Extraterritoriality Jurisdiction Act of 2000. The Act criminalizes behavior that would have been a crime in the US punishable by more than one year in confinement. The provision applies not only to military members, but also to civilian dependents of military members as well as civilian contractors.

http://milcom.jag.af.mil/ch15/foreign.htm

do fall under the US jurisdiction? I thought that was one of the cop outs they were trying to use. That the private contractors didn't fall under anyone's jurisdiction and that was one of the reasons why they set up the way they interrogated prisoners?

They don't want it out to a horrified public that this is considered "standard operating procedure" and most of all they don't want people to know which organizations were so intimately involved in this horror.

Imagine all the hearings. Imagine just who and what would be dragged out and (their excuse) covers that carefully cultivated undercover personas would be "blown".

These agents and agencies must be protected at all costs- this is why they're so willingly throwing a Brigadier General to the wolves, along with 6 lambs.

Fallujah is a HUGE scandal for the Intelligence agency which will in turn blame the people who told them to "do whatever it takes".

Wonder who they'll toss out next when they realize no one is buying this crap cover-up?

if you are in the Chain of Command and you know (there no longer is any excuse that you don't) about these crimes and you do nothing about bringing the criminals to justice? At what point do you become an accomplice?

The answer seems pretty clear; they've been accomplices from the beginning. From here on out it's CYOA (Cover your own ass).

This thing leads ALL the way to the top. Both Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz visited that prison (in Dec I think)...

And our government SHOULD be required to help them.

Of course Bush* so very conveniently tries to keep the military from being charged for war crimes. But that should not apply to civilian contractor people.

Check out this thread in LBN:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x530682

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040504/ap_on_go_ca...

Accused Civilians in Iraq to Be Prosecuted

Most likely the case would fall under the Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act, which allows prosecution of crimes committed by civilians attached to military personnel in foreign countries when those countries refuse to prosecute or, in the case of Iraq, where there is no formal judicial system. snip


Boy, it's great how quick these yahoos change their tune, when the truth starts to get out. :toast:

:kick:

This is a big story

:kick:

:thumbsup:

"I expect much worse than that to come out," said Abu Hashem, an engineer, said, referring to the pictures of naked detainees being ill-treated by US guards in Abu Ghraib prison. "They said they were liberators but in fact they are occupation troops."

There have been rumours of torture in US-run prisons in Iraq for months, so many Iraqis said the latest revelations only confirmed what they suspected.

Karim Hassan, a retired teacher, said: "There was a story going around that the Americans were torturing people, and the imam in the local mosque said female detainees were raped by American soldiers."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=517631

with Robert Baer former CIA, Sy Hersh, and a Professor of ME studies. They all agreed this story is worse than any of us can imagine and that it will force us out of the middle wast. If you missed it you can listen to the show here

Pay special attention to the part at the end where they discuss the WINGS where women and juveniles are being kept.

=====

TacticalPeak (1000+ posts) Mon May-03-04 09:48 PM
Response to Original message

8. Dismal. Dismal.Dismal.


The professor says if there are Iraqi women in the prison, it is all over.

Hersh says there is a whole wing for women and . . . juveniles.

The professor says that is catastrophic. It is all over for us. About ten days ago, there was a mortar/rocket(?) attack on the prison, in which the attackers targeted the inmates. The 'rumor' was that Iraqi women prisoners were being raped and tortured. Death would be preferable under some cultural/religious codes, so the attackers were attempting "mercy killings". The prof said that if this rumor turned out to be true or close, it was the end of the road.

Baer concurred and said it was a pivotal event in the course of the war, and that this would shorten the war/occupation(US).

Hersh said this was like My Lai in that it will erode Shrub's ability to keep the 'middle' people supporting the war, as with Nixon. A limit reached. Hersh said stay tuned for more.

Heads up if your time zone is in the future.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1523950

=====

This is the end of those neo-cons. Their entire show is crashing & burning. Let's just hope they don't burn the entire house down first because they're in panic mode now.

(Just posted by maddezmom in LBN)

Explosion Rocks Western Baghdad
Tue May 4, 2004 04:28 AM ET

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - An explosion rocked the western suburb of Baghdad that is home to the controversial Abu Ghraib prison on Tuesday, a Reuters correspondent at the scene said.
It was not clear what caused the blast, which was followed by a column of smoke in late morning.

U.S. soldiers blocked the main western highway leading out of the capital near Abu Ghraib, about 3 miles east of the prison itself. U.S. military spokesmen said they were checking the cause of the blast.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5025857§ion=news

once again, for the research. It is much appriciated my friend.

:hi:

Army report documents mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners
Tuesday, May 4, 2004 Posted: 1229 GMT (2029 HKT)

(CNN) -- U.S. Army soldiers have committed "egregious acts" and "grave breaches of international law" at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, according to a classified report by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba made available to CNN.

<snip>

numerous examples of prisoner mistreatment at Abu Ghraib:

Threatening with a 9 mm pistol.

Pouring cold water on naked detainees.

Threatening males with rape.

Beating with a broom handle and a chair.

Sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light and perhaps a broom stick.

Threatening with military dogs.

Attaching wires to extremities, including the penis.

Accusing prisoners of being homosexual.

Forcing detainees into compromising positions while naked.

<snip>

"We are Muslims. We don't go naked in front of our families. But there we were, naked in front of American women and men," he said, adding that this treatment went on for about four hours as punishment for beating a fellow prisoner suspected of spying for the Americans.

He also said guards "hit you hard in sensitive places, in the kidney, in the chest, in the throat."

<snip>

Military intelligence role questioned

The ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Jane Harman of California, wrote a letter to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld demanding a briefing on the role military intelligence officials may have played in the alleged abuse.

<snip>

In her letter to Rumsfeld, Harman requested a copy of Taguba's report on the criminal investigation, which she complained was not given to anyone on her committee, even though it was completed in February.

"As of yesterday, the report was still 'working its way' up the chain of command to senior Pentagon leaders," Harman said in her statement. "This is highly disturbing and raises questions about how seriously the administration and the White House were taking these allegations."

<snip>

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/04/iraq.abuse/

n/t

This is some really sick stuff. Bush and the Neo-con Likudniks are going down!

NO forgiveness for this shit!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4894001