What I just heard on CNN HLN outraged me

Their poll question of the day has to do with the appropriateness of the reprimand the American guards received. They were asking if it was harsh enough or if the torture was acceptable if it saved American lives (or words to that effect).

Excuse me, but aren't the Iraqis human beings? Since when does being at war mean that we can shed our morals and treat our fellow man like shit? Isn't this considered a war crime under the Geneva Convention? Are the experiments that Josef Mengele performed acceptable because it furthered scientific knowledge?

Just because we are at war does not mean that we can lose our sense of humanity.

At least that's the way I feel.

lots of people. He's a right wing asshole.

A quaint Amerikan custom which sometimes took on the trappings of a local festival. Especially when men of color were involved. These community happenings occurred into the late 60's. Note the young women enjoying the crisp night air in the state of Indiana with 10,000 of their fellow friends and neighbors.




Lynching 1930

A mob of 10,000 whites took sledgehammers to the county jail house doors to get at these two young
blacks accused of raping a white girl; the girl’’s uncle saved the life of a third by proclaiming the man’’s
innocence. Although this was Marion, Ind., most of the nearly 5,000 lynchings documented between
Reconstruction and the late 1960s were perpetrated in the South. (Hangings, beatings and mutilations
were called the sentence of ““Judge Lynch.””) Some lynching photos were made into postcards
designed to boost white supremacy, but the tortured bodies and grotesquely happy crowds ended up
revolting as many as they scared. Today the images remind us that we have not come as far from
barbarity as we’’d like to think.

indicated it didn't lead to any meaningful info and that said forms of torture are counter productive as they lead to the subject saying what they thiink the interogator wants to hear.

Again, a poll banking on the unthinking, uncurious lowest common denominator.

I find it so odd that we can't show names of US dead or pictures of coffins without huge controversy. Yet, the media keeps running and re-running these graphic photos of abuse. Is it that the media wants us to conclude that these pictures, and the actions they depict are somehow justified? Yeks, that is truly horrifying.

the more you see the photos the less sensitive we become to them

Continued scenes violence are supposed to revolt people of good conscience. NOT make them indifferent.

Once these bars are raised, you don't drop them...the Geneva convention is there FOR BOTH SIDES, not just us...

Now that these pictures have been shown all around the world, what's to stop the Iraqis (or whoever Shrub invades next) from doing this back to us???

They did not mention torture, but they have disavowed revenge by shaming our men and women.

if given the opportunity.

Our contempt for the Geneva convention will cost us dearly. As will our contempt for all international law.

During WWII we treated our POWs very well for purely political motives. How something so simple could be lost on the administration hard to grasp.

and remind them of the Geneva Convention

Also remind them that enambling horror is punishable by a war crimes tribunal (Special War Crime Tribunal for Rwanda)

To me, it looked like they were just having fun at the expense of the POW's.

How long would it have gone on if someone hadn't taken pictures? What else is continuing to happen that we'll never hear about?

Someone on another thread phrased it the best. If you wanna determine the appropriate punishment, consider how you would want an Iraqi guard who did exactly the same thing to American POW's punished.

It has the exact opposite effect just like all of Bush*'s policies.

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But Americans abusing the LIVING get reprimands, demotions and promises of court-martilas, and MAYBE prison terms.

That should settle the Iraqis down

Right

(sigh)

the first Nightline Town Hall meeting after 9/11 when they were talking about torture, and some things were specifically mentioned in the discussion, including raping children and using second-hand torture (sure, you'd rather die than tell me anything, but what if I start cutting off your children's fingers, or pass your wife around for all the guys to have fun with?) and this woman, who's husband had died in the Trade Center, basically said "yes, it's all acceptable, if there is a chance of getting useful information."

people are scared, people are angry, and in these times, it is a slippery slope, we almost want to have assholes and torturers and murderers on our side, cause it makes us feel a little safer. It is tough as hell to wage a war while keeping somewhat alive the spirit of this nation, the ideals we supposedly operate under. It is easy to slide into thinking that we have to fight like the other guys, or how we percieve them to fight. Now the aformentioned woman was probably a lovely person, someone you'd love to have babysit your kids, or play tennis with, but she was willing, in her anger and grief, to allow everything we putatively stand for to be cast aside to get revenge. This is why the justice system was designed to remove victims from exacting justice on those perceived to be guilty. We are supposed to be dispassionate in justice and in war, to be rational. This administration does not want that, right now, they want us pissed off and scared, willing to sacrafice our own liberty, our traditions and our very soul, to pursue this conflict.

If it might save Iraqi lives.

The 9/11 commission should use all means to get to the bottom of 9/11?

Wait, the * says that's not how America does things. Yet you have people rebelling against the *? Lock 'em up. Patriot act those buggers who disagree with * on this. That'lll teach 'em.

Of COURSE they have a reason for the abuse and humiliation! You can't seriously expect someone to say, "Well, we had these guys locked up for a while, and we were gettin' bored one day when Spike said, 'Hey, let's have a little fun.' One thing led to another, and before you know it . . ."

This "extracting information" ploy is as old as torture itself, because you look extra sadistic if you say you just did it for fun or to break the boredom. That's why the Geneva Conventions and the UN Conventions on Human Rights are categorical and absolute regarding torture and abuse. If you leave a loophole, you can drive all sorts of burning bamboo shoots through it.

I wonder if their opinion applies only to brown-skinned foreigners, or if it's also okay to round up a bunch of local boys from their home town and torture them all until they find out who made the bomb threat.

Abraham Lincoln gave a speech to the Union soldiers saying words to that effect.

We are supposed to be the "good guys."