Rall/Tillman Cartoon thread #2, srry, it had 180 posts

This is the thread I'm talking about:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1521565

This is the cartoon:



It's disgusting really. Words can't express how pathetic this cartoon is. Regardless of whether or not you agree with Iraq, or Afghanistan (I agree with Afghanistan but not Iraq) you are crossing a line when you begin insulting the dead. Especially someone who believed in something strong enough to give up millions, and his life, to go over there.

People like Ted Rall will bash Bush and Cheney (rightfully so) for not serving or not showing up, and in the next breath they'll trash the memory of a man who did serve and did go fight for what he believed in.

Shameful. Ignorant talk like this is what hands elections over to monsters like Herr Bush.

people won't change their mind but dig deeper.
I, for one, will hide this thread.

Wanted my say

But this is what we call a Strawman in debates. He creates a Tillman of his own making and then beat the pulp out of him. Not too hard. Maybe if he knew the man. Understood his reasoning for going. Then perhaps his commentary would have some credibility. Instead he creates a monster and beats it silly. Now if only all our jobs were that easy.

Both are provocative, but neither one is anything close to art, because they don't really make you think about anything on a deeper level.

Could've fooled me.

Seems to me it's a pretty Bush-y thing to call someone stupid for turning down a bunch of money to follow a principle.

So, Tillman is a hero because he did what he believed in, even if he was misinformed, or misled, or just flat wrong, and Rall is not a hero because he did what he believed in, even if he is misinformed, misled, or just flat wrong.

Do not disrespect the dead. Period.

I see all sorts of disrespect shown here at DU for Hitler, Strom Thurmond, Richard Nixon, Joe McCarthy and countless other folks who are no longer alive.

I'm still confused. I read the posts and the flames and the retorts, and I don't see a rational, consistent rule yet.

You're now comparing Tillman to Hitler, Strom Thurmond, etc? Use some common sense.

At least read what I wrote, if nothing else. You said that we shouldn't disrespect the dead. Period.

There were no qualifiers on your comment, no exceptions, and no room for quibbling. So I took your comment to its natural conclusion, and you're telling me that I lack common sense? I did not compare Tillman to Hitler, Nixon or Thurmond, except to note that they share the characteristic of being no longer alive. I suppose I could have said they were all carbon-based life forms, and that they all lived on the planet Earth during the 20th century. Those are common facts, not a comparison.

I'm not trying to get a flame war going, but I'm just confused as to why Tillman is a hero (in some people's eyes) for doing what he believed in his heart of hearts was the right thing, yet Rall's a scumbag or a traitor or worse (in those same people's eyes) for doing what he believes in his heart of hearts is the right thing.

If the criterion for being a hero is doing one believes in one's heart of hearts is the right thing, then the criterion applies to everyone or it seems to me to be a rather bogus criterion.

Look at his third pane: it mentions the looting of museums. This happened in Iraq, not Afghanistan where Tillman was killed. So not only is Rall insulting, he doesn't have his facts straight.

This cartoon is no worse then people calling Tillman a hero.

Gotta concur that Rall leapt over the line; aside from the fact that the cartoon takes liberties with the truth.

(I had a few add'l paragraphs critiquing Rall's cartoon, but have decided there's nothing to argue. From the first frame to the last, it is weak on facts and high on contempt.)

means that other people can say things you don't approve of.

But I'm also entitled to call it garbage, which it is.

(and I tend to agree with you) but ranting on about it is only drawing attention to the cartoon.

Is that was a stupid comic strip. Didn't say he can't make them. Cripe I just read a comic strip pitting Hitler against Stalin. I think my tolerance can withstand Rall's excesses. But by the same token it remains that he did not know the man. He did not know his reasonings. And he created a 2 dimensional effigy of the man and beat him silly after he was dead. Not much chance of him defending himself now is there?

He's free to draw his cartoons, and I'm free to say they're in poor taste. That's freedom of speech.

and while he has a right to do what he wants in his cartoons I think that he offends all soldiers overseas.

Tillman gave up a lucrative deal to do something he felt strongly about, whether I agree with his reasoning or not I think that is pretty impressive given how greedy our culture is.

There are people who signed up for the Army just to get some college money, are they somehow idiots too?

I think he should stick to picking on the dipshits who started this war instead of picking on the guys and gals who are fighting it.

That will only drive people away from the message, Ted. I like it when he skewers B*sh and the rest of the Cabal, but not the grunts, please ... they're suffering too.

be acceptable to post here? How about if Rall decided to do a strip that Kerry was a war mongering war crminal?

The point, for me, is...yes, it is provocative and no, I don't have a problem with the strip, per se. Rall has a right to make any political statement he wants.

But I think that posting this cartoon here does nothing but divide the community. Frankly, I think it provides ammunition, an example for the RW to paint us as anti-American.

If a Republican operative posted that here to use against the largest online community of Democrats to help smear Kerry and sway undecideds to support Bush....would that be change anyone's mind?

As Tillman's brother said, he's no hero, he's dead. I may not have agreed with his motivation's or worldview regarding this war, but the man paid the ultimate price for his beliefs and I can respect him for that.