Who's the target of your anger? Rall?

Or those who don't immediately denounce him?

I'm getting a bit tired of seeing the people who didn't pile on to Rall's comic with the desired kneejerking response labled as "f$#&wits" and the like.

It's one thing to not want the man to be 'dissed' :eyes: , it's quite another to browbeat and blatantly and UNFAIRLY insult people who can see a point to the comic and refuse to join in the 'let's all slam Rall!' parade.


And one more thing, from someone far more intelligent than I:

The pioneers of a warless world are the young men (and women) who refuse military service.
Albert Einstein

Period. Paragraph!:mad:

B-)

some of our soldiers are hugely naive, but some people, including me, actually feel that military service is honorable and there's nothing wrong with that. Fortunately I had a healthy distrust for the Bush administration from the very beginning, or I might have joined the army, but I don't think that these young men and women decieved themselves as horribly as some do - Bush LIED and they DIED.

Automatically, and without question, speaks volumes.

Note this is not an attack on you. This is one of THE most FOUL examples of 'groupthink' I think anyone could ever hope to find.

Certainly fighting for one's self-defence is honorable. However, it doesn't take a Mensa member to study the history of the wars the US has been involved in to catch on to the *fact* that DAMN few of them were 'just'.

*sigh*

Kerry volunteered to serve in a very dishonorable war . . . just like Tillman.

So, why is Kerry a hero for receiving a purple heart? Isn't he a fool too?

I didn't call Tillman an idiot. I don't think he is one.

I'm just not going to take seeing anyone who doesn't fall into the rightwing playbook on 'how to militarize a country completely' labeled a 'f$#@wit', as someone who 'stands with Osama', or told they should be 'sent to Abu Ghraib'.

.. I support the military, because a country does need those willing to serve for protection and to protect others who cannot protect themselves. I respect people who are willing to give their lives to something they believe in.

It's these wars that I despise. Bush's first-strike mentality has endangered the very foundation of our defense system. Notice.. it's called Department of DEFENSE.. Bush doesn't read so well, he thought it said Department of Offense.

My only problem with this never-ending Tillman conversation is that he is being held up as a hero SIMPLY because he turned down MONEY and FAME! As IF that was any more important than the people who gave their lives over in Afghanistan and Iraq who only had their families, children, and futures to give up. Pop culture has invaded the thinking of even the most liberal of thinkers... giving up money and fame is meaningless... Giving up your life and your family is a thread that all fallen soldiers share. THAT is what is important.

soldiers" parade? You don't see the irony in that?

I'm fine with Rall and his opinion. I do have an issue with someone who tries to manipulate DU by posting that and expecting people to agree or be called soldier fellators, though. I choose not to drink that kool-aid....you have a problem with that?

Please do expand on this irony you perceive.

Of course you could always be content with nitpicking my sarcastic comments, it's much easier.

on edit: I edited out the sarcasm, so hopefully my meaning is clearer now.

thanks.

..or even this country, then why Tillman? If memory serves me correctly Rall has written columns against chickenhawks and those who would send the poor in to fight their battles. Tillman clearly didn't do that.

I don't recall anybody posting any interviews with Tillman where displayed any kind of knee jerk racist or jingoistic attitudes. I'm not saying he didn't have them but based on what I've read and heard about the guy he was by no means stupid.

I guess my problem is just that it seems like a pointless and wasted target. If he wanted to decry simply the fact that he was made into a hero when other men in uniform were not then that's a valid point. But to call the guy an idiot because he put his actions where his beliefs were seems a bit gratuitous.

I wouldn't call Rall an idiot or any names though because I know enough about him to know it's not true. Something tells me he couldn't say the same thing about Tillman though which is where it seems unfair to me.

because I can't read his mind, but I'm guessing that he chose Tillman because he's the one being fellated 24/7 in the media as some god-like hero.

Nobody said he was stupid or racist, but apparently he was convicted of assault and had a reputation as a brute. I suppose we're supposed to be ashamed of speaking ill of the dead for even daring to bring up the truth. Or something.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he was 'stupid'. I will, however, include him in with the other people in this country who take are intellectually lazy and don't bother to think too hard about what is going on in the world.

This thread isn't about debating Rall's cartoon again, though. No. What this is about is the fact that there is more than one thread on DU right now insulting anyone who DARES to criticize the mighty and illustrious Tillman, who volunteered to die so Unocal could get their gas pipeline going.

...He's been dead for about a week now and there have been many threads that were far from laudatory and nobody really cared.

But lately, as Ralls cartoon exemplifies its ventured into the territory of name calling (there's no denying that Rall's cartoon said he was an idiot) which is just juvenille and unproductive.

I know about Tillman's assault and in all fairness he was 17. it doesn't excuse it, but there are many isntances on here where we all applaud people who make an effort to change and improve their lives. I've no evidence either way that's what Tillman did or didn't do but I'm not one of the ones either fellating him or tearing him down.

I just really dislike knee-jerk contrarianism no matter which side of the aisle it comes from. "Oh, the right is making this guy into a hero so he automatically must be a jerk." is just as reactionary as "Oh he joined the army so he must be a jerk".

I stayed out of those threads because IMO Tillman was no different than any other soldier who dies for Unocal or Halliburton or whomever, so this was my first exposure to the rift that this incident has caused.

Yeah, Rall called him a name. Was it juvenile? Yes. Unproductive? IMO the jury's still out on that one. If some of the bigwigs up there would expose some $hit about Unocal and Halliburton, maybe this kind of stuff could generate the kind of change we've been needing so desperately.

I dislike kneejerk contrarianism as well, but seeing these THREADS ranting about how anyone who says anything bad about Tillman is a 'f$#&wit' or 'stands with Osama' or 'should be sent to Abu Ghraib' goes WAY THE HELL over the line.

Bush
Cheney
and the guy who changed the recipe for Hostess cup cakes. They used to be sooooooo good. :(

"I used to be disgusted, but now I'm just amused."

Americans, in general, are just plain silly. Cartoon parodies of a once proud and respected nation of forward-thinking pioneers. Just look at our so-called "leaders."

(on edit: typo)

what song is that from?

Dems

But yeah... you're right about Americans and their 'silliness'. Sad that now our whimsy leads to the deaths of thousands of innocents.

But ... but ... but ... it's US doing the killing! So... we must have a good reason, right?

:puke:

:cheers:

.. people in America arent' trained to handle the truth.

no primaries election: just crown Dean.
His cartoon was just fine until the last panel. Then he showed he doesn't really get it.
Angry? THERE'S A LOT OF CRAP IN THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT - STARTING WITH IAC (OR INTERNATIONAL ANSWER).
It made my war protesting increasingly uncomfortable - to the point of staying home when IAC is organizing. This is part of the same lunacy.
The same black and white view of things as W - only reversed.

The comic was stupid because it couldn't have been MORE poorly timed politically speaking.

But people on this site attacking each other like this? Over a freaking comic?!

Simply astounding.

This bullshit nazi denounce Rall = loyalty test crap is the kind of shit they've been pulling for years.

How long will the left play their game?

We've handed over the media now (thanks, Clinton!), so I guess we're in the endgame. :cry:

Geez. Guess what.. hundreds and hundreds of other soldiers have died fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm amazed at the amount of attention the Tillman death is getting. It's sad, it's sad when anyone dies. And.. I think anyone going off to fight a war they believe in is patriotic in their own way.. even if they were duped or misguided. Some of them do mean well.

But.. the thing that sickens me with the near sainthood of Tillman is that people (even here on DU, where we should know better) are making this story bigger than it is.. just because he gave up lots of money and a chance to be famous. Aren't we just the little capitalists here? His life was precious because he was a human, but no more precious because he was almost famous, and because he turned down money. But you'd never know it from the posts here.

Can we let this subject go? I mean.. how many threads do we need of people attacking anyone who isn't impressed that someone gave up millions to go to war. I'm equally impressed with soldiers that had nothing that went to war for their beliefs.

I didn't know there was one started already. Didn't mean to post a duplicate.

I know there were at least a couple calling anyone who didn't denounce Rall ugly names.

ok when others do it in return.

I think you know I am not out to flame you personally but it's that old double standard being applied to speech which is deliberately offensive being free speech, while spech that takes the deliberately offensive speech to task being labeled as intimidation intended to silence.

Had Rall been making Einstein's point, I don't think I would have an issue. He wasn't. He was mocking the dead, who regardless of the state's goals, didn't jump in line and pass up millions of dollars for the opportunity to "get to kill Arabs."

Since Rall makes inflammatory statements about Tillman's intent and actions, inflammatory statements about his intent and actions appear to be fair game. If others are willing to stand in the shoes of Rall and take up his case, then they too get what they deserve.

It's rather chickenshit to create controversy then whine when all the incumbent privileges that accompany controversy come your way.

Rall writes comics. They're sarcastic and sometimes meanspirited. That's his job. He gets paid to do it.

Are you telling me that people on this board calling anyone who doesn't jump on the 'Rall's a _____' bandwagon all kinds of hateful names is somehow the same?

I agree that inflammatory comments and reactions are to be expected, but separate threads insulting anyone who doesn't get in line?

Rall isn't here 'whining'. I'm here asking what the $#&@ is the point with numerous threads insulting anyone who disagrees about the comic.