"We don't want soldiers in war to debate philosophical questions."

One of the lawyers for the accused soldiers on MSNBC.

the Nuremburg trials.

and the lawyer spun it into that answer. Soldiers who don't know that what they're doing is ilegal shouldn't be expected to debate those orders, or at least that's how I read his defense of their actions.

in the war crimes tribunals.

It didn't work then. If it works now, we know America is doomed.

Unless they get caught. Then we will hang them out to dry to protect ourselves.

Yikes!

Excuse me Mr. Lawyer, but I want soldiers who represent me to know the damn difference between right and wrong.

That he needed to be more like his fellow soldiers.

He felt my husband thought too much about the ifs and whys of military operations and said exactly that.

Please note, however, that the truth does not require your belief.

I was standing there when it was said.

I still disagree very much with the questioning of his conscience by his superior. It's nuance is chilling in and of itself.


failure.

We talked about it long into the night after we returned home. We were at a social function and talk turned to the "war." My husband is known as a "rabid liberal" in his company. What really bothers them is his ability to point to facts. During his year in Iraq, though, more and more soldiers came up to him and "You were right".

We both laughed at the time tha man said it-it had to be a joke, right? But the look on his face said otherwise. He even said my husband would be happier as a soldier if he read less and watched football more. I kid you not.


No apology needed..it is chilling in it's deeper ramifications and meanings.

I'm sorry to hear that. IMO thinking, knowledge, and reasoning are especially important for soldiers (particularly officers, even low ranking ones). Lack of it can have disastrous consequences.

I come from a family that has a strong military background, but each time these soldiers or their representatives try to defend them, the less sympathy I get for them.

bullshit. and what's worse, the DEFENSE SECRETARY did not read the whole report, by his own admission! How can we let these bastards get away with this? When will the country get their collective consciences back? When will we wake up? Is it time for Vietnam style protests?

Failure.

...put their lives on the line and kill or be killed. If atrocities occur then the ones who established the directives and gave the orders are responsible. I can buy that. The is George W Bush's war, so as commander in chief, he has to take the responsibility of his subordinates actions as well as the actions of those subordinate to them. The president should be indited and tried then.

fomented the troops with his wreckless & hubris language. That said, we all are responsible for our own actions or lack thereof as my trailer line states.

in what is and is not acceptable according to Law?

Unless it benefits us in some way.

failure.

We don't want soldiers in war to philosophize, really.

I'm sorry, but wars that are fought by men who are trained diligently to take orders at all times no matter the circumstances are won. Soldiers really aren't supposed to think; they are to carry out orders, and when you first enter the military, much of Boot Camp focuses on eliminating the "I" mentality. They turn you into a machine to serve America, and that's how it's done.

But I think the soldiers did more than "just carry out their orders" - they genuinely enjoyed humiliating those Iraqi prisoners. They do deserved to be punished, but not severely reprimanded. Save the severe punishment for the officers who made the order.

That parts right, Direckshun...but they lawyer does not have a point. It's not about philosophy, it's about morality.

failure.

and what of the morality of the war itself, of a good part of America watching the bombing of Baghdad like it was the fourth of July? What about 10,000 civilians killed, the Iraqi military (just following orders themselves) being torn to pieces and burnt to death by daisy cutters, cluster bombs and napalm? The cheer-leading media, the enabling Congress, the war profiteers..? What is morality in this context? Suddenly everyone is shocked and outraged. Where were they a year ago? It all rings very hollow.

**this question is not aimed at you Failure, but America.

the country is in a war-mongering mood...just like in vietnam, which makes me wonder if some vietnam style protesting is in order.

failure.

of the youth, and as yet I don't see that in large enough numbers.
In general people seem to have a higher tolerance for cruelty and violence. There has been a lot of mind-numbing TV between then and now. I'm at a loss at to how that might change. A draft? Maybe even that would not be enough.
If we turn off the TV and throw out the Prozac etc..? who knows?

Socrates, Descartes, Wittgenstein....