Anybody else out there who thinks the rest of the world is waiting

to see what happens on November 2nd? I seriously believe that if Bush is reSelected, the rest of the world may unite against the threat posed by the United States.

ReSelecting Bush could seriously be the end of the planet!

currency of exchange over to Euros.

That would bring the cabal to its knees.

our wars. Control the oil, control the economy. Don't believe it? Look how hard we are working to get China hooked on cars. :eyes:

Will they establish a 'no-fly' zone around Europe to keep US planes out?

And it is eerily reminiscent of some creepy apocolyptic movie.

Unlike the United States, most all of the nations of Planet Earth are happy just getting by. I don't think we have a massive, global assault to worry about, unless of course Bush decides he wants to start one. But the End of Days wouldn't be good on oil importation, so... ;)

Since yours is a content-free post, it's a little hard to respond.

I suppose if you want to take a hyperliteralistic approach, you'd find some holdouts. Paraguay, for instance, might stay neutral.

On the other hand, if you wanted to make a meaningful response, I wonder what you'd say.

It wouldn't take the whole world acting in concert to wreak economic havoc on the United States (which would be a far more effective approach than military intervention, which would be insane). All it takes is the major trading partners and debt holders deciding that, painful though it would be for all, the rogue elephant needs to be taken down.

The national debt is a purely hypothetical being to most people. But it's real, callable debt. And an increasing part of it is held offshore. If folks decide to dump US Treasuries en masse, the bottom drops out of the bond market, which means that the means for funding the debt tubes, which means that pretty much the whole thing grinds to a halt.

Such an approach would be painful for all. If the US economy tanks, the rest of the world suffers, too. But if it starts to look to the rest of the world like the US is going for full-out empire status, they might just decide that the fallout from economic collapse would be better than the fallout from the Fierce Warrior Chieftain's bunker-busting nukes.

I'm really curious, though, why you think it needs no more statement than a one-liner to dispose of the issue. I heard tell about this here thing called the European Union which is fixin' to have a bigger aggregate population than the USofA, and to be at least close to even in terms of economy. Seems pretty united to me. If the US starts squeezing the oil spigots, a European-Asian alliance is not at all difficult to see and--guess what?--that's where a big hunk of US treasuries live.

keep this from being another content-free post, I've... Well.

Now you mention it, I smell something, too.

to come to DU and not worry about weathering your wilting scorn.

I don't think I can take this kind of sophisticated sarcasm.

But it's a good opportunity for you to get your post count up, isn't it?

major world unification in the months leading up to november. and when kerry is elected, we'll see a day of world celebration. (i'm very serious about this)

i, for one, can't wait to post here on election night "our long national nightmare is finally over"

cities around the world when bush is booted. Wouldn't be a BIT surprised. There sure will be dancing in THIS neighborhood!

Unfortunately, "our long national nightmare" won't really be over until Kerry's innauguration. I dread what the REAL "sore losermans" will do after the election does NOT go their way. In fact, I'm even wondering if his lordship will even bother to show up on Kerry's innauguration day, to watch his opponent take over "his" throne. He's just petty enough to stay home and sulk.

All it will take is

- one 'major' incident on our soil
- the christmas treeor alert goes to "red"
- and 'in the interests of national security' and 'to not make a target' (ie. polling places)

we live in a continual state of Marshall Law, since it will never go off red.

the lower Shrub's polls go, the more likely it is I fear.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

CONSTANTLY.

The whole world, both on a collective and individual level, is waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I think alot of people thought (hoped) it 'dropped' when we went into Iraq. I think alot of people HONESTLY felt like we'd go in there, get Sadaam, and get out and everything would be wonderful. Or that Sadaam would surrender.

But that hasn't happened. Things are getting bad, again, on a collective and individual level. Tensions are high. There's an increasing attitude of "fuck america" on a worldwide level---from culturally to militarily to economically, even to a 'fuck americaNS" which is potentially dangerous for people like my husband and I who like to partake in foreign travel.

Will we be invaded? I could see sceptically feasable situations where that may possibly happen, but probably won't.

I can see us feeling the heat and just saying "fuck it" and going nuclear in the ME. Kind of a murder-suicide pact thing, where we'd do something just to pull out all the stops, knowing full well we'd be destroyed in the process. Again, feasable--yes. Probable--probably not.

More "terrorism" in the US? More Carnage? More "evil" countries to liberate? More governments to isolate and insult? Most definitely.

And that's the scary reality. THAT is what separates DU'ers from "Mr. & Mrs. "I'm not interested in politics"" WE REALIZE that this election isn't just about "US" as in the United States. It's about US as in the WORLD. We see beyond our own school boards and neighborhood councils and see that we have pissed off ALOT of people in this world.

Scarry indeed!

I think it's doubtful that we'll be invaded. Americans have a reputation of being cowboys, and as such, we also have a reputation (especially now!) of "shoot first ask questions later" Any nation or group of nations that mobilized against us would know that when things got bad we'd just kick off nukes and Russia would automatically respond.

The rest of the world isn't as stupid as the US to set something like that in motion.

But there are a number of things the rest of the world can do to isolate or marginalize us.

For example: What if Europe asks this question: 'Do we really need America's money and industry?' They were pretty self sufficient before we came out of our neutral shell at the onset of WWI. It would stand to reason that they could do it again. If Europe (and other wealthy nations) turn their backs on us we'd be in the crapper instantly. Of course, the other nations would have to be prepared for the obvious response, that being American interests pulling plugs on investments in other countries.

Another thing the world could do is kick out most of our military from their countries. One of the things that works well for us, and makes most of the world fear America is the proliferation of US military bases everywhere. Kick them out, and suddenly the US isn't as scary as it is today. Sure we'll still have nukes and air craft carriers, but that's all we'd have. Not nukes, and air craft carriers, and bases in every nation in the world that could be an invasion staging ground.

That would, effectively, remove our strength and send a message that the world isn't going to trust us for a very long time. That will hurt us financially and do extreme damage to our reputation. And we'd fall for it. America has a notion that we are the only ones who can defend the planet (against who I wonder?) and that if a country told us to pike off, our response would be equally crass -- we'd say something like "Yeah well, bite me! Don't come callin' when the <insert fear inducing group here> comes knocking on your door!'

What if the nations of the world started helping each other out instead of running to the US for aid? That would kill us as well. One of the big bargaining chips the 'pugs use is sending and pulling foreign aid. Once we've gotten some poor country by the family jewels, then we tell them that we'll cut interest rates on the "loan" if that country let's our corporations run wild and economically rape the populace of the country. Its and old business trick we, as a nation, have done over and over and over. IF other nations wake up and start asking help from Britain, France, and/or Germany -- we'd be in a world of hurt. A major part of our government's funding would suddenly dry up, and at the same time, tons of very large corporations would tank because they would be cut off from the profit raping they've become accustomed to over the past few decades.

The world is not a comic book.

First of all, no country could invade the US at this time because no country besides us has the ability to project its forces throughout the world. China doesn't have the Navy. Russia doesn't know if it has a Navy. Europe doesn't have the troop strengths. And if you haven't noticed, we don't border any of these countries. Basically, someone would have to sneak a rather large army into Canada or Mexico without us noticing. So stop that talk right now.

Secondly, if Europe turned its back on the US, it's economy would deflate like a beach toy. Granted, ours would as well, but why intentionally cause a world-wide Depression. The only thing that has been keeping the world economy afloat for the past ten years or so is the seemingly unending consumption of the American economy. Think for a second what would happen to - say - Norway if America was no longer available for its cell phones? Where would Canada sell its timber? Japan its electronics? These countries couldn't match our consumption of imports now, let alone after they lose their biggest customer.

Hate us they might, Egypt is not going to give up the $6 Billion in Aid we give them each year. And Britain and France can't pay it.

As for military bases, we're already leaving Germany and Saudi Arabia (and doing tremendous damage to Germany's economy while we are at it). And we own most of the land for our bases anyway. Japan would have to actually forcibly remove us from Okinawa.

... A major premise in what I said was based on the idea of other nations supporting each other.

Typical single-minded American reaction. Where would Canada sell it's timber? Anywhere but the US, that's where. The same goes for everybody else in the world. Canada and Europe have a huge hunger for eletronics and Japan can do well there.

The premise is based on Europe and other first world nations waking up to the realization that they don't need the US. What they can do is unite together economically and they'll dwarf us. France may not be able to pay Egypt 6 billion, but the EU and the Middle East can. Nations that don't get a long very well suddenly become very good friends when presented with a common enemy. Take a look at the tribe in Iraq right now as an example. Hell, look at how happy we were to play with Russia during World War II!

Also, where in my post did I suggest that this would happen over night? It could happen over time, as I pointed out that the other nations would have to be prepared for such a move.

As for bases, we have over 400 bases world wide. Shutting down a few in Germany and Saudi Arabia is hardly putting a dent in anything.

AND, I also said that a military strike is doubtful... in case you were wondering, that means "not likely" or "very low chance" Yes we are, more or less, and island nation (continent would be a better word), I was casting off the idea of a military strike because of our nukes. I said that if such an assault happened, and and if it went badly for the US, we'd just nuke away. The nukes alone kill the idea, they kill the idea even if the impossible happens and a sea assault occurs against us.

I suggest that you learn to read before you start tossing about "comic book" accusations.

I never said any of this stuff is likely, I was suggesting what could happen.

...but only if they believe that America will be a threat. Under George W Bush, that is a given. We know that now. He was selected as president because he had a war agenda and victory and world power at any cost. We can see that now. John Kerry can change that.

...as an earlier post stated. You might also see petro-dollars become petro-euros. Could this country survive in isolation? I'm not sure.

international ban on purchases of products and services from US companies.

I see nothing in the supermacroecononmic data (the "supermacro" is a term used to describe interactions between several macroeconomies) to suggest that there is any impact of the currency of choice for any commodities in play. The neocon economists would agree with you that it matters which currency is used to buy oil, but there's no data to support that.

Also, economically isolating the U.S. would create a negative impact upon the world economy that would be more than many, many countries could bear.

Isolating an Iraq or a North Korea is a fairly simple task for most countries. Isolating an $11 trillion leviathan is not workable and will never happen. As badly as i want Li'l Georgie and his gang of thugs to be embarrassed on the world stage, this idea of sanctions against the U.S. is a nonstarter.
The Professor

I defer to your expertise on currency issues.

I don't think that anything particular is going to happen upon the election (god forbid) of the Fierce Warrior Chieftain. So far, his gang has limited itself to messing with the lesser parts of the world.

But the natural end of the current course of action is hegemony. If the US verges on total domination, wouldn't it make about as much sense for other countries to suffer the vicissitudes of economic meltdown as an alternative to being place in vassalage to the USofA?

The rest of the world knows what the US is capable of. Bush* has shown that a nincompoop can become president and can run roughshod over humanity. That has them alarmed without question.

Whether Kerry wins this time or not, they know another Bush* like moron is inevitable in time. So, each country is no doubt making plans how to deal with an over-dominant US.

I don't see any formal alliances against us springing up. It will be much more gradual and informal.

Still, if Kerry wins there will be a lot of very happy people throughout the rest of the world. They know what a menace Bush* represents.

Glad to see some people envisaging realistic options, how much unpleasant they could be. The harm is done, and even someone as Clinton (he was really popular) could not fixed it.

But the US presidential election is a US internal problem, and other countries have nothing to say about it. It’s of course another matter when it comes about foreign policy. I fear that your next president may have a colder welcome than expected.

Anyway, it’s true that a lot of people will be relieved if you have a president who don’t “hear god in his head”. Positive discrimination can be good a thing, but putting nuclear in the hand of a simple-minded is perhaps too much.

of this United States, to do something about these criminals, as in throw them out (not sure we even have till the elections). We don't have alot of time left........

well after they finish pulling out.

we will simply be left in our OWN misery...


peace

First of all, who is the rest of the world? Do you really think that an alliance is going to form between Europe, Russia, the Arab World, and Asia against the US? No way. Far far too many dispirite interests there.

Secondly, what could they do? Obviously, nothing militarily. Russia doesn't have the capabalities to project a force any longer. None of the others do (with the limited exception of Britain). And even if they could it would be suicidal.

That leaves economic sanctions of some sort. This could be effective but would do tremendous damage to the economies of those doing the sanctioning.

:eyes:

there's a hell of a lot they could do.

You're forgetting about the military power of France and Britain. Combine that with everybody else who's got aircraft carriers and subs and we could be seriously fucked.

At my most pessimistic, I think what started with an attack on 9/11 is going to end with an attack on America, when the world gangs up on us because we are the biggest threat to the world.

Europe already thinks we're a bigger threat to the world than terrorists.

So there ya go.

The key is that Britain and France can't project their forces outside limited ares without US assistance.

Besides, I find it incredibly hard to believe that NATO members are going to declare war on each other. This is not pro wrestling; Tony Blair is not going to hit George Bush with a chair at a joint press conference.

I reiterate; this is silly.

Hubris, thy name is Homeland.

The world is holding its breath.

Americans ought not kid themselves. The great powers are drawing lines in the sand for America. Bush's folly will not be allowed to continue unchecked forever.

and holding its breath. This grand experiment, this democracy that America was founded on, not so long ago is under threat unlike any other...and we shall see come November just how strong the ideals of democracy are.....will it pass the test of corruption, cronyism and militarism from within, or will it collapse into a psuedo fascist state....will democracy prevail? That is what the world is watching. And I firmly beleive that actions have already been put into motion to combat the hyperpower of the US. Maybe combat is the wrong word....a counterbalance would be more appropriate.

What the planet needs is not a force to unite against the hegemony of the US. What we all need is a system of accountability...or a counterbalance. It saddens me greatly that at this juncture in history, when the US stands alone as the superpower, or hyperpower of the world we did not take advantage of this unique situation to create a more stable environment globally....instead we flaunted our strengths, alienated any who disagreed with the Bush doctrine, coerced others into forming alliances, and polarized the world.

as more and more countries are joining the EU, it would be prudent that they have a contingency plan.

doors, is truly in denial.

The world leaders are very afraid of the PNAC crowd. Just listen to their representatives discuss this type of thing at the UN, at their own political speaches in-country. They mention PNAC by name -- the Egyptian president just mentioned it in his speech when he was coming out against the prison torture photos.

Haven't you been studying Pootie-Poot's actions -- and RE-actions? Russia is biding their time. And European leaders getting voted "out" when they support bush?

There are already some economic "safety measures" being considered, from Japan, Russia, China, and some members of the EU. There is a new Muslim currency (can't remember what it's called) backed by gold. Watch the gold markets. And watch George Soros and Warren Buffet with their investments. Then tell me that the world isn't taking the threat of the neocons seriously.

:kick:

no matter the military might. This one will go down into the dust
along with prior ones. A little history reading shows they mostly deteriorated from within. The US is deteriorating as we speak, a much divided nation and becoming ever moreso on an hourly not daily basis. Whether you believe/accept it the greatest prophet ever to walk the earth said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

And they will look upon this as a referendum on the sanity and intelligence of the American people. If Bush "wins," then we will lose all respect from friend and foe alike. We are almost to that point now, but our "friends" saw how Bush stole the election of 2000, and they have taken us off the hook in some respect. We can't afford to let 2000 happen again, both for ourselves, and the rest of the world.