We've Lost the War

The resistance of the people of Falluja demonstrates that there's no way for us to win in Iraq. The Marines backed off when they saw that an all-out massacre would be counterproductive. This was a huge victory for the Iraqis, and it turns the whole dynamic of the war. The recent disclosures of prison torture add to the global perception that Americans have no compassion for the Iraqi people.

The war was never legitimate. It was begun under the fraudulent premises that Iraq posed a threat to us (it didn't) and that the Iraqi people would welcome our soldiers as liberators (they don't). Our ultimate vulnerability is that we can't win politically because we can't stay there. Americans won't tolerate the high body counts it would take to subdue places like Falluja.

It's Vietnam all over again. Bush was warned about that possibility and ran that risk. The war isn't over, but we've lost.

in fact going in the way "we" (i.e. Bush) did doomed it to failure right from the beginning. Maybe if von Rumsfeld had listened to the professional soldiers and went in with adequate forces to provide security thing would have been different... maybe.

I am not at war in iraq... some criminals are. I observe that those
who live by war are ugly suffering souls... certainly not "we" but
some scumbags in a corporate congress with cognitive dissonance
and mental illness as the basis of their fascist state.

The loss belongs squarely on * and the GOP. They had a hard-on for this for years.

The bed of nails has been made. Let THEM sleep on it.


:kick:

my thought was, how ironic we go in and take down the army to only create exactly the same army, arm them adn allow them to gather to fight our soldiers all over again, just more organized. and with greater support of the iraqi's as they are so pissed at all our missteps they will take their own abusive government and lieing government than the u.s.

was considered desirable by the military that values efficiency
over democracy... saddam's generals were surely that.

we didnt do that. we do it a year into it and the iraqi's hating us and wanting us out. i am feeling htis is not a support army be created but a get us out army being created

the question is how many will die and how many will kill
before this is admitted by the power elites.

Everyday that passes more lose limbs, lives and have
experiences that will haunt their dreams for life.

I am afraid that Americans will tolerate high body counts
all that remains is Bush to choose if he wants to join the
A-team of historical monsters or remain in the Bush league
as a simple war criminal.

What was it that ended the war in Vietnam?
Eventually there was a loss of support.
How did it happen?

was not enough.

In the end I think they ended the war because by
closing the divide with China the domino theory
reasoning to continue it became moot.

I was to young to know for sure but my impression
is loss of public support was not enough to end the
war. It was ended because it was no longer useful
to the state.

Loss of public support may make the difference now
because it is still possible to declare mission done
and bring the troops home. This is at odds with the
ideological and religious reasoning of the Bush gang
so I doubt logic will affect his decisions.

With Kerry there is a chance.

But we can say MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

what was the mission? Can someone remind me?

moment we started the bombing in the very beginning. Any fool could see there was no way we could win this kind of war. You either have to get out of the tanks, or just blow people away indiscriminately.
I never understood the people who said we could blow them away no problem. Even as late as last saturday, one of my friends was still harping about "we didn't do what we should've done". I asked what was that. He said just surround the place and smash them door to door. I said what about world opinion. He said we don't have to worry about world opinion.

What a collosal fuck up. It's not like they weren't told not to do it.

I don't got to show you not stinking World Opinion!
Bring em on !
Mission Accomplished !


This stuff is not being done in my name either. I look at the junta in control as a rouge government. I am still astonished it has so many supporters.
Have we learned nothing?

MONSTROUS, arrogant, ruthless, ignorant fucking bastards!!

:puke:
:argh:
:mad:

'we' invaded 2 sovereign nations to (1) secure oil/energy for western world, and (2) re-launch the war industry. both countries (and both goals) are well in hand, secure as can be.

everything else is smoke & mirrors...IMHO.