What's the ratio of good deeds versus bad deeds in Iraq?

How many people are helped versus hurt in Iraq by our soldiers and support groups? Any real (non-knee jerk) numbers to help highlight the good versus the bad or ugly?

to evaluate the morality of our actions in Iraq? Don't forget to consider other bases of moral reasoning such as human rights and justice!

In simple terms I suspect some Iraqis are better off and some are worse off. Some Americans are better off, some are worse off. I don't know how it breaks down but I don't believe it has been a resounding success.

get electricity back

Get schools built

Hospitals equiped...

The saying in the military though applies here

One fuck up will counter 100 atta boys... so it really does
not matter any longer, those photos are now defining the war...
all the good deeds that have been done have been erased.

We repaired schools and power generation facilities and other infrastructure but we haven't really been able to make major improvements over the pre-war period. That will come in time if we have the resources and the ability. The opposition we are facing there, however, makes it harder.

but the old saying applies, one fuck up counters one hundred atta boys and this is a major one.

I will say it, the war is lost and we need to bring the troops home.

It will take at least a generation to repair the damage to our reputation, if we are ever able to repair it. That area of the world has historical memory, we don't

The image of a GI giving a bar of chocolate to the kids in Paris (which the deluded neo cons thought we would have in Iraq) has been replaced in the eyes of the world by the image of a hooded prisoner, arms extended cross like, with an inquisition like hood over his head.

But Bush, being the "resolute leader" that he is, will not bring this war to an end. He relies on the war as a means to be re-elected. The war in Iraq and the war on terror (which to him are the same thing) are his organizing principles.

Their fate is only decided by one's ignorance and hate or their embrace.

and the Electric grid and museums and homes and lives . . .

Why state how much good we are doing and fail to mention that all we are doing is repairing the damage we have wrought?

...at last count from American bombs and fire-fights. Does each of those count as a bad deed or a good deed?

I have never see your 10,000 number in a valid press. Got a link to a valid source (not aljazeera, Pali*.* etc) that I can peek at?

It seems to me the press doesn't like to talk about Iraqi deaths unless it claims them to be armed insurgents.

You mean, unlike those lying Ay-rabs who were telling all those filthy lies about torture all this time? Those unreliable guys? Can't take their word for anything, that's for sure.

Gotta see it in the American press. They tell the TRUTH!

nope

"Never mind" indeed!

There's not enough lipstick in the world for this pig.

I see what you're getting at, but you might want to start by listing a few things yourself, no?

But then it might become a little too obvious what you're up to

Yes, we've patched up some schools and done some outreach programs, but the whole thing was a vicious, unprovoked invasion. There are over 20,000 Iraqis are dead, many more are maimed, and their families are grief-ridden and facing destitution because of it. Crime is rampant, when there was little before. Electricity is just getting back to pre-war coverage, if that. Sewage and depleted uranium dust are causing serious health problems. Idiot Evangelists are shoving their silly guesses down the throats of an abject and prostrate people, thus driving the hatred deeper.

They've got some consumer goods now, and they've got satellite TV, but not if they're poor or displaced.

This was manufactured and never should have happened. In the balance, even from a cheery perspective, we're thoroughgoing rotters and have brought hell on earth to a place that we helped suffocate for over a decade.

Don't try to feel put-upon or wronged by the bad press we're getting; we deserve every bit of it and more. Our concerns are still shockingly selfish, and nothing more than pathetic wails of egocentrism. There are some good people over there who are trying to help, but their deeds are swallowed in a sea of vulgar inanity.

In light of your nom-de-board, newbie, think of it as the spiritual equivalent of the Battle of the Somme; hey, the Allies DID gain a little ground, after all...

Thank's for your opinion and I'll put you down as a plus.

Consider it a metric on our way to the future.

EOM

Know what I mean?

EOM

FYI

I am confused, perhaps because it is so much past my bedtime.

It's past my bedtime too. goodnight.

just how bad the bad actually is...


Speaking as the wife of a soldier who served in Iraq, I find it disdainful that anyone would compare the 2 (good deeds/bad deeds) this way.

Such a reckoning is little more than "bottom line" thinking that encourages people to view the bad through a filter.

I could list numerous good things my husband's company did to help Iraqis..but that in no way changes, minimizes, or compensates for the bad done by other soldiers.

Illegally invading a nation that posed no real threat to our collective security. What ensued from that point on, is of little bearing.

Ends do not justify the means.

(edited to include additional thought)

I think you have strayed from your home.
You will soon be history, your agenda is a little too obvious.
Take your war-apologist arguments where the dittoheads can fully appreciate them.
You ARE the weakest link, good-bye.

That was the foundation upon which we told our troops they could base their "good deeds." The USA (my country, using my tax money) flattened Baghdad and permitted the looting of cultural and artistic treasures of human history going back over 5,000 years, while posting tanks to guard the Oil Ministry. The USA virtually abandoned Afghanistan to poppy-growing warlords so they could capture one nasty Iraqi bastard who never attacked us and was not harboring terrorists.

Beyond that, the Neocons in charge -- none of whom ever actually served in the armed forces -- broke apart a functioning military system so they could "privatize" essential support functions by hiring them out to the highest bidder, who happened to be the Vice President's once and future employer.

In service to a Neocon wet-dream of a lean and agile military force that would create a vast American Empire, our troops have been understaffed, undersupplied, and overworked. A battalion of 500 troops are trying to control Fallujah, a city of 500,000 pissed-off people fighting on their own turf.

Inexperienced young National Guardsmen were left under the command of private contractors (and/or Military Intelligence, the story changes) who tutored them in "softening up" prisoners for interrogation. IN OTHER WORDS, MERCENARIES WERE IN COMMAND IN THAT HELL-HOLE??? AND NOW A BUNCH OF YOUNG GUARDSMEN AND WOMEN THAT THEY CORRUPTED ARE ABOUT TO BE COURT-MARTIALED?!?

I forget--what was your original question?

Oh yeah. The good deeds of our troops. I'm sure there are some. I know very well there are some. My heart breaks for them, because this is not their fault.

But the Bushite Neocons in Washington DC who have set all this in motion have made it impossible to do it right, and it is their bad deeds and mistakes that will outweigh every decent thing our troops will do. Far outweigh.

Hekate