Rumsfeld Hearing 5/7/04 Thread 10

Senate Hearing Threads

here's thread 1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&...

Thread 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1548432&mesg_id=1548432&page=

thread 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1548776&mesg_id=1548776

thread 4
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1548969&mesg_id=1548969

thread 5

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1549172

thread 6

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1549474

thread 7

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1549701

thread 8

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1549978

House Committee Hearing

thread 9
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1550507

going on and on about changes in chain of command, blah blah. It seems that the entire change is destined to provide more restrictions on information leaking out. MILLER the new general is the one that set up the prison in Iraq to begin with. And now he will cork the leaks.

praising the soldiers' great work and how high spirited and energetic they were about their work. Two months later the Stars and Stripes morale survey came out, which said that 49% didn't plan to reenlist, morale was so bad. Warner missed it all, embarrassment that he is. Did he even bother to visit Abu Ghraib and check on morale levels there??

People are bailing out their boss...

Oh and Richard again STOP blaiming this only on bad apples

but then again, cRummy's answers haven't exactly amounted to much

I am not kidding here, he actually looks sick

Yeah, like yourself, Rummie and W.

They were given soft balls, they are answering softballs.

Oh and the latest in doctrine and training

Com'on what happend to BASIC

in the past and Rumnut just took advantage of his speech impedeiment to limit the questions from him.

I've been working in nursing for twelve years and this is what it looks to me.

potential democratic adversary. I hope she has a chance. You cannot imagine how stupid and right-wing this guy is.

george? -- would you like to stand up and take a bow?

have seen, it looks like a republican love fest.

Am I right or I am just catching the lovey parts.

have it set on mute.

The sad thing is, it is being aired in Iraq! Here I sit while the United States House of Reps. makes total fools of our country.

This sucks bad.

lets destroy the crime scene, we really do not want the
Bergen Belsen of our days to stay up.

the bastille was not destroyed, and neither was Aushwitz, they are
reminders of what humans can do to each other.

of time and air. I don't know how he ever got into office, even here. Oh well, Boyda will take him down and we will be rid of this embarrassment.

this keeps happening to me! I promise I did not hit post twice!

Help me out here, cRummy...


How is the torture at AG the past


oh, and while I'm at it...get a frigging hearing aid, cRummy!

is guilty of more than 700 American soldier deaths.
Lack of body armor, etc. etc.

In the Senate hearings? How does he figure?

lack of man power, contributing factor

He actually took the time to read the report from Ryder, which Rummy has not even read.

He also read Taquba

Folks he is about to do a tongue leashing.

the torture is happin' while they're there investigating the torture? Is that what I heard?

cannot fix the problem if we don't know of the problem... and what rummy does, oh yes 18K criminal investigations, how could I kow of this one? Rummy free clue, this is a WAR CRIME

showing the pattern of abuse.

no WMD
no body armor
not enough troops
no humvee armor

This guy is REAL good.

and military families are on his ass. Is he up for reelection this year?

not soapboxing. Both sides. Each side is preaching to their own choirs and we're not getting any closer to any real answers.

Taylor said he shares in the responsibility of 700+ dead soldiers.

He was dynamite.

is truly on the defensive

Oh and Rummy three people did step to the plate, three ENLISTED personnel, starting with a Private First Class... PfC Darbe... not with the Generals.... where was that damn leadership

2999 of them are for things like shoplifting, fighting, sleeping with the wrong rank, etc.. I think they could have put a little more effort into moving this thing up the chain of command. They didn't care and the only thing they care about now is the pictures - not the crimes.

He did nothing.

Taylor is kicking butt.

My case load was so heavy and I had so much to do, I just didn't get around to it.

There were rumors..or those known unknowns, you'll recall me speaking of those a while back...anyway...the known unknowns that we didn't know could not be told to Congress until they became unknown knowns that we do know...now about those digital cameras....

about things that were normal in the 20th Century.

Uh?

everything Rummy has said so far.

just a cue for someone else to answer for him!

Rummy knew he had a big problem on his hands back in Jan. And yet he didn't share it with the prez? But what about Big Time?

for the job.

US torture of prisoners/detainees began in the public forum with John Walker Lindh. The written obscenity over his blindfold, his nudity, the Special Forces posing with their "souvenir" for photos were standard operation procedure from the get-go, and Rumsfeld's knowledge of all this but refusal to do anything about it because he was too busy to check on a "rumor" gave a carte blanche to our military to continue the behavior. And they did. Now the 1AD is extended beyond its 12 months because Rumsfeld's cavalier attitude toward security have pissed off the entire Muslim world.

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2002/04/13/story46355.asp

...as part of a written court filing, Lindh’s lawyers last month released a picture of him in Afghanistan, blindfolded, strapped to a stretcher and naked. Defence officials have said that while that photo may have appeared shocking, it was taken out of context because he was naked as part of his preparation for medical treatment.

In the newly-revealed incident, Lindh has an obscene, derogatory word written across his blindfold, a senior defence official said.

The Pentagon has repeatedly limited the media in the kind of photos it can take of prisoners from the war in Afghanistan on the argument that photos subjecting the prisoners to humiliation violate Geneva Convention provisions on treatment of prisoners.

The photos troops took of themselves with their prisoner were found when the Pentagon did a computer search for documents and other materials ordered by the court hearing charges against Lindh, another official said.

Existence of the photos were first reported on CBS Evening News, a television programme.

Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld said he did not know if the photos were being held at the Pentagon and that he hadn’t seen them.

‘‘You know, there’s hundreds of detainees, and about every day somebody says something,’’ he said in response to reporter’s questions.

‘‘I guess if you ask me when I got up in the morning - and we’ve got people being killed in the Mideast and we’ve got a war going on in Afghanistan - if I am going to change my schedule and go chasing after rumours on things like that, it’s unlikely,’’ he said in impromptu comments in a Pentagon hallway.

Well, I...I think it must have been ...*looks at timeline*... soem time after the 13th of january...but I don't recall specifically...yeah...some time in January, febraury or march.

Lying? Yep. Good? No.

He's trying to keep the buck from passing through him imho.

more than just a couple times

January, February or March.

Gee I'm glad they made such a big impression?

Now, he just admitted that they haven't even bothered to watch the video yet. Mayber they're waiting for it to come on DVD?

during the FCC hearings.
Her tone of voice...eeeewwww eeewwww

of herself didn't she!

Lets see if she goes 0 for 2.

of the abuse is the problem.

He pretends that this criminal investigation is no different than any other investigation. He clings to the fiction that the problem in an investigation from above creates hazards for the rights of the accused.

The very same man who thinks it is perfectly fine for "material witnesses" and "enemy combatants" to be held without attorneys and forever.

The Members of the house are a bunch of cowards.

I think it's very important that we blame howard stern
(just kidding) I do not like this lady .

That's what Randi Rhodes just said .
Randi just got her feed live and is
listening live now , while commenting
Randi Style LOL...

No, they don't need to have visibility into all 3000 court marshals per year. He cannot hide this under that bullshit. I think somebody could have figured out this was some important shit. Somebody did. They're only suprized there are pictures and they can't slough this off as a partisan ploy. BASTARDS.

Nov 13, order placing the prison under the command of MI.... 201st Military INtelligence Brigade... units are TacOn to 215th MI...

God this to a point exonerates Karpinsky....


oh she wants that order, no she is not gong for 0-2

after the FCC, she is batting 500... and rummy;s body language is not good

She is quoting Taquba... which is contrary to army regs... GO WILSON... she is pressing, did you just ask me a question, and shoemaker is bailing Rummy, he cannot hear, bull hokey

and Sanchez signing the order...my my...but this just took an interesting turn

no wonder they have been directing attention away from MI. Until now...that is

THE REGULATIONS!!!!!

(R) Wilson was good.

comman! Who signed that order??? Isn't that against army regulations?

but since it's their precious Bushler, they won't even notice.

They were in charge - now rescinded. What does this tell us? It tells us that they were in charge and directing the orders including the torture and training of the troops to be just that IMO.

can you feed Rummy a better one?

not likely, but he needs to go

in my impression that rummy is blaming digital cameras???
someone please help!!! thanks. :shrug:

the horror this got out... not the crime but that we are
here having this discusion due to photos

People taking pictures have caused the problem. Had it not been for those pictures, all would be well.

It's not the torture, it's the pictures of the torture.

I'm speechless, except for the word "Surreal"!

Oh and now Snyder is worried about Darbe... and whislte blowers are
very much disliked in the military... and Gen Smith KNOWS better.

He should be removed from theater...

looking tired and needing a vacation with his wife. For God's sake, our soldiers are dead and they'll never never get a vacation with their wives, children and family. Who is that asshole?

did you notice the body language?

You would think the SOD and Chair of the JCS would be just hitting their stride at 5:00 PM?

I mean physically sick

They know they are in trouble... real trouble

signed by Sanchez (though they claim they didn't know)...and MI taking over? and this AFTER initial reports of abuse happening with MI?..and now suddenly MI controls the prison?

smells well...rotten to me

Maybe I am just reading something more into but he does look bad,

very odd.

when talking about the pix-as if, so what?? They all know they're screwed..All the world's eyes are on them.

so let's see... refering to the FM regarding Intel...

Starting with the regs... and how innefective these techniques are.

FM 34-52

the book was ignored, or not read, rummy is in deep doodoo, I think they realize it

reprimands... senior officer not getting it done.. why not get rid of them? Send them home... not allow for MI and MP to be blurred, he is GOOD.

Are people going to be convinced of our serioousness if the enlisted personnel who have their hands who get the court martials while the majors all the way to brigadiers essentially get a reprimand and off they go?

For the record second time these statements have been done TODAY... look at rummy

of what he has seen going on.
No saluting, no uniform, not corrective actions.

D, from cali... and she is starting slowly... and she is commending Specialist Darbe...

Hold on for the Nuremberg response on this

before SpC Darbe came forward... look at the body language, and now he is askng to be balied out

trying to cop out and how many times today have we heard 18,000 investigations! He knew, and didn't care..and his pigs sitting alongside him were probably all at his house watching these videos at nite while jerking off! They're passing the buck, as always, and as long as they were getting away w/ it before the pix surfaced, they were safe..Well, didn't they think shit was going to open at all, or when these people came home, IF they come home..Wonder how many families have been emailed the pix and videos and are not saying a word!

You could see it in the exchange, and the response from the Conn Rep, do you understand what I'm saying? and Rummy, I do.

on edit:thanks for the spell-check


failure,.

:D I called her office yesterday :D

Good Job Ellen :D

yes the reports are not to be made public... but she should ask for
copies as Byrd did.

They can be seen by Congress as long as they remain classified above top secret,

And did they try to hide this from the ICRC?

And Hunter did not try to run interference... its over

year"...as if that in any way explains why they didn't address these crimes sooner...

. . . then it suggests that he is incapable of doing his job and we need to find somebody who can. Also, . . . 18,000 suggests that there is something inherently VERY WRONG with our military that needs to be addressed post haste.

TYY

Wow!

Too slow to act.

Is Rummy out now?

Like Nixon, and Reagan...but this is different because everyone in the whole world is getting a glimpse of how utterly dangerous and incompetant these people are.


failure.

here is the question?

never mind he just reeled them in...

Rummy looks scared

in my post above.

I DO NOT FUCKING BELIEVE WHAT I AM HEARING!!!!! These BOZOS never heard about any of this before January???????

Are they fucking kidding??????????????

Drop the Geneva Convention, Commit War Crimes and then SHRUG about it??????

Fuck!!!!

If this doesn't get EVERY democrat off their ass and to the polls in November than I give up on our country!!!!!!!!!




Torture Accomplished

I had to leave for an hr today to have a mammogram..Anyway, I changed the channel of the tv while I waited my turn to continue listening to these hearings..Hillary was just coming up..A retired army nurse was also in the sitting room and began to watch, I said that this is a disgrace, etc..Well, she became louder than loud, saying "that woman there, Hillary, her husband started all this! He showed the younger people that it's alright to do whatever and get away w/ it. They're to blame!" Then she went on and on about Kerry being no good, and the same ole' story that's being spewed around. Well, that did it...Her and I got into it right there in the waiting room while a Viet Nam vet was sitting there, then she started bitching to him..They think this "is war", this happens, nothing wrong, they did this to our people and in the past".

how ignorant SO many people are!!


I vote, does you?

bitch. Those people are truly delusional. Still blaming the Clintons. They all need some mental evaluations and some extensive therapy.

top-secret report, dammit.

I didn't do it. I wasn't even born when that happened. It wasn't me.

Is that a digital camera?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

he's waiting for the DVD to come out.

That the first truthful thing he's said all day.

That's right Rummie. You and your gang are going down because the truth is out.

when he has done nothing but complain about people with digital cameras?



cRummy is whining...pontificating on how good America is (battle hymn of the republic is heard in the background-of my mind, anyway)

"We'll get by this"


it's a bunch of yeah, this is bad...but we're America, dammit!!

"We're going to get through this just fine"

Holy Shit!!!!!

NO ACCOUNTABILITY AT ALL!!!!!!!!


“I is sorry . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .that we got caught!”

duh!

up all those papers like the FAA guy who went to the trouble to destroy that tape into smiterines and dispose in various trash cans! That way, NO evidence. Now you know why pops sealed those records!

we have lots of respect for you and you are a brave man for being here today. Thank you Mr. Rumsfeld for doing a good job.

Haven't we heard enough of this type of bullshit today?

He's the friggin Secretary of Defense.

Everybody else in America has seen these photos before that. Give me a break.

Phil Gingrey???

It isn't just his nose that is shitty brown . . .

Right now would be a great time to make a name for yourself.

and called him on that 18k number....

life is sweet today.

:D :thumbsup:

Did it very professionally and thoroughly. Like this guy.

Just showed his name, it's Kendrick Meek of Florida. He got Rumsfeld's goat but good. Rummy got testy and used that condescending voice he uses to people he considers lesser than himself. Meek was classy and respectful and Rummy looked like an ass.

Duh. Like he's got somewhere else to go.

:eyes:

over and over again...too funny...way to go Congressman! he is on his ass big time. Yahoo!

"Don't tell ME where the troops are."

Want MORE rope, rummy?

but Meeks was a class act.

it's political. Didn't pukey boy get a bit huffy..

Excellent job!

when it got VERY HOT for him

Meeks-Hey, I pray for you but, dang, do you really think you can be effective from this point on?

Whooooooooo he got Rummy on the ropes, what an articulate guy.

Meek just kept pounding. Finally someone cut loose a little. Rummie was pissed off.

This is the real Rummie that the world needs to see.

if the american people let them get away with this, then we deserve everything we get..

failure

none of them take responsibitly

;)

just kidding,.


failure.

:-)

Only taken head breaks and volume is high enough that I can hear

But NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING!!!!!!!!!

He's known for a long time what they've been doing though.


failure


failure,

is a FAILURE! They stole the WH for one reason only..and all these people they appointed are being and have been paid handsomely to cooperate, but now they've been caught. Next.

hold it, he is covering now...

He is also royally PO'ed

GOOD

...Rummy is getting downright scary sounding. "That's all I have to say."

Pretty insensitive comment given that the questioner JUST referred to the Coast Guardsman killed in duty.

....that is if Rummy will give him the floor.

now lets see what Duke Cunningham sayd... a CMH medalwinner, not minor

now lets see if he is setting him up, or he is going to reel him in

gin

to get uppity with Rummy


What a jerk Cunningham is...